OT - Potty training - can it be child-led? (xpost)

Welches wrote:

Cathy Weeks wrote in message
om...

Hi all,
My daughter is almost two, and all of a sudden has started asking to
sit on the potty. She prefers to do it fully clothed, and while one
of her parents are sitting on the toilet, but I figured it was time to
start reading up on the topic.

I don't think it's too early. Dd#1 asked for the potty and I followed her.
She was trained in about a week at 21 months. Would have been quicker I
think if I hadn't gone out on the second day and put her in pull-ups.
She had been asking for the potty for 2-3 months before I thought I'd give
training a try, because she had older friends who used it.

Really not trying to be judgemental...bear with me.
IF your child were asking for books, or climbing toys, would you put
them off for 2-3 months because someone said they may not be ready?
I know, it may be a weird sort of comparison, but if the kid is ASKING
for the potty, or mimicking you at the toilet, could someone please
explain to me why that wouldn't indicate readiness??? And what is the
dread consequense of offering too early? (with books they couldn't read
them for "real" and with climbing toys they may not be able to lift
themselves onto it, but you're alREADY changing diapers... ;-) )

Dawn

(Cathy Weeks) wrote in message . com...

Now, long ago, after watching a family member go through a difficult
potty training, where using the toilet turned into a power struggle
(and as soon as they gave up - she decided to use the toilet), Chris
and I decided that we would let Kivi train herself. When she was
ready, she would ask US to train. The reasons go back further than
that - Chris's mom had a lot of difficulty potty training him, and we
decided that potty training should be child-led.

Cathy,

Go with your instincts - it seems as though she is interested, so just
see where she takes you.

I, OTOH, have a 3 1/2 year old that has never shown any interest
whatsoever in the toilet, potty training, getting out of diapers, etc.
Not interested at all in incentives, rewards, treats, etc. I am not
so sure how long I should "wait" until he demonstrates any desire to
move toward potty training.

Unfortunately for me, it looks like I will have two kids in diapers
for awhile - exactly what I had wanted to avoid!

Sharon
Mom to James 6.2.00
EDD #2 5 December

Are there any good potty training books or resources out there that
follow our philosophy?

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

I don't know about any books with that philosophy as I never read any
at all. I have made plenty of mistakes potty training in my time
though. First was listening to my well-meaning but totally wrong mom
and grandma who insisted I train my dd#1 as soon as she turned 2. Long
story short. Didn't work, we ended up putting it off and she trained
just after 3. Turned out she had a small bladder and wasn't night
trained until after she was 6. Next child trained just after 3
also-he was pretty easy, the next was pushing 4 (that was a
nightmare-I waited too long to encourage him), the next was 2 1/2 and
I'm currently working on my almost 3 year old.
This is what I have figured out in my 10 years of diapers and potty
training. You have a window of time. In that window your child will
have the physical ability to control bowel and bladder but won't yet
have the will to show YOU that they can control it by not using the
toilet when needed. In this time period you can gently encourage your
child to use the toilet and they will run with it, no pushing, no
tears, everyone is happy. Wait too long and the child will see the
toilet as a control issue, too soon and they aren't physically
ready-both scenarios are pure misery for everyone. The trick is
FINDING that window. For my children that has been between 2 1/2 and
3. If you get them at just the right time potty training will be easy.
My $.10 on potty training
K-

"Rosie" wrote in message ...
"Dawn Lawson" :

It's not as big a deal as soooo many people seem to make it.

Why HAS it become such an enormous deal? I can't help wondering who's
funding the research I keep reading about that shows toddlers aren't ready
until they are 2.5-3 years old. It's not Proctor and Gamble is it by any
chance? Or am I too cynical?

Welllll...I can't speak for most people, (and I agree that it has
become a big deal) but for us, there is a history of traumatic potty
training. My husband's mom *still* talks about the time he ran down
the hall with poop falling onto the carpet, and she shudders. Chris
doesn't remember it, but I definitely get the idea that it wasn't a
fun experience.

Top it all off, both my husband and I were bedwetters, and though
that's a different issue, we both grew up with all *those* stories,
and remember it ourselves, too.

My cousin's little girl was also a problem. They read the books, let
her run around naked, and she would hold it for 6 hours, refusing to
use the toilet. She was older at the time - 3 years old. She'd start
to cry and beg for her diaper. It was a total power struggle, and I
told them more than once to just give it up, that she wasn't ready
(emotionally anyway). Eventually they did, and two weeks later, she
asked her mother why she didn't want her to use diapers, and her mom
said "I'm just tired of changing your diapers. But if you want to go
longer, that's ok". She thought it over, and 3 days later asked to
use the potty, and she was trained in something like 3 days. It was
terrible leading up to that, though.

So, I guess I'm a bit hyper-sensitive.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Dawn Lawson wrote in message news:irOub.436983$9l5.295329@pd7tw2no...

My guess is that she's still a bit young for this - she is starting to
show some signs of readiness: She tells me when she poops, and is
asking to be changed (a huge change from 18 months of HATING to be
changed), but she isn't showing other signs - she doesn't hold her pee
consciously as far as I can tell, or even understand the concept of
waiting. My guess is that she's starting to be aware of the function
of the toilet and is copying us. I got the potty out because she
*asked* to poop on the potty (I about fell over in shock!).

Good grief,exactly WHAT would indicate readiness if not all this??? Why
is she too young? Plenty of kids have historically been at least
partially trained by this age.

