Stay-at-Home Dad Blues

hey there. here's my situation. DD is 1 & DS is 2 1/2.

we enjoy a lot of time playing both indoors and outside, going to
cultural enriching places
like museums, zoos, parks, kids theaters, etc.

however, being that I am usually the only man that participates in
these things, I often feel
quite left out. Most moms don't like to interact so they sort of veer
their children away, or
when I do try to strike up conversation I usually get an almost
patronizing or condescending
response - as though I'm not part of the "club" or something.

I've tried integrating the kids with several groups, but despite their
good nature and behavior,
it never seems to take. I have lots of friends and I am married, so I
can't believe it is only me
and how I approach these activities.

In fact, the other day when a woman's child began bullying my son, I
very firmly told the child
to stop it and explained he was frightening my little boy. The kid
apologized but had an almost
shocked looked upon him. The mother eventually intervened and
basically told the kid that
"he didn't know you were playing chase with him. Let's leave them
alone." and she walked off
with the kid. No apology, no conversation of what happened. nada,

This has been the most difficult part of my transition as a
stay-at-home dad. It's really difficult
for me to find adults to socialize with during the children's activity
times.

I've invited neighbors over for playtime with our kids, I had small
get togethers with creative
activities, etc. Everyone seems to have a grand time, but there's
never any follow up from the
moms of the neighborhood.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong or what I could do
different.

It may just be a case that they actually don't like me - but I find
that the toughest thing to believe.

Any thoughts??

Thanks a bunch ~ SB

"Sonnie B." wrote in message
om...
hey there. here's my situation. DD is 1 & DS is 2 1/2.

we enjoy a lot of time playing both indoors and outside, going to
cultural enriching places
like museums, zoos, parks, kids theaters, etc.

My child is 19 months and I've done similar activities since
I started staying home with her, at around five months of age.
We go to some place like those above pretty much everyday.

however, being that I am usually the only man that participates in
these things, I often feel
quite left out. Most moms don't like to interact so they sort of veer
their children away, or
when I do try to strike up conversation I usually get an almost
patronizing or condescending
response - as though I'm not part of the "club" or something.

I can't say for sure as to why this is, as I've never tried to
strike up a conversation with a parent at such a place. I'm sure
I've made a side comment as it relates to the kid's activities,
but nothing more. No parent has ever veered their kids away
from me (not that I know of, anyway), so that seems a bit odd.
Most parents are mothers, but there are fathers around at times
too, and there are often male adults, as schools and day camps
frequent such places too. Anyway....

I think that a lot of parents stick to those that they came with
in such places. It's not all that unusual, and has more to do with
the comfort level of that parent than anything else. That isn't
something that one can change in a stranger.

I've tried integrating the kids with several groups, but despite their
good nature and behavior,
it never seems to take. I have lots of friends and I am married, so I
can't believe it is only me
and how I approach these activities.

Do any of those friends have kids, and if so, why not them?
I'm sure that many of the parents who travel in packs do so
with friends who also happen to have kids.

This has been the most difficult part of my transition as a
stay-at-home dad. It's really difficult
for me to find adults to socialize with during the children's activity
times.

It used to be a difficulty for me (or perhaps "irritant" would be a
better word) but not so much because I needed socialization, but
because I wanted my child to have it. It irritated me, for example,
that getting together with neighbors was a difficulty, while a female
parent from a few streets down shouted out her name and address
and said "come by anytime you want" to a just-met SAHM who lives
near me, while such a thing would be an impossibility for me.
And it *still* irritates me that parents in my larger neighborhood
drive 5-10 miles away to meet SAHPs who are complete strangers
at a church while there are kids and parents in the neighborhood that
are within a short walk. Anyway.....

At some point (when my kid was 10 months, maybe), I stopped
caring and focused on what I did have. I spent a lot of time with my
kid, did a lot of things, and figured that outside socialization would
come later. In the process, we've built a good relationship. And
some of that socialization has come, as two neighbors with kids
born within the same month of mine have been calling regularly
back and forth for a few months now.

I've invited neighbors over for playtime with our kids, I had small
get togethers with creative
activities, etc. Everyone seems to have a grand time, but there's
never any follow up from the
moms of the neighborhood.

While it would be nice if they did, there isn't anything wrong
with you doing all of the following-up for now. Keep inviting
them every so often, without being aggressive about it. If
the good times continue, they'll eventually follow-up in kind.
Also, if you think that they (or some individuals) would be
confortable with it, ask them if they'd like to meet sometime
at the zoo, park, or one of the other places that you frequent.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong or what I could do
different.

It depends on what your goal is, but if the goal is to create
long-term friends/companions for your child, then I'd start at
the local level (those whom you've invited over), and perhaps
try to branch out into a local parent group (like ones at church),
if you know of any.

Also, with your son being 2.5, it won't be long, if it hasn't
happened already, for him to start taking some type of "class"
or doing a more organized activity, such as swim lessons,
gymnastics (or "tumbling"), or whatever. That's another
occassion to meet people who have similar interests, and is
another way to slowly build a friendship.

It may just be a case that they actually don't like me - but I find
that the toughest thing to believe.

While it might be obvious, it's still worth pointing out that
there is no "they" with regards to motivations. There are many
different reasons in which some might have steered clear of
you, such as: fear of strangers, threatened by men, has a husband
who would be threatened by another man around the house when
he's not there, too busy to bother, already with other friends,
generally disinterested in social intereaction with others (which
is how I often am in public). And there are many other reasons,
some of which might make sense to you, and some not. Trying
to figure out those that fall in the latter category is really an
exercise in futility.

Any thoughts??

They are all above, and I'll clarify/add anything as needed.
But one question -- how long have you been at home with the
kids? I've been at home for 16 months, and I'm wondering how
long you've been at this.


P.
Tierney

Sonnie B. wrote:

: however, being that I am usually the only man that participates in
: these things, I often feel
: quite left out. Most moms don't like to interact so they sort of veer
: their children away, or
: when I do try to strike up conversation I usually get an almost
: patronizing or condescending
: response - as though I'm not part of the "club" or something.

Unfortunately, the bias does exist against SAHDs. I would go out of my
way to talk to SAHDs on the playground because their gender did exclude
them from the club. One of my first close "parent" friends was a SAHD.

What he did was continue to initiate conversations on the playground
until he met SAHMs whom he connected with. He and I would get together
once or twice a weeks for playdates when our kids were toddlers and
although I have moved out of the City, we still keep in touch to this day.

Another thing he to meet friends was to become active in the local public
school board while his daughter was in preschool. He would volunteer his
time for a particular cause and made friends that way, too.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this kind of discrimination. Just
know there are women like me out there who do go out of our way to make
SAHDs feel welcome. You just need to keep trying.

Noreen

"Sonnie B." wrote in message
om...
hey there. here's my situation. DD is 1 & DS is 2 1/2.

we enjoy a lot of time playing both indoors and outside, going to
cultural enriching places
like museums, zoos, parks, kids theaters, etc.

however, being that I am usually the only man that participates in
these things, I often feel
quite left out.

I am sorry this is happening to you! I think it's a wonderful thing for kids
to have their dads as full-time caregivers. But I could totally see where
you'd feel left out ... sometimes it's hard for moms to connect with other
moms, then when you toss in the whole gender thing, it's got to be tough.

Let me second Heidi's excellent advice: find some parent/tot activities,
regularly scheduled at a neutral site. It could be a playgroup, a tumbling
class, a class at the zoo, kindermusik or suchlike, something with the park
district, if you've got one. This would give moms who might have a little
(misplaced) discomfort about SAHDs get to know you, and give your kids a
chance to connect with other kids more than once.

One of my best parent-friends is a SAHD, and we first met at a weekly
gymnastics class.

You might look for groups that aren't necessarily "mom's clubs." In our area
there is Early Childhood PTA and PACES ... maybe there is something similar
where you are. They might have park playgroups and fieldtrips and events.

Good luck. I hope you find something that works.

--
Marnie
--

Sonnie B. wrote:


This has been the most difficult part of my transition as a
stay-at-home dad. It's really difficult
for me to find adults to socialize with during the children's activity
times.

I've invited neighbors over for playtime with our kids, I had small
get togethers with creative
activities, etc. Everyone seems to have a grand time, but there's
never any follow up from the
moms of the neighborhood.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong or what I could do
different.

It may just be a case that they actually don't like me - but I find
that the toughest thing to believe.

Any thoughts??


I think that, sad to say, you probably are encountering
some discrimination because you're a father rather than a mother
and probably for lots of reasons, some of which are harder to
overcome than others. I wouldn't attribute *everything* to
this. Sometimes it's just that two people don't hit it off,
or their kids don't hit it off, or someone just doesn't have
decent social skills, or whatever. Some of these same things
happen even when it's between moms. But I do think it's more
difficult when you're a dad.
In our neighborhood playgroup we have a few dads who
have fit in just fine. My *hunch* is that it's because it's
a family-oriented group where we all know *both* parents in
each family, regardless of which one is the stay at home parent.
It didn't start out that way, but we started having some
evening/weekend activities to get to know the other spouses,
particularly once we were thinking about a babysitting co-op
where either parent could end up doing the babysitting.
For the most part, we see less of the dads, but there are a
couple of stay at home dads and they haven't had trouble
fitting in. Somehow, though, the dynamic seems different
when both parents are known than when just one parent is
known.
So while I don't know if it would succeed in your
situation or not, the one thing I can think to recommend is
to see if you can do a few things where your wife can also
get involved with these other women. Then, once they know
her as well, you become the husband-of-a-woman-we-know rather
than "just" a dad. Obviously, you shouldn't *have* to do
this sort of thing in order to be accepted, but if it helps...

Best wishes,
Ericka

Sonnie B. wrote:

I've invited neighbors over for playtime with our kids, I had small
get togethers with creative
activities, etc. Everyone seems to have a grand time, but there's
never any follow up from the
moms of the neighborhood.

I'm running into the same problem, so I don't think that this is
necessarily because you're a man. I keep trying to organize things,
and other parents (only one dad so far) are enthusiastic at first --
but getting people to follow through can be difficult. I don't think
it's that I have a repellant personality...

Maybe some people are just flakes. I wonder what their kids do all day?

--
Sara, accompanied by the baby barnacle

I check this e-mail account infrequently

"Sonnie B." wrote in message
om...


It may just be a case that they actually don't like me - but I find
that the toughest thing to believe.

There are lots of idiots in the world. (Also, many busy people.) My
SAHD got uninvited to a singalong club because someone was too
inhibited to breast feed around him. Three other women did, and as
usual, all he saw was a baby held up in front of a mother, no booby.
Moms of the neighborhood are all tied up with other worries. We are very
lucky in that someone I knew at work had a baby at about the same time,
and since they are a lesbian couple, SAHD has a open invite to shed some
"man time" on their son. Their nanny is really nice, and loves to get
out of the house, as well, and the GM is a little lonely and also loves
my SO. (An aquaintence who has Biblical disapproval of homosexuality
asked me firmly what I thought of their "lifestyle" being different from
mine, I "innocently" commented on how they were very well to do, and
spent alot of money on furniture and clothes for baby, had baby
baptised, went to church, started with dental appointments at age 3
months, banked cord blood, etc, but that they didn't seem to mind we
were Salvation Army shoppers and had old cars, and they were so nice, I
didn't think of them as snobs...heehee.)
Even if you have to travel some, find people you have something in
common with, profession, level of education, hobby, etc. People's lives
are full, and don't have time for someone new. Something in common is a
shoe in the door.
He also mets lots of people at the Y, and swimming has afforded lots of
chat, but no outside contact. He joined out of loneliness, but baby has
become a star in the pool, brave and capable, and I really saw an
improvement in balance and strength.
Is there a cooperative nursery in your area?
HTH
blacksalt

"Sonnie B." wrote in message
om...
hey there. here's my situation. DD is 1 & DS is 2 1/2.

we enjoy a lot of time playing both indoors and outside, going to
cultural enriching places
like museums, zoos, parks, kids theaters, etc.

however, being that I am usually the only man that participates in
these things, I often feel
quite left out. Most moms don't like to interact so they sort of veer
their children away, or
when I do try to strike up conversation I usually get an almost
patronizing or condescending
response - as though I'm not part of the "club" or something.

I've tried integrating the kids with several groups, but despite their
good nature and behavior,
it never seems to take. I have lots of friends and I am married, so I
can't believe it is only me
and how I approach these activities.

In fact, the other day when a woman's child began bullying my son, I
very firmly told the child
to stop it and explained he was frightening my little boy. The kid
apologized but had an almost
shocked looked upon him. The mother eventually intervened and
basically told the kid that
"he didn't know you were playing chase with him. Let's leave them
alone." and she walked off
with the kid. No apology, no conversation of what happened. nada,

This has been the most difficult part of my transition as a
stay-at-home dad. It's really difficult
for me to find adults to socialize with during the children's activity
times.

I've invited neighbors over for playtime with our kids, I had small
get togethers with creative
activities, etc. Everyone seems to have a grand time, but there's
never any follow up from the
moms of the neighborhood.

I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong or what I could do
different.

It may just be a case that they actually don't like me - but I find
that the toughest thing to believe.

Any thoughts??

Thanks a bunch ~ SB


It may not have anything to do with being a Dad. I used to go to the park
and such when my child was small, and try to strike up conversations and
such. It always fell flatter than a ... Kansas. (Just kidding about the
Kansas part. Anyone here about the crazy Kansas / pancake study.)

S

Sara wrote:


Maybe some people are just flakes. I wonder what their kids do all day?


*Some* people are just flakes?! Honestly, most days
it seems to me that *most* people are flakes! ;-) Getting
people to follow through seems an uphill struggle most of
the time. People don't respond to invitations, and if they
do, they fail to show up. People say they'll help out with
something and then don't show. I have a few friends who
are reliable (thank goodness!), but I know quite a few
people who are otherwise very good friends who just don't
follow through. If I assumed that everyone who didn't
follow through didn't like me, I'd have a complex ;-) I
don't know why it seems like so many people are so bad
at following up on things, but it sure seems commonplace
today.

That said, I do think a lot of the problem (aside
from an apparent lack of true commitment) is that many people
really are very busy, or at least busier than they have the
organizational skills to support. I know there are far more
things I *want* to do with and for the kids than I actually
have time to do, especially certain times of the year. I
just can't believe that there are some people I haven't
been to visit in months (or even nearly a year for some
who live farther away!), even though I've really wanted to
visit them. It seems like the weekends fill up *so*
quickly. It was easier when the kids were home all day
most days because we could do things during the day. Now,
at least for the boys we have to squeeze their things in
on evenings and weekends, which isn't easy even when I
try to relegate as many other things as possible to the
daytime to help make room.

I also think you run into a little issue in that
many SAHPs with the first child take a while before they
run into that "wall" where they're desperate for adult
company. Some people go stir crazy early, but others
seem to be happy staying home for much longer and thus
don't feel that impetus to get out and socialize. Then,
of course, there are the women who won't breastfeed in
public or have other issues with being out (worried about
their child's behavior or their ability to juggle everything)
and who just fine it easier and safer somehow to stay
home. It seems like some don't get out all that much
until they're further down the parenting pike, at which
point you get into the issue with being too busy ;-)

Ultimately, I think quite a few people are so
busy with their own schedules that they really don't
take their kids out a lot for playdates and such. At
least that's true of a number of people I know.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Nevermind wrote:

However, it's important to note that I have never made a friend at a
playground, zoo, swimming pool, etc. I have gotten to know and become
"friendly with" some mothers who I've seen frequently in my
neighborhood playground but never got to the point where we'd arrange
get-togethers. I find that to do so, you need a few different things
to be occurring simultaneously: (1) you and the parent have to "hit it
off", (2) your kids and their kids have to hit it off as well, (3) you
need to accidentally see each other at public places a number of
times, so you can naturally get to know each other a bit before either
of you takes the plunge to attempt to get closer, and (4) you both
have to have the time and need to make a new friend. IME, this can be
a tough combination to achieve. So, don't be too sensitive.


Same here. I very rarely made a friend at a playground or swimming pool
without meeting them through a mutual friend. I'm basically a shy
person and I find it hard to follow through on setting up playdates with
someone I really don't know.

That said, I have befriended SAHDs simply because if they're the ones I
see then they'll be the main parent friend. In one case, not only did
we find ourselves in the same profession, later we found out we were
working at the same place (when we both got jobs).

Jeanne