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#1
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What has hapenned to this group?
Fellow parents:
What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Parents that wanted to be able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. Recently however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. These two people have somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some way, or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or some other thing. They are neither of course. When I first joined this group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate. Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's opinion, however they are totally obtuse. They are so convinced that their own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. If you disagree with them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children. When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. In their world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck, and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Kane has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused when I do so. I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. And this drives them crazy because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of view. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when spanking is the best way to handle the situation. And that I spank my children because I love them and because IT WORKS! I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to anything they say. I am sure they will have something to say about this post but I will not read or respond to it. Not because I am admitting that they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to listen. I encourage others to follow suit. Jeremy J |
#2
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What has hapenned to this group?
Jeremy James wrote: Fellow parents: What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Those you refer to were only part of the group. Nor were they primary except in number. They lacked primacy in argument. Unable to support their view sufficiently to feel they were in like company and comfortable they chose to leave. Parents that wanted to be able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. The World Wide Web is world wide. There are many places within it to find those who make you feel comfortable with your choice. If you wish not to be challenged, then I would suggest another place than this. It was not established for you alone. Recently however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. LaVonne and I argue with each other? Novel Idea. Yes, I can think of a couple of areas worth arging about with LaVonne. Let me see....maybe a discussion of how much damage to humanity the use of corporal punishment has caused. I'd be happy to take the "less" side and offer her the "more" side. But, whichever, it's worth discussing. These two people have somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some way, No, we simply read, experience, think. It's not hard, honest. Then we come to conclusions which we modify over time based on new evidence. Again, thinking. It's not hard, honest. Not for those that practice it regularly. It is apparently very hard for those that have a single view on spanking though and need to adhere to it and seek out only like minded folks to discuss it wiht. Notice that LaVonne and I are not hanging out in a 'anti spanking' environment? or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or some other thing. Well let me see. First let me remove your attempt to ghettoize LaVonne and I into a small group of our own. I am Kane, she is LaVonne, and likely if we explored spanking issues enough we'd find things to debate from different perspectives. She comes from education (among other experiences) and I from mental health, professionall. They are neither of course. Of course. Intellectual ability isn't a prerequisite for thinking. One can do a very workmanlike job of taking you folks apart and exposing your yellow bellies without a lot of intellectual strain. Those that think have that unfair advantage over those that babble jingoistic myth. When I first joined this group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate. No you didn't. You are projecting like mad. The folks in this ng that do not advocate spanking have made it a practice to debate, rather than babble slogans. We are the one's that most go to academia, and share out own experience, two ends of an argument, both valid. The spankers hide. I, personally, and I'll bet LaVonne as well, practiced our nonspanking publically, with never a complaint or a call to CPS by anyone. Fancy that. Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's opinion, however they are totally obtuse. Please give some examples where either of us...no, let's keep this between you and I for the moment, as LV can handle her own debate, give ME some examples where I failed to listen. If it did so, I'd be happy to extend that courtesy to you now, if you'd care to take advantage of it. What I actually saw most often was that the spanker compulsives, upon facing solid evidence, clear and unadulterated logic, simply ran. Babbling as they went out the door, of course. They are so convinced that their own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. Well, that is one possible outcome in debate. And in spanking, since it's hard to call it spanking if it's not, and there are no real gradiations in the term (though there can be in the act...somewhat) one is right, or one is wrong. If you disagree with them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children. No, that is a lie. We have considered and even posted data that deals with spanking that is deemed by the author as non-abusive. We'd hardly use that if we believed all spanking to be "abusive." I certainly have said often enough that there is a line between the two lacking. One cannot tell when one is being abusive and one is not.....and I'd hardly make such a distinction if I believed all and every "spank" was in fact abuse. The issue is unresolved. I suspect it will never be otherwise, since humans are so disparate in the experience of a similar event. What is a tap to one child is horrendous injury to another, and given our capacity for self protection, the latter is more likely to be covered up by the vulnerable child than the former. When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. Asshole! Oh, excuse me, was that a "logical argument" on your part, or an "insult?" I mistakenly took if for the latter, possibly, and responded in kind...the only way I deliberately insult, unless I detect a deliberate lie. You just deliberately lied, sir! It's a habit among the spanked and the spanking compulsive advocates. In their world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck, I have never claimed all spankers are ignorant rednecks. Some are intelligent rednecks. Some are ignorant and not rednecks, and some are damaged beyond their own noting compulsives. and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Nearly everyone (some researchers claim all) has some "latent homesexual[sic] tendencies. So of course your claim could be correct about me, had I made that connection. I did not. As coming from a mental health background I tend not to make those distinctions in child abuse or spanking. Don't assume that because some pedophiles use causing pain as part of their arrousal that I would suggest that you all do, and are thus all pedophiles. Examples are to make a point, not to accuse everyone. The point with masochists is that a great many of them were indeed spanked as children and they themselves identify it with their adult perversion. Kane has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused when I do so. Please refer us to the thread where you think I implied that. Let's see on what I would base such an implication and if you might have deserved it. Or did I ask you questions about it? I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. "Works" is an highly subjective term in the subject of child rearing. Lots of things seem to be something they are not, including successful. I can usually get a horse to jump a ditch by beating him...once. The next time we approach the ditch what do you think the horse might do? Now humans are more complex. and we are soooo much bigger than little children, but they will find a way to "throw" us, now or later, often later. And this drives them crazy Being concerned about the safety and possible injury of children indicates mental illness? Please provide some examples, and a logical explanation of your claim. I've not heard of the "don't hit the children" syndrome before. because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of view. Odd. How is it that spanking compulsives continually assume that "non-spanking" is the only thing an advocate for child rearing in more painless ways is advocating for? In fact, I think I've even posted here about a much broader repertoire being considered. In fact, and I'm sorry you missed the post apparently, I've posted active links to sources for replacing even the need to spank. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when spanking is the best way to handle the situation. That's because in the course of thinking about this issue, and child rearing in general, we have discovered that you are wrong. There is never a time when "spanking is the best way to handle a situation." It's just he way you chose over others that you might either not know about, or have not learn how to do. And that I spank my children because I love them and because IT WORKS! As the word "works" is subjective, "love" is ten times moreso. There is love that is full of concern. Love that is attachment and can be anything from tender to murderous. People use the term "love" rather a lot to mean many things that are quite dissimilar. I presume by your use you wish the best for your children, and regard them highly, and have a tender heart when you think of them. How is it you then hit them? You know somewhere in you, probably going back to that baby you once were that had not been spanked yet, that a hit from a parent can change a child's perception of herself and the universe in ways so profound it amounts to the single flap of a butterfly's wing at the equator that results in tornados in Kansas. Look at our world. There has been a pretty universal use of pain to raise children for a very long time now over a widespread area. Would you say we live in a universally peaceful and prosperous world? Children raised with peace will practice peace. Peace does not, in my version, include hitting or being hit. So I avoid it every chance I get. Especially with children. And I extend it to my words. They too much be kindly, supportive, and gentle or I might cross that very line I caution spanking compulsives about...the one they cannot define, and neither can I, between "discipline" and "abuse." I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to anything they say. Yes, of course. There are a lot of people on my side of this issue that don't bother coming here anymore either. They recognize the paucity of logic, fact, and honesty from you folks. It seems pointless for them to come here, just as it is pointless for the spankers to come here, because the debate is over. Are you unaware of that? Look at the pro-spankers and what they post. Just attacks. Just this silly nonense, which is an attack barely disguised, and on rare occasion already more than adequately refuted and rebutted supports for spanking. Still posting the sad poorly disguised propaganda of Larzerele, that because it's presented in faux academic language is believed by the unwary and uninformed, they have given up on the obvious thugs like Dodson. I am sure they will have something to say about this post but I will not read or respond to it. How ethical. In fact, do you know that you border on slander? Not because I am admitting that they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to listen. I encourage others to follow suit. To whom are you addressing yourself? Outside of two loonies beating upon the hollow heads of each other and themselves, there's no one attempting to post cogent argument here. Or is my newsreader filter working overtime against twits? Jeremy J Jeremy J, whatever makes you feel better. At least it will lower the chances by a hair or two, you getting in a funk and taking it out on your kids. Give them my hearty, Q{} } ho ho ho ho And tell them to run run run as fast as they can from the nutcases that were made by folks like you that did it to you, that did it to them, who did it to them. Tell them to break the cycle. We're pullin' for 'em. You could break the cycle before it's too late, Jeremy J. Want to give it a try? Take a couple of classes, or even one training on non punitive parenting. It will amaze the hell out of you when you find out how mistaken most adults are about their own children and why they do what they do that prompts the parent to spank them. Yer damaged, Jeremy J, and of course you cannot admit your parents did that to you, but you can heal, and keep your kids from becoming abusers. I've never met a child abuser that was not spanked as a child, and it recognized by many of them as the cause of their adult choices. Some even brag about it. Weird, eh. Just ... like ... you. Kane |
#3
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What has hapenned to this group?
That is the nature of the anti-spankig zealotS. They will lie and, when that doesn't work, they will resort to insults. They said their mothers approve of it. ;-) Doan On Fri, 23 Dec 2005, Jeremy James wrote: Fellow parents: What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Parents that wanted to be able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. Recently however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. These two people have somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some way, or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or some other thing. They are neither of course. When I first joined this group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate. Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's opinion, however they are totally obtuse. They are so convinced that their own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. If you disagree with them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children. When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. In their world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck, and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Kane has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused when I do so. I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. And this drives them crazy because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of view. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when spanking is the best way to handle the situation. And that I spank my children because I love them and because IT WORKS! I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to anything they say. I am sure they will have something to say about this post but I will not read or respond to it. Not because I am admitting that they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to listen. I encourage others to follow suit. Jeremy J |
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What has hapenned to this group?
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#5
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What has hapenned to this group?
Dance monkeyboy, dance.
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#6
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What has hapenned to this group?
The "never-spanked" boy got caught lying again; just like his master, the LYING LaVonne. ;-) Doan On 23 Dec 2005 wrote: Dance monkeyboy, dance. |
#7
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What has hapenned to this group?
Jeremy is such a hapless cowardly twit that he has to get an hysterical
screeching dancing lying monkeyboy to come to his rescue: http://groups.google.com/groups?enc_...coring=d&hl=en If you don't think he is an hysterical screeching dancing lying monkeyboy take a look at his long record of just such postings. Sort by relevance Sorted by date What has hapenned to this group? The "never-spanked" boy got caught lying again; just like his master, the LYING LaVonne. ;-) Doan Dance monkeyboy, dance. alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 10:50 pm by Doan - 6 messages - 3 authors Opinion's Lies are a giggle and a hoot! was Is punishment ... Ha! Ha! Ha! The little Kane0 found the study??? Let's see What Chris forgets to tell you is that this same study also looks at non ... alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 9:48 pm by Doan - 15 messages - 5 authors The question no-spanks fear. While many no-spanks are childless, some have children. Although given to bragging about never spanking their kid, they are much ... alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 2:32 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 4 authors Fear and Loathing in the newsgroup alt.parenting.spanking Are you talking about your master, the LYING LaVonne? ;-) Doan What is it that the spanking compulsives fear in this ng? Could it ... alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 2:01 pm by Doan - 2 messages - 2 authors Cisco 2505 configuration questions Have you tried "erase startup-config" and reboot? Doan JW, Thank you for your lead. Could you tell me how to wipe out the whole ... alt.certification.cisco - Dec 20, 3:03 pm by Doan - 11 messages - 8 authors Need advice Still carping your child hatred nitwittery, ****ant? Let's hope you worked your own children over well enough they will remain cowed ... alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 18, 9:04 pm by Doan - 10 messages - 6 authors 1602 not reading startup-config.... Check the config register. Doan Got a problem I haven't had, but hopefully it's an easy one. Client has a Cisco 1602 router. The ... comp.dcom.sys.cisco - Dec 16, 9:54 am by Doan - 3 messages - 2 authors Problems byond the paddle The question is what are the alternative? When you can't control the kids anymore, it will lead to situation like this: http://cbs2 ... alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 15, 8:08 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 4 authors Paddle by proxy The bright ones know how children best learn, grow, and develop. They are able to choose guidance and discipline strategies that ... alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 1, 7:08 pm by Doan - 6 messages - 4 authors But it's da law! " But it's da law!" Not in the US, yet, everywhere. But it's happening in the schools, and Minnesota, and our neighbors, and our compatriots in other lands. ... alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 1, 4:13 pm by Doan - 5 messages - 3 authors And on and on and on for year after year, frustrated at every turn, blatantly lying as to what others and even he has said, that is the strategy of the monkeyboy, including lying about others by claiming they are lying. Go climb back up in your tree, monkeyboy. You'll be safer there to hurl your silly insults and lies. Dance, monkeyboy, dance. |
#9
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What has hapenned to this group?
Jeremy,
I joined this ng in 1995, shortly after it was created. The ng was created for the discussion of corporal punishment and alternative parenting practices. The ng has definitely changed. There was a time when individuals posted with the intent of honest debate. As for Kane and I arguing, this is bunk. We disagree, but this is the point of debate. As far as I can tell, both Kane and I abhor the practice of hitting children in the name of discipline. And if the only way you can discipline an 8 year old daughter and a 3 year old daughter is by hitting their tiny bodies, you need to learn something about child development and parenting. LaVonne Jeremy James wrote: Fellow parents: What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Parents that wanted to be able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. Recently however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. These two people have somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some way, or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or some other thing. They are neither of course. When I first joined this group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate. Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's opinion, however they are totally obtuse. They are so convinced that their own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. If you disagree with them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children. When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. In their world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck, and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Kane has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused when I do so. I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. And this drives them crazy because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of view. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when spanking is the best way to handle the situation. And that I spank my children because I love them and because IT WORKS! I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to anything they say. I am sure they will have something to say about this post but I will not read or respond to it. Not because I am admitting that they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to listen. I encourage others to follow suit. Jeremy J |
#10
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What has hapenned to this group?
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Jeremy, I joined this ng in 1995, shortly after it was created. The ng was created for the discussion of corporal punishment and alternative parenting practices. The ng has definitely changed. There was a time when individuals posted with the intent of honest debate. And then Doan started pointing out the HOLES in the anti-spanking zealotS argument. He started asking me if there are any study where the non-cp alternatives are any better. I can't answer him, especially when he pointed to the fact that even researcher like Gershoff can't find such a study. So I, Lying LaVonne, has to resort to lying and my little pooch, Kane9 -9 = Kane0, hurling insults and vulgarities at anybody who dare to opposed us. You see, I want to the the emperor and tell other parents what to do. However, Doan pointed out that not only that I have no clothe on, but I don't even have a penis! ;-) Doan |
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