Circumcision, yes or no ?

Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the sex
of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right now
we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,
Mel

http://home.mindspring.com/~melis63/babyannouncement/

i would say to do it. i know someone who isnt and they wish there
parents would have done it. plus i think it looks gross but thats just
me. we had our baby circumsised and didnt even cry. plus it was pretty
easy to take care of and only had to do it for a week

http://community.webtv.net/lindo_84/LindysPictures
http://community.webtv.net/lindo_84/NoahsBabyPage

"melis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the
sex
of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right
now
we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,
Mel

This is a very personal decision! My advice to you is to do your research
about the pros and cons of circumcision and base your decision on what you
find. Having said that I will tell you my personal opinion. This is just my
opinion and I totally respect the choices of other as to what they do with
their own children.

If I have a son this time around I will absolutely not get him circumcised.
In Canada it is considered an unnecessary operation and you have to pay (a
few hundred dollars) to get the procedure done. I just don't see the point
in removing a part of a boys penis that he was born with. If men were not
meant to have a foreskin they wouldn't be born with them. (once again JMO!)
I wouldn't feel right about putting my baby through that kind of pain. Some
people believe that babies can't feel the pain or it doesn't matter because
they don't remember the pain. Of course babies are going to feel pain, that
is just ridiculous IMO, and just because someone won't remember pain later
on in life doesn't make it okay to inflict pain upon them.

My DH is circumcised and he was very pro-circumcision with my first
pregnancy. Thank goodness we had a girl ) I have since convinced him that
it is not a necessary procedure and we won't be doing it. The main reason
that turned his opinion is the circumcision rates among baby boys. While in
the US it is still more common to circumcise, it is more uncommon in the
rest of the world. I think the circumcision rates in Canada at the moment
are 20%. So while my DH wanted his son to look like him, he now realizes
that the majority of men are not circumcised.

There is no reason an uncircumcised penis cannot be kept clean. Some people
say that men who are uncircumcised have problems later on. Sure some do but
I'm willing to bet that the numbers are fairly low. A friend of mine said
she got her baby circumcised because her grandpa had to get circumcised at
the age of 80. But once again, I'm betting that doesn't occur very often.

Anyway, once again JMO and it is a very personal decision. I hope I haven't
offended anyone! I'm just thankful I've convinced my husband we won't get it
done should we have a boy this time around.

Nadene
(who is very tired and doesn't have time to re-read this and hope it makes
sense!)

"melis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the
sex of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him
Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right
now we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,
Mel

http://home.mindspring.com/~melis63/babyannouncement/


Here is a page which discusses the pro's and cons
http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcis...ns/article.htm

"melis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the
sex of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him
Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right
now we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,

I would never recommend that it be done, except for medical reasons. If need
be (and sometimes there is a need), it can always be done.

It cannot be *undone*.

It is his body, not yours. He must live the rest of his life with your
choice, if you have him cut (but will have a variety of choices if you do
not). Permanent, essentially cosmetic body alterations should be left to the
individual to choose, or not choose (barring a diagnosed medical problem).

True, with patience and effort, the skin of the shaft can be stretched to
recreate a prepuce to some degree, but some parts of the prepuce can never
be replaced. The frenulum, which is one of the most richly ennervated part
of the penis (that's the little ridgey bit below the 'V' at the base of the
head), is always damaged and sometimes entirely removed during circumcision.
This can never be recovered.

It is not painless, no matter what Lindy tells you. Anaesthetics help some,
but not entirely. It is an awful thing to watch, and I recommend strongly
that you do watch a video of a typical medical circumcision before you
choose to have one performed upon your child. The prepuce is attached to
the head of the penis in infants, and must be torn away (think of tearing
away your fingernail, which is attached in a similar fashion). Then the
tissue is forced back and crushed with a tool. Shortly after that, it is cut
away. How much pain medication would *you* require for this not to hurt you?
Babies cannot be given that much. It's not safe for them. There is a risk
of bleeding (newborns cannot lose more than a teaspoon or two without risk
to their health), of infection, of removing too much and distorting the
penis in later years, of creating skin bridges. There is the risk of
'phantom pain'. There is the unquantifiable emotional impact of rendering
the child absolutely helpless, and *hurting* him over the course of long
minutes.

