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#31
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
Vakker, I explain what alternative practitioners need to do on my web site. I describe in detail what makes for a good case and why. I even indicate how many cases would be needed to spark medical interest.
So don't you dare accuse me of applying a double standard until you have read, and hopefully understood, that. All I ask is the claimants they apply the same standards to their assessment of cases that oncologists do in their phase 1 and Phase ll studies, and apply a bit of system to the gathering of evidence. Also try and understand what I am trying to get across in an as yet unfinished piece on anecdotal evidence. This is also on my web site at ---. http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmo...eranecdote.htm In the meantime try me out with some of these cures that you say I am unjustly rejecting. You seem to think that alternative practitioners are regularly curing patients. I have never seen any evidence of that. All I see is testimonial that is mostly crap, with a few better quality ones that can usually be explained by other influences or mistakes in diagnosis or staging. Spontaneous remissions will certainly explain some, since even on the most conservative estimates there will be half a dozen or more of those occurring every year in the USA alone and some are bound to be in the 50% of cancer patients using alternatives. Peter Moran www.cancerwatcher.com "vakker" wrote in message news:2uhBg.324573$Mn5.94843@pd7tw3no... "Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "vakker" wrote in message news:Cv9Bg.321512$Mn5.162461@pd7tw3no... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... "Vernon" there@atthere wrote in message m... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... What use is freedom of choice when it is based upon lies? I think hardly anyone wants this lad to be forced to have treatment he doesn't want. They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people. Peter Moran You mean the typical medical professional? I challenge you too, Vernon, to find any evidence that the Hoxsey treatment works. I also challenge you to look at the clear evidence showing it doesn't work. Peter Moran vakker~Hey Pete....if you think Vernon should get off his ass to find evidence that the Hoxsey treatments work don't you think oncologists such as yourself should get off your own asses to find out how it is that supposedly terminal cancer patients were cured when they later show up in your, or some other oncologist's office in robust good health when according to yourselves they were supposed to be dead long ago??? PM~Genuine cases like that are far too rare to sustain the claims that are being made for alternative treatments. Cancer is predictable, but not 100% predictable. That is why such isoloated cases are never wholly convincing. If we were seeing cases like that more reguarly we might think again. vakker~But you yourself say that cures have to be proved to you by the claimant(s) and when they are you then say the evidence is doctored or that it was just a rare case of "spontaneous remission" (or chemo or radiation kicking in later) and therefore you wouldn't so much as lift your finger to pick up a phone to learn more about the treatment somebody claims cured them or who else was cured by it. You say they have to prove it to you but how when all you will countenance are studies and reports by conventional meds and big pharma???? Apparently you said you wouldn't so much as lift a finger to find out how it is they got well(it wasn't your job to look for evidence you said) yet here you are asking Vernon to do what you never will and even when good evidence is presented to you (by awthruster as in the Revici case he spoke about) you only deny it. You should also look at the clear evidence showing chemo and radiation don't work very well at all and can be really debilitating and destructive to a human body. Hey.....how about it good buddy? What's good for the goose is good for the gander too.........or is it???? PM I am a doctor and know full well what these can do for (or against) the human body and where they are curative and where they are not. PM I also been looking at everything that alternative medicine can produce for over ten years. I have listened to all the testimonials. I have looked at all the published evidence, and there is a great deal of that. If you have anything extra to show me, please do so. I am always willing to have my opinions challenged. vakker~ and you still maintain that nobody at all was cured by ANY alternative treatment AT ALL????? Not a SINGLE one???? Don't you have just one???? How hard are you looking anyways when you claim all those cured by alternative medicine were just imagining it or didn't really have cancer to begin with???? Peter Moran www.cancerwatcher.com |
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
wrote in message oups.com... After nearly *80 years* of operation why is there not 1 statatistically valid peer reviewed document showing that Hoxsel's treatment worked? If this cure really worked 80% of the time as they claim, this should be easy to prove with just a few year of study. Why did Hoxsel turn to chemo for his prostate cancer when his remedy didn't work? Why won't they allow for a simple review of the treatment records to prove their treatment worked? Eric Actually Eric, that has been done by a group at the University of Texas. It proves that the 80% success rate is an outright lie, and that their patients seem to die at about the same rate as they would without the treatment. I summarise this evidence and give the journal reference here --- http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmo...ve_studies.htm Peter Moran www.cancerwatcher.com |