Well, one of the big ones, is going long periods of time (an hour or
two) while staying dry - like the bladder waits longer before the urge
to go hits, or something. She goes pretty frequently.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:09:18 -0500, "Sophie"
wrote:

Sophie
#4 due 7/18/04

Hey Sophie....I didn't know you were already expecting #4. Congrats!

--Lisabell

In article ,
LisaBell wrote:

Hey Sophie....I didn't know you were already expecting #4. Congrats!

I don't hink I knew either, but I have a terrible memory -- all the best,
Sophie!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Jeez; if only those Ancient Greek storytellers had known about the astonishing
creature that is the *Usenet hydra*: you cut off one head, and *a stupider one*
grows back..." -- MJ, cam.misc

"Dawn Lawson" wrote in message
news:M1Rub.438050$9l5.2367@pd7tw2no...

I know, it may be a weird sort of comparison, but if the kid is ASKING
for the potty, or mimicking you at the toilet, could someone please
explain to me why that wouldn't indicate readiness???


Well, this is an extreme example, but just because DS loves to play with the
food processer pieces (minus the blades) on the kitchen floor, and mimics my
cooking behaviors doesn't mean he's ready to plug the thing in and use it,
or work at the stove. Or when he plays 'baby' does that mean I should let
him start changing DD's diaper?

Kids love to mimic and pretend they're adults. It should be encouraged and
enjoyed up to a point, but it doesn't *necessarily* mean they're ready to
actually do those things. Some kids are ready to start potty training when
they start to mimic, and that's great. Others (like mine) are happy to mimic
a day or two and then just aren't interested anymore. Should I force him to
sit on the potty? Would that make him want to go?

--
Jodi
SAHM to Oliver (2 years, 9 months) & Arwen (7 months)

hobbes wrote:

"Dawn Lawson" wrote in message
news:M1Rub.438050$9l5.2367@pd7tw2no...

I know, it may be a weird sort of comparison, but if the kid is ASKING
for the potty, or mimicking you at the toilet, could someone please
explain to me why that wouldn't indicate readiness???



Well, this is an extreme example, but just because DS loves to play with the
food processer pieces (minus the blades) on the kitchen floor, and mimics my
cooking behaviors doesn't mean he's ready to plug the thing in and use it,
or work at the stove. Or when he plays 'baby' does that mean I should let
him start changing DD's diaper?

Both of those examples have clear dangers associated wtih letting the
child "play" more seriously.
I'm asking why something as innocuous as sitting on the potty is seen as
so potentially damaging a thing to encourage, which it seems to be, as
people ignore the child's requests.

Kids love to mimic and pretend they're adults. It should be encouraged and
enjoyed up to a point, but it doesn't *necessarily* mean they're ready to
actually do those things. Some kids are ready to start potty training when
they start to mimic, and that's great. Others (like mine) are happy to mimic
a day or two and then just aren't interested anymore. Should I force him to
sit on the potty? Would that make him want to go?

Who said anything about forcing...here we go again with the dicotomy of
let the child decide or force them. Can you not see an option?
Encouraging the mimicing, actively including potty behaviour into the
list of things we encourage our kids to learn, like eating with
utensils, playing with toys, looking at books, etc. I don't see that
that sort of thing is unreasonable, traumatic, damaging or ineffective.

What is the problem with "catching" a few pees or poops by the child
playing and mimicking? That's how a LOT of skills are developed, and we
don't discourage a kid from "reading" a book just because they can't
really read and are just muttering in what Rosies mom aptly calls
"scribble talk".

SOME things kids want to do are, in the interest of safety or expense,
obviously best discouraged, but I just have no idea why potty training
is on that list.

Dawn
--
Jodi
SAHM to Oliver (2 years, 9 months) & Arwen (7 months)

(Sharon) wrote in message . com...

Go with your instincts - it seems as though she is interested, so just
see where she takes you.

I, OTOH, have a 3 1/2 year old that has never shown any interest
whatsoever in the toilet, potty training, getting out of diapers, etc.
Not interested at all in incentives, rewards, treats, etc. I am not
so sure how long I should "wait" until he demonstrates any desire to
move toward potty training.

I'm wondering about this, too. Maybe there's a way to put a little
pressure on without turning it into a power struggle. If you come up
with a way, let me know! ;-)

My youngest is 3 and 3 mos. and talks the talk, but won't walk the
walk. He talks about the Big Reward he'll get when he consistently
uses the potty: "I go potty, I wear underwear all the time, I get a
'skateboard.'" (Which will likely be a scooter.) He talks about the
short term rewards: "I take off my diaper, I pee in the potty, I get
M&Ms." He talks about the underwear in his drawer: "I have Batman
underwear like a big boy!"

But when I ask him if he wants to go, he always says no. He doesn't
want to actually *wear* the cool Batman underwear and he always refers
to the last time he sat on the potty and nothing happened: "The pee
won't come out!" I think he figures "the pee won't come out" all the
time, now.

Of course, he runs off and hides when he's pooping and even tells me
that he doesn't want me around for that. He then comes and gets me to
change him...*sigh*

One odd thing, though. My daycare provider told him that he needed to
help her clean his bottom after messy dipes. So she handed him some
wipes, showed him what to do, and now he cleans his bottom (she cleans
up after he "cleans!") We figure the next step is to get him to
understand that it's less of a job if he poops in the potty. So he's
halfway there...we're just starting with a different half.

- Bev