Here is the article at parentsplace.com:
http://www.parentsplace.com/babies/n...=adid=12304527

Here is a video: http://www.intact.ca/vidphil.htm . If you can stand
watching it (and I recommend you do watch it, and make your husband watch it
too if he can stand it), then maybe you could stand watching such a thing be
done to your own baby. And....if you choose that, I hope you *will* go with
him, and be there for him, rather than handing him off to a nice nurse in
scrubs, who will take him away out of earshot, and bring him back "done".
If you make the choice, I really believe you should be there to see the
results of it.

Sometimes, yes, it does need to be done. My daughter needed 2 stomach
surgeries and a heart surgery. But nobody claimed it didn't hurt, and she
got full anaesthesia for her pain. Why should your child's genitals be any
different?

--angela

MOST BABIES **SCREAM**

Some babies die or get infected and lose their penises - i.e. - they have to
have their penises *totally* amputated - though fortunately death and penile
loss are rare.

"Lindy" wrote in message
...
i would say to do it. i know someone who isnt and they wish there
parents would have done it. plus i think it looks gross but thats just
me. we had our baby circumsised and didnt even cry. plus it was pretty
easy to take care of and only had to do it for a week

http://community.webtv.net/lindo_84/LindysPictures
http://community.webtv.net/lindo_84/NoahsBabyPage


Lindy,

As I noted on the subject line - most babies SCREAM during the amputation.

Babies also scream when they urinate into the wound.

Yet for the longest time, American MDs obtained "informed consent" for the
felony using phony "babies can't feel pain" neurology...

When I pointed out in 1987 American medicine's phony "babies can't feel
pain" neurology, American MD-pediatricians could not admit the fraud because
that would have been admitting a massive crime - so they lied - they said
their "no medical indication" most frequent surgical behavior toward males
suddenly prevented transmission of HIV/AIDS.

When I called for a Jewish exemption from the child abuse laws, the
pediatricians came out against all religious exemptions and for anonymity
for PERPETRATORS of child abuse! (I am not making this up!)

Incidentally, when MDs suddenly declared that partial penis amputation in
infants prevents transmission of HIV/AIDS - there were "no medical
indications" for the grisly surgery - they did so by voice vote ignoring
their own Scientific Board to declare the massive grisly crime "an effective
public health measure."

Did I mention - they IGNORED THEIR OWN SCIENTIFIC
BOARD?

In 2000, when American MD-pediatricians finally admitted that babies CAN
feel pain, they said babies can't VERBALIZE their pain (!) - but said
nothing about using phony "babies can't feel pain" neurology all those
years - as they *repeated* the phony neurology to "explain" why it is hard
to strap a baby down with his legs spread-eagled for the grisly partial
penile amputation.

American MDs are telling similar lies in a lame attempt to cover-up their
routine abdomen and vagina slicing felonies....

See Pediatrician 'ethics' (Attn: Gesundheit et al.)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2908

As usual, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.

As medical students, MDs are TRAINED to perform felonies.

BTW, I also am in favor of an exemption from the child abuse laws for the
ancient Jewish ritual that left most of the foreskin on the penis.

In "Pediatrician 'ethics', URL just cited, I discuss the fact that
pediatricians recently perpetuated the myth that the ancient Jewish ritual
is the same as American medicine's TOTAL infant foreskin amputation.

It is time to end the TOTAL foreskin amputation abomination that is American
medicine's $400 million dollar per year most frequent surgical behavior
toward males.

The mass MD felony should have ended BILLIONS of dollars' worth of infant
foreskin amputations ago - back in 1987 when I pointed out MDs were using
phony "babies can't feel pain" neurology for a "no medical indications"
surgery.

There are STILL no medical indications.

Ending the surgery not only stops the senseless infant
screams - it instantly saves America $400 million and - paradoxically -
PRESERVES the surgery as a CHOICE American males can make for themselves in
adulthood.

The $400 million per year instant savings would likely be permanent.When
Britain stopped paying for infant circumcision - the rate plummeted to
near-zero - and has remained their ever since.

Fortunately, most human females don't mind the look of the natural penis...

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo

"melis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the
sex of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him
Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right
now we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,
Mel

http://home.mindspring.com/~melis63/babyannouncement/

We did not do it to our 2 boys. I can't think of one valid reason to have it
done. Yes my husband is done and he too agreed that he'd rather have his
son's be as nature (or god, or whatever you believe) intended. No confusion
at ALL with our oldest son being different than Daddy (the baby is obviously
too young to notice or care, lol). He knows full well the difference in his
body and he was *appaled* that they actually do that to babies.

It's his body, why not let him make that choice for himself?

Kari
mom to Kaylie, Noah and Xander

I think that video of a baby being circumcised has sealed the deal NOT to
have him circumcised and that's assuming that it will be a boy.
http://www.intact.ca/video.html
"Chotii" wrote in message
...

"melis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the
sex of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him
Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right
now we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,

I would never recommend that it be done, except for medical reasons. If
need be (and sometimes there is a need), it can always be done.

It cannot be *undone*.

It is his body, not yours. He must live the rest of his life with your
choice, if you have him cut (but will have a variety of choices if you do
not). Permanent, essentially cosmetic body alterations should be left to
the individual to choose, or not choose (barring a diagnosed medical
problem).

True, with patience and effort, the skin of the shaft can be stretched to
recreate a prepuce to some degree, but some parts of the prepuce can never
be replaced. The frenulum, which is one of the most richly ennervated
part of the penis (that's the little ridgey bit below the 'V' at the base
of the head), is always damaged and sometimes entirely removed during
circumcision. This can never be recovered.

It is not painless, no matter what Lindy tells you. Anaesthetics help
some, but not entirely. It is an awful thing to watch, and I recommend
strongly that you do watch a video of a typical medical circumcision
before you choose to have one performed upon your child. The prepuce is
attached to the head of the penis in infants, and must be torn away (think
of tearing away your fingernail, which is attached in a similar fashion).
Then the tissue is forced back and crushed with a tool. Shortly after
that, it is cut away. How much pain medication would *you* require for
this not to hurt you? Babies cannot be given that much. It's not safe for
them. There is a risk of bleeding (newborns cannot lose more than a
teaspoon or two without risk to their health), of infection, of removing
too much and distorting the penis in later years, of creating skin
bridges. There is the risk of 'phantom pain'. There is the unquantifiable
emotional impact of rendering the child absolutely helpless, and *hurting*
him over the course of long minutes.

Here is the article at parentsplace.com:
http://www.parentsplace.com/babies/n...=adid=12304527

Here is a video: http://www.intact.ca/vidphil.htm . If you can stand
watching it (and I recommend you do watch it, and make your husband watch
it too if he can stand it), then maybe you could stand watching such a
thing be done to your own baby. And....if you choose that, I hope you
*will* go with him, and be there for him, rather than handing him off to a
nice nurse in scrubs, who will take him away out of earshot, and bring him
back "done". If you make the choice, I really believe you should be there
to see the results of it.

Sometimes, yes, it does need to be done. My daughter needed 2 stomach
surgeries and a heart surgery. But nobody claimed it didn't hurt, and she
got full anaesthesia for her pain. Why should your child's genitals be any
different?

--angela

"melis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the
sex
of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right
now
we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,
Mel

http://home.mindspring.com/~melis63/babyannouncement/



no. my son isn't done.
And only about 5 % of babies born in our state are done.
And even then the doctors and nurses will give you information for and
againest, so you can make a informed choice.
(they never did this with me as I never wanted it done even when I was
pregnant )
The doctors don't make money from doing circumcisions therefore they want
the space and time to do more complex operations that make more money.

You just need to google in this newsgroup and a few others and you will find
heaps of fors or againests.

Goodluck with what you choose.

Nic

On the less popular side of this on the newsgroups.. We had Xavier circed
and he did fine with it. If we had not given up on breastfeeding in the
hospital it would not have been done until he had learned to feed better.
it took about 1/2 an hour because my midwife numbs everything up and she
likes to make sure that the meds have time to work before she gets in there.
The only time he cryed was in the hospital. He NEVER was bothered by
urinating but I plyed TONS of vasoline on it until day 5 when it looked
healed enough. We chose to have it done but if you dont have strong
feelings one way or the other I would say not to have it done. If later you
decide that Circ is important to you then go ahead but it is better to avoid
the guilt of something you can not change then guilt you can.. You can
always have it removed if something goes wrong but you cannt glue it back
on.. KWIM?
We had our midwife do it because she has a good rep. in the hospital for
being the best at it.. so the ease of his healing may have been due to the
skill of the midwife.

Tori
"melis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi, we are expecting in less that 4 weeks and we choose not to know the
sex of our future baby, But If it is a boy - should we have him
Circumcised?
I have not been told of any real advantages of having it done and right
now we are swayed towards not doing it, any thoughts??
thanks,
Mel

http://home.mindspring.com/~melis63/babyannouncement/