#33
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
"Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "Vernon" there@atthere wrote in message m... "Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "Vernon" there@atthere wrote in message m... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... "Vernon" there@atthere wrote in message m... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... What use is freedom of choice when it is based upon lies? I think hardly anyone wants this lad to be forced to have treatment he doesn't want. They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people. Peter Moran You mean the typical medical professional? I challenge you too, Vernon, to find any evidence that the Hoxsey treatment works. I also challenge you to look at the clear evidence showing it doesn't work. Peter Moran I never took a side on the Hoxsey. I just said, "You mean the typical medical professional?" In response to, "What use is freedom of choice when it is based upon lies? I think hardly anyone wants this lad to be forced to have treatment he doesn't want. They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people." Note: "They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people" is all too common in the medical field. I think the difference is that doctors who lie and cheat get shamed and run out of town. The villains of alternative medicine get defended with fatuous arguments about freedom of choice.. The only difference between the two is Doctors have highly protective organization within the state governments. Inside the medical feild there is this, "He has a right to his opinion", supported by the governments. They can be proven wrong, over and over, but until the state government says "bad boy or bad girl" NOTHING is done. Give me one example. Also explain how that would excuse any other villain selling useless treatments to seriously ill people. Peter Moran You really don't want an example. Most doctors know and you are obviously not a caring Doctor. I work for a team of Doctors trying to eliminate this stigma as well as help in stats supplements. IF you wanted to know and EVERYONE here knows that you don't give a crap, you would only need to review the hearings of a couple state boards. IF you had any credibility, you would know exactly what I said was too true. You don't care and you don't want to care. You are playing the politics or pharma game and thus are a primary example of what I said. |
#34
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
"Peter Moran" wrote in message ... Vakker, I explain what alternative practitioners need to do on my web site. I describe in detail what makes for a good case and why. I even indicate how many cases would be needed to spark medical interest. So don't you dare accuse me of applying a double standard until you have read, and hopefully understood, that. All I ask is the claimants they apply the same standards to their assessment of cases that oncologists do in their phase 1 and Phase ll studies, and apply a bit of system to the gathering of evidence. Also try and understand what I am trying to get across in an as yet unfinished piece on anecdotal evidence. This is also on my web site at ---. http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmo...eranecdote.htm In the meantime try me out with some of these cures that you say I am unjustly rejecting. You seem to think that alternative practitioners are regularly curing patients. I have never seen any evidence of that. All I see is testimonial that is mostly crap, with a few better quality ones that can usually be explained by other influences or mistakes in diagnosis or staging. Spontaneous remissions will certainly explain some, since even on the most conservative estimates there will be half a dozen or more of those occurring every year in the USA alone and some are bound to be in the 50% of cancer patients using alternatives. Peter Moran www.cancerwatcher.com vakker~So if 300 people showed up before you claiming they were all cured of some specific disease by an alternative treatment you still claim that it's purely anecdotal {explained away by placebo effect and in your words directly above....All I see is testimonial that is mostly crap, with a few better quality ones that can usually be explained by other influences or mistakes in diagnosis or staging.}. You will resolutely maintain in the face of these 300 people that the big pharmaceutical corporations and those they pay to do research have done studies and research showing such treatments to be utterly useless, a money fraud, shysterism, quackery etc and that fools that they are they've never ever had such a disease or got cured by "spontaneous remission" or are just liars for alternative scammers????? Moran.........if you haven't seen any evidence of people being cured of diseases by alternative treatments then you're obviously looking in the wrong places and trusting to the wrong sources!!! The question is....are you doing it on purpose or are you really that gullible??? "vakker" wrote in message news:2uhBg.324573$Mn5.94843@pd7tw3no... "Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "vakker" wrote in message news:Cv9Bg.321512$Mn5.162461@pd7tw3no... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... "Vernon" there@atthere wrote in message m... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... What use is freedom of choