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#11
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
On Dec 4, 5:10 pm, Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 4:38 pm, Banty wrote: Do wring said relative's neck. Yes, dissent from progressive orthodoxy must be silenced! Research on problems with day care should be ignored! Your daughter will do just fine. Maybe, but we have no way of knowing that. Just as we have no way of knowing that YOUR judgmentalism and devotion to the cult of *intelligence* won't irreparably harm YOUR kids. Sadly, we have no idea of the effect of most actions that we take with our kids. Give your kid candy? Obesity epidemic. Don't let your kid have candy? I was just talking to someone who described hoarding and hiding food, resulting in lifetime food issues, because she wasn't allowed candy as a kid. We all just have to try to do the best that we can given our own circumstances. Penelope, with your mom leaving, you're definitely going to need some help with the kids. A good daycare program, if one is available, can be an excellent option for you. Given that you have another one at home, though, there are other options, such as a full time in home sitter wtih the older child attending a shorter program out of the home a couple of times a week. Whatever you decide, do your research and remember to go with your gut -- if it seems like there's a problem, act immediately. While we can argue the incremental differences, the simple fact is that most kids who are in a loving environment -- at home with a parent, with a sitter or in a care situation -- thrive. OTOH, kids who are not in a loving and supportive place -- with parents (& I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl about parents!) or with others tend not to thrive to the same degree. Barbara |
#12
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
On Dec 4, 6:24 pm, Barbara wrote:
snip Sadly, we have no idea of the effect of most actions that we take with our kids. Give your kid candy? Obesity epidemic. Don't let your kid have candy? I was just talking to someone who described hoarding and hiding food, resulting in lifetime food issues, because she wasn't allowed candy as a kid. We all just have to try to do the best that we can given our own circumstances. Penelope, with your mom leaving, you're definitely going to need some help with the kids. A good daycare program, if one is available, can be an excellent option for you. Given that you have another one at home, though, there are other options, such as a full time in home sitter wtih the older child attending a shorter program out of the home a couple of times a week. Whatever you decide, do your research and remember to go with your gut -- if it seems like there's a problem, act immediately. While we can argue the incremental differences, the simple fact is that most kids who are in a loving environment -- at home with a parent, with a sitter or in a care situation -- thrive. OTOH, kids who are not in a loving and supportive place -- with parents (& I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl about parents!) or with others tend not to thrive to the same degree. Yes, and Stephanie explained very well how daycare often does *not* provide a loving and supportive place for children. Mothers know and love their children more than anyone else, and their "turnover" is pretty low, thank goodness. I did not tell the OP what to do, but I did mention an article summarizing some research on daycare, which is one thing she asked for. |
#13
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
On Dec 4, 12:24 pm, Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward
wrote: I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less. I know my daughter will benefit tremendously from being around other children in a structured educational setting. She will be in a group of 9 children, who are looked after by 2 teachers and one part-time assistant. I work full-time from home, and have a 9-month old here as well. He will stay with me until he gets a spot at the daycare at 12 months. The relative (whose neck I would love to wring right now) insists a child should be kept at home until age 3. I am doing this because I need to keep my job. Until now I had help from my mother, but she leaves in a few days, after having been with us for six months. Already a huge luxury! What I'd love is to hear some positive stories, and if there's any scientific backing to my relative's claims. There is some scientific backing to the claim that longer hours in daycare (esp 30 hours a week at pre-social ages) has positive cognitive effects and negative behavioral effects. There is a lot of scientific backing that the quality of care matters a great deal. There is no scientific backing to say that you would harm your 22 month old by putting her in daycare unless it's poor-quality daycare that you plan to use for extended hours 5 days a week. As someone else pointed out, much as we'd always love to do the best in every possible way by our children, sometimes "the best" in one area conflicts with "the best" in another area. Sometimes "the best" for one family member would present an undue burden on other members of the family. If keeping your job is important to the well-being of the family, then you do what's best for your children in the context of keeping your job. Anyone who tells you you're harming your child by doing something fairly reasonable is*way* out of line. Children are not that fragile and can thrive in many different environments as long as they have a stable, loving home. I started a job that was 40-80 hours/week and involved frequent overnights away from home when my daughter was 13 months old. It sucked, and it was far from an ideal situation. But I have the utmost confidence that it was the best thing for her, as well as for the rest of us, because now I can work part-time for the rest of her life. If you're deeply conflicted about keeping your job, then re-examine whether or not you need to. If you know you need to, then choose what care for her you feel most comfortable with and know that your nay-saying relative has no divine insight into the truth. Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel and the Bug, 4 years old and something brewing, 4/08 |
#14
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
Stephanie wrote:
You need to keep you job. Been there, done that. But more than any other service you ever pay for, buyer beware. The big challenge is that few people know how to evaluate quality daycare or preschool programs, so many just sort of freeze and don't ask a lot of questions or don't spend some real time in the center to see for themselves how things are going. While I think that it is difficult to *create* a good classroom, it's one of those things that if you only have to *evaluate* it, it's not all that difficult. You may not know precisely what you'd need to do to be a great childcare provider, but you'll know a good situation when you see it if you spend some time there and drop in unannounced on occasion. I'm not sure why people feel so inhibited about asking to see classrooms in action, but that's ultimately what you need to do. It's possible for the childcare providers to try to put on a show for you, but the kids don't lie. You can see from their behavior how things are going. The other negative aspect of full time child care (you did not mention if it would be full time) that I observed when I was in child care myself was that many full time working parents spend so much time getting through the day, get the day done... that they never got to know their children. Families who spent so little time with their children that they could not solve things like eating issues, sleep issues or whatever. They neither spent enough time with their kids to really understand the issue nor did they ahve the will to do what it took to deal. They needed to get so much done in the few hours between pick up and bed... Now I don't mean to claim that this is pervasive. Truth be told, if you are aware of the risk it is likely mitigated easily enough. Absolutely. I've seen working parents in that situation, and other parents working similar hours who are very well connected to their children. I think it has a lot more to do with what you do when you're around. After all, if you couldn't get to know your kids if you weren't around them 24/7, then the traditional father who works outside the home would be completely out of luck! If you tally up the hours, the amount of time a working parent (with something near a 40 hour work week and a reasonable commute) is available to a child (with a reasonable bedtime, etc.) is about the same amount of time that the child is with either the other parent or a childcare provider. It's shorter on the weekdays, but longer on the weekends. There's no reason a working parent can't be plenty available to their children and get to know them and deal with all those issues that come up. It's just a choice. Not every parent elects to put in the time or effort, but by and large, that's not just because of a job! Best of luck. It is a difficult thing to work out. But YOU have the only skills, knowledge, loving care to decide what is right for your family. So keep that confidence with you no matter what you decide. And, frankly, as the saying goes, there's no use crying over spilt milk. If you really do have to work, then you have to work, and obsessing over this sort of thing is one of the most toxic things you can do. Find quality care, tune in to your children, and respond when/if your gut tells you something isn't right. Children are tremendously resilient. As someone who grew up in an extended family setting, I firmly believe that this notion that only parents can give proper, loving care to a child is completely bogus. From time immemorial children have had close bonds with adults other than their parents. There's no reason why a good childcare provider can't be one of those people. The trick is finding that high quality care, but you do the best you can and respond as things unfold. On top of that, if the nosy relative thinks your child shouldn't be in daycare, then said relative can haul her butt over and start providing the care that you need. She's family, after all. If she's so all-fired concerned about it, then perhaps she should do something about it! If not, then she can keep her guilt trips to herself ;-) Best wishes, Ericka |
#15
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward wrote:
I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less. Asking whether daycare is harmful is a lot like asking whether food is harmful. You don't know the answer without knowing a lot more about the situation. There are obvious negatives to things like poor quality daycare, too much daycare, etc. There's not a whole lot of support for the idea that reasonable amounts of high quality daycare is problematic. There were two highly publicized studies that showed some potential behavioral issues, but I think it's also important to look carefully at those studies and not leap to conclusions based on a couple of tidbits. Those were relatively complex situations being looked at, and lots of things going on in them. It's very simplistic to jump to the conclusion that "daycare is harmful" based on those two studies. I think they do give some things to look out for. If I had a shy child, I'd probably look for care that was closer to 1-1 and a place that was very calm, rather than a big center with lots of rambunctious kids. I'd look for ways to keep the number of hours in daycare down. I'd look for high quality. I'd look to balance my life in such a way as to maximize quality interaction with my child while we were together. You're probably already doing all those things. You also have to keep the magnitude of the results of those two studies in context (small overall) and the fact that neither study was designed in such a way as to prove causality. It's not so hard to imagine, for example, that the few children who were predisposed for other reasons to have more behavioral issues were more likely to be in more hours of daycare to begin with! Best wishes, Ericka |
#16
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
On Dec 4, 6:24 pm, Barbara wrote:
Your daughter will do just fine. Maybe, but we have no way of knowing that. Just as we have no way of knowing that YOUR judgmentalism and devotion to the cult of *intelligence* won't irreparably harm YOUR kids. That's a cheap shot. The intelligence researchers I have cited do not lead a "cult", and what I have said on the subject is representative of "Mainstream Science on Intelligence" http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson...mainstream.pdf . |
#17
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
On Dec 4, 6:35 pm, Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 6:24 pm, Barbara wrote: snip Sadly, we have no idea of the effect of most actions that we take with our kids. Give your kid candy? Obesity epidemic. Don't let your kid have candy? I was just talking to someone who described hoarding and hiding food, resulting in lifetime food issues, because she wasn't allowed candy as a kid. We all just have to try to do the best that we can given our own circumstances. Penelope, with your mom leaving, you're definitely going to need some help with the kids. A good daycare program, if one is available, can be an excellent option for you. Given that you have another one at home, though, there are other options, such as a full time in home sitter wtih the older child attending a shorter program out of the home a couple of times a week. Whatever you decide, do your research and remember to go with your gut -- if it seems like there's a problem, act immediately. While we can argue the incremental differences, the simple fact is that most kids who are in a loving environment -- at home with a parent, with a sitter or in a care situation -- thrive. OTOH, kids who are not in a loving and supportive place -- with parents (& I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl about parents!) or with others tend not to thrive to the same degree. Yes, and Stephanie explained very well how daycare often does *not* provide a loving and supportive place for children. No, she listed a couple of terrible things that have happened at bad daycares. She didn't mention the millions of children who are well cared for in day care centers throughout the world. Mothers know and love their children more than anyone else, and their "turnover" is pretty low, thank goodness. Andrea Yates (a SAHM) murdered all 5 of her kids. Marybeth Tinning (also a SAHM AFAIK) apparently killed NINE of her own kids. Susan Smith (a WOHM) killed two. But these are just a few sensational cases. Statistics show that more than 600 children are murdered by their own mothers each year. Now, if we present *that* as the only information, it would suggest that no child should be left alone with his or her mother. But, hey. Let's add in the kids killed by dad. What about the kids sexually abused by dad or by mom's boyfriend. I used to represent abused kids. I represented a 12 year old whose mother had repeatedly raped her and pimped her out to men. A 6 year old who was raped by mom's boyfriend; her 12 year old sister, also raped. Another 12 year old beaten to a pulp by his dad (but not sexually assaulted). It's not a pretty picture. In my own life, I regularly see kids whose parents take them to the park and set them loose with no supervision from the time they can walk. I've had people simply assume that I'm going to care for their kids when they go out, without even checking that I'll be home. A family that gave their 6 year old permission to go to a carnival with me without even meeting me first, or checking that it was OK with me (it wasn't, by the way; the kid and his family simply assumed he could tag along with my kid). I did not tell the OP what to do, but I did mention an article summarizing some research on daycare, which is one thing she asked for.- Hide quoted text - You carefully selected an article that said what you wanted it to say. You deliberately ignored articles that set forth the advantages of daycare. For better or for worse, Penelope needs this job. Unless you intend to start supporting her family, you've done nothing to help her. You've just thrown out a parade of unlikely horribles designed to make her feel bad. Barbara |
#18
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
On Dec 4, 10:38 pm, Barbara wrote:
You carefully selected an article that said what you wanted it to say. Yeah, the New York Times is part of my vast right wing conspiracy. It looks like Ericka and Akuvikate may have joined, since I think they were talking about the same studies as the article. You deliberately ignored articles that set forth the advantages of daycare. For better or for worse, Penelope needs this job. Unless you intend to start supporting her family, you've done nothing to help her. You've just thrown out a parade of unlikely horribles designed to make her feel bad. Stephanie first threw out the "parade of unlikely horribles", and I don't think it was her intention to make the OP feel bad. Barbara |
#19
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward wrote:
What I'd love is to hear some positive stories, and if there's any scientific backing to my relative's claims. The scientific studies go both ways, reflecting the fact that relative differences between home and daycare can go both ways, depending on the quality of the home environment and of the daycare environment. So what really matters is your own answer to this fundamental question: can you obtain daycare of a quality equal to or exceeding the quality of your child's own home environment? When he was your oldest's current age, Monkey Boy was wild to go to daycare where he could play and do all the other fun activities that a good daycare provides. We visited some daycares, and he fit right in and sobbed when it was time for us to leave. If I needed to work full time I would feel quite comfortable putting my kids in one of the better daycares available to me. Or, at least I would feel comfortable trying it. Daycare and preschool are not a concern, compared to the K and 1st grades looming on the horizon. Monkey Boy, now 3.5, is well on his way to reading and writing and I doubt he would do well in any schooling program that uses drills and worksheets and the like. Pologirl 2004 Monkey Boy 2006 Hungry Girl |
#20
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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?
On Dec 4, 2:24 pm, Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward
wrote: I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less. I know my daughter will benefit tremendously from being around other children in a structured educational setting. She will be in a group of 9 children, who are looked after by 2 teachers and one part-time assistant. I work full-time from home, and have a 9-month old here as well. He will stay with me until he gets a spot at the daycare at 12 months. The relative (whose neck I would love to wring right now) insists a child should be kept at home until age 3. I am doing this because I need to keep my job. Until now I had help from my mother, but she leaves in a few days, after having been with us for six months. Already a huge luxury! What I'd love is to hear some positive stories, and if there's any scientific backing to my relative's claims. Probably the only thing I'd worry about is that at this age, she's accustomed to being home with you and the change will be a bit drastic, and may be hard to take at first. That's not necessarily harmful, just may be a bit of a challenge at first. All I can say is my DD loves daycare. Her face lights up when she sees the provider (it's an in home) and she sees her 'friends' there. She gets so excited. it's so cute to watch her play and interact with the other kids. I think she's bored when it's just mommy at home ;-) However, she's been in daycare since 12 weeks, so she got used to it before she really noticed. |
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