do people not like holding their babies?

(KC) wrote
I have held her so much, that it took me several days recently to
figure out that the thing she wanted when she kept crying was to be
laid down on her back to play with her feet and toys. Now, when she
cries after all her other needs are met, I set her down on her back
and she is happy.

"She is happy." Isn't that what's it's all about? I can't say how
strongly I disagree with this doctrinaire AP stuff. The point was
supposed to be a happy baby -- no, scratch that: a happy *family*. It
wasn't supposed to be about "baby-wearing" per se.

Anne Rogers wrote in message
I didn't think I was an attachment parent, but now I'm
probably thinking compared to average I am, he's sociable cos people
socialise with him!

What about all the other kids that are sociable too, but have spent time in
a carseat or stroller?

--
Sue
mom to three girls

Then that just goes to show you that there are many ways to parent a child
and the child can actually grow up to be a normal, healthy and very socal
person.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Anne Rogers wrote in message
...
I didn't think I was an attachment parent, but now I'm
probably thinking compared to average I am, he's sociable cos people
socialise with him!

What about all the other kids that are sociable too, but have spent time
in
a carseat or stroller?

there's a flaw in every theory

Dawn wrote,

AND the poor
unfortunate person trying to navigate AROUND one of those monstrous
blockages.

to which (Nevermind) wrote,

Whatever. You sound like a CFer with that.

I agree 100% with Dawn about the obstructiveness of strollers. There have been
times when I could hardly get into our pediatrician's waiting room because
several parents were already parked inside with their enormous mobile-home
strollers. I have never understood why people either couldn't carry their
child the relatively short distance between parking garage and office building,
or at least keep an umbrella stroller in the car to use for the doctor's
office.

You know, just because we obviously disagree with the CF'ers on some
fundamental questions doesn't mean they don't make a valid point now and then.

As far as the rest of the debate about holding/not holding children, all I can
say is that I *personally know* people who seem determined to avoid holding
their children whenever possible, and strollers, swings, bouncy seats, etc. are
all a part of their strategy. Doesn't make those things evil nor does it make
people who use them in moderation uncaring parents. Maybe nobody on this
newsgroup is guilty of such behavior (very likely) but it does exist. I have
seen babies crying endlessly in their bucket seats or strollers while their
parents ignored them. Once I saw what appeared to be a two-month-old drinking
what appeared to be a bottle of kool-aid, propped of course, while strapped
into a bucket seat. A young cousin of mine once left her baby in the swing for
*four hours* while she read a book.

If you really want to see bad parenting in action, just go to Wal-Mart on a
school night at around 10:30 PM.

Mary Ellen
William (8)
Matthew (6)
Margaret (2)

Anne Rogers wrote:
I took ds for jabs today, our surgery has a baby clinic for an hour on a
Monday so the waiting room was full of babies. It didn't occur to me til I
came home that I was the only one actually holding my baby, everyone else
came in with them in a buggy, or a car seat, I'd driven, so when I'd
parked I took him out of the seat, so much easier than unbuckling it and
it's much easier to carry a baby than a huge plastic bucket. In the
waiting room no one picked up their babies til they cried, mine never
cried, he sat on my lap, played with me smiled at the nurses, took
interest in his surroundings and generally got admired by everyone for
being sociable. I didn't think I was an attachment parent, but now I'm
probably thinking compared to average I am, he's sociable cos people
socialise with him!

-----------
Anne Rogers



On a related note, just the other day the NYT had an editorial on the
increasing use of strollers for toddlers (seems like this would apply to
other carries, too)

I've pasted int he full text becuase I'm not sure how long the link wil
be good for.

-Nina



http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/06/op...40f44c7d2ad06f

No Free Ride for Toddlers

September 6, 2003
By WILLIAM CRAIN

In "Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care," Drs. Benjamin Spock
and Steven J. Parker wrote that "when a baby has learned to
walk, it's time to let him out of his carriage or
stroller." Numerous child-development experts, from Dr.
Maria Montessori to Dr. T. Berry Brazelton, agree that the
toddler age - 1 to 3 years - is a time when parents should
encourage their children's urge to move around on their own
and explore.

Today's parents, however, seem bent on keeping their
children strapped in strollers long after they have taken
their first steps. Every day I see stroller after stroller
with children as old as 4 being pushed along, even in
parks. Part shopping cart, part storage bin, these
strollers are quite a sight: some models can be converted
into car seats or pushed while a parent jogs, and many
feature cushy seats, one-hand folding mechanisms, cup
holders and snack trays.

Stroller sales in the United States have been rising over
the last few years, despite the troubled economy and
generally flat birth rates. Why? Unfortunately there is
almost no formal research on the phenomenon, so I recently
conducted a small exploratory study of my own, asking
pediatricians to administer a brief questionnaire to 114
parents in the Upper West Side of Manhattan, suburban
Westchester, the Bronx, Washington, suburban Los Angeles
and St. Louis.

Overall, 95 percent of the parents reported using strollers
for babies under age 1; 94 percent said they used strollers
for 1- or 2-year-olds; 75 percent said they used them for
3-year-olds; and 39 percent said they used strollers for
4-year-olds.

Convenience and safety were the common explanations. One
parent of a 3-year-old said: "I use the stroller when I'm
running errands. I don't have time for him to walk around."
Several parents of 3- and 4-year-olds said they used the
strollers to cover long distances. Some parents with more
than one child said it was easier to use a double stroller
than to supervise one child walking while wheeling the
other.

As a father (and grandfather), I understand the appeal of
strollers as a safety precaution, particularly in big
cities. But keeping children in strollers too long can
suppress their growing sense of freedom and curiosity,
fostering a dispirited sense of compliance that may plague
them for years. (Moreover, strollers themselves can be
dangerous; emergency rooms in the United States report
nearly 13,000 stroller-related injuries a year.)

Toddlerhood is a time when the urges toward independent
movement and exploration emerge with tremendous force.
Toddlers want to be constantly on the move, seeing what
they can find. They want to march along the sidewalk or
across the grass. If they spot something interesting, like
a leaf, insect or puddle of water, they want to stop and
examine it and venture off again. During their excursions,
toddlers often stumble and fall, but they bounce back up
and keep moving. There's too much to investigate to worry
about minor pains. The toddler is a courageous explorer.

As their agility increases at ages 3 and 4, children love
to run, jump, hop and dance. Going down the sidewalk is a
great adventure, and they sometimes sing as they go. Free
movement outdoors stimulates their growing imaginations.

Parents should try to encourage these important moments in
their child's development as much as possible - and they
can, by maintaining an unobtrusive presence. When, for
example, a toddler marches along the sidewalk or the grass,
parents can follow the child's pace, stopping with the
child to examine things. The parent can stay close enough
to intervene if some danger should arise but remain
sufficiently in the background to allow the child to
explore the world on her own.

Sometimes, of course, parents must take active control, as
when they must cope with two children at once or take a
child's hand to cross a street. But on many occasions it's
sufficient to maintain a quiet, watchful presence, giving
the child a chance to move about and make discoveries. This
approach, of course, requires patience - but the rewards
will be well worth the effort.

William Crain, a professor of psychology at City College,
is author of "Reclaiming Childhood: Letting Children Be
Children in Our Achievement-Oriented Society."

I agree 100% with Dawn about the obstructiveness of strollers. There have been
times when I could hardly get into our pediatrician's waiting room because
several parents were already parked inside with their enormous mobile-home
strollers. I have never understood why people either couldn't carry their
child the relatively short distance between parking garage and office building,
or at least keep an umbrella stroller in the car to use for the doctor's
office.

I totally agree, it was partly why I started the thread, I felt totally
crowded in the waiting room with all the various bits of equipment. Had I
walked to the surgery that day, I would have used a stroller, it's 2 miles
and I've got a dodgy back, I would have folded it and left it in the
corner of reception, which is a much bigger room.

I think not carrying a child is a psycological thing in some ways, our son
was very small, initially his car seat drowned him so we only could use it
for short essential trips in the car, it was also the only way for our
buggy at that age, he was too small for our carrier (we didn't have a
sling then), we wanted to take him out to introduce him to some friends
who lived just round the corner, we really weren't sure whether we should
just carry him in our arms, in the end we did, but we did get some funny
looks.

I've pasted int he full text becuase I'm not sure how long the link wil
be good for.

I don't think things are quite so bad here, I got a similar impression
from reading a book set in New York recently (it was about a nanny of a 4
year old, the stroller went everywhere). I can definitely see that a
stroller would be useful sometimes for a slightly older child, perhaps on
a long day out or something, in fact on a recent group trip there were 5
children, my son whom was in his stroller whilst he slept when we got
there, then in a sling, facing out til he needed to sleep, then in, then
nursing whilst we carried on walking round, there were 2 other families,
one with a 2 year old and a newborn, the other with 3 and half year old
twins, the transport was one tandem buggy and 2 cheap very basic
strollers, there was rarely more than 1 child in these 4 seats, the
newborn was mainly carried, the 2 year old thought the best thing was to
push one of the strollers, the twins were quite tired and each spent some
time in the other stroller, the front of the tandem buggy, or on their
dad's shoulders, the back of the tandem buggy served as a very useful
dumping ground for all our picnic paraphenalia. The strollers were useful,
but not confining, each child did plenty of exploring as we wandered
around.

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
I've pasted int he full text becuase I'm not sure how long the
link wil
be good for.

I don't think things are quite so bad here, I got a similar
impression
from reading a book set in New York recently (it was about a nanny
of a 4
year old, the stroller went everywhere). I can definitely see that a
stroller would be useful sometimes for a slightly older child,
perhaps on
a long day out or something, in fact on a recent group trip there
were 5
children, my son whom was in his stroller whilst he slept when we
got
there, then in a sling, facing out til he needed to sleep, then in,
then
nursing whilst we carried on walking round, there were 2 other
families,
one with a 2 year old and a newborn, the other with 3 and half year
old
twins, the transport was one tandem buggy and 2 cheap very basic
strollers, there was rarely more than 1 child in these 4 seats, the
newborn was mainly carried, the 2 year old thought the best thing
was to
push one of the strollers, the twins were quite tired and each spent
some
time in the other stroller, the front of the tandem buggy, or on
their
dad's shoulders, the back of the tandem buggy served as a very
useful
dumping ground for all our picnic paraphenalia. The strollers were
useful,
but not confining, each child did plenty of exploring as we wandered
around.


When we went to Sea World over the summer we took the stroller into
the park with us both days we had tickets for. Bub spent maybe 1/4 of
his time in it. The rest of the time he was being carried by me or DH,
mostly DH because I can't carry his heavy butt for too long because of
my back.
Anyway, we felt he had a better vantage point in one of our arms, hard
for shorty pants to see much if he has to look through a bunch of
grown ups behinds lol He was far more interested in looking at the
exhibits than playing with whatever we brought along for him to play
with while in the stroller. It did serve a great purpose when we went
into the park on the 4th to watch the fireworks....I sat in it with
Nicolas in my lap

Jen

That actually weighs heavily on when we have a second. I always wanted more
that 2 children, but I am not sure I have enough attention to give to DD and
to a new baby, not to mention more.... Don't get me wrong, DD is a
wonderful child, and I love the person she is becoming, but she is a handful
(attention wise, and she is a daredevil!!).

--
Michelle P
Ava Marie July 14, 2002
"Nevermind" wrote in message
om...
"Michelle Podnar" wrote in message
...
I always said that DD was a velcro baby. When she was born, she was not
happy unless I held her (ALL THE TIME), and at first I was a little
exasperated by it (never expected to sleep with my baby, BF until 14
months
(still going strong though) etc...) but instead of fighting with her, I
just
gave her what she needed. Once I did that, parenthood got a lot more
fun,
and a lot smoother.....

I had one like that too, and I also adjusted -- the whole family
learned to adjust to it, and it was a drastic change of life for us.
However, not all babies are like that. My current one is not, and
that's OK by me!!

On 09 Sep 2003 19:42:42 GMT, (DGoree) wrote:

If you really want to see bad parenting in action, just go to Wal-Mart on a
school night at around 10:30 PM.

Is it because the bad parents are out at 10:30 at night? Or is it
because the child is out at 10:30 at night, the parents must be bad?

This actually happened, and I didn't appreciate the judgemental woman.
DD was about 6 months old or so. I decided that I wanted some fake
nails. So I bought some and put them on. My nails hurt me a bit, but
I thought it was the fake nails pulling on my real ones.

DH, DD and I went to bed at a decent hour. At about 2am, I woke up
with my right index finger in massive amount of pain, and it was hot
to the touch. I realized that I must be allergic to the adhensive. I
*had* to get those nails off my hands.

We had no nail polish remover with acetone in it in the house. I
tried to remove the nail without it. During that, DD woke up. I
realized that I was going to have to go out and get some remover. DD
wanted to go with me. I told DH that DD and I were going to a 24 hour
grocery store and why.

We went, and I got the remover. DD was on my hip the whole time, and
she loved being out. She was also well behaved. When I went to the
checkout counter, the check out chick said to my DD (NOT to me),
"Well, shouldn't you be in bed?" Then she looked at me like I was the
worst mother in the world. I said very curtly, "She just woke up, and
she will be going back to bed once we get home."

Got home. Took off the nails. Fed and changed DD. We both went back
to sleep. It still ****ed me off because the check out chick made an
assumption because my DD was awake and out at 2am.

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan
"Boy" EDD 11 Jan 2004
See Jayan: http://jayan.topcities.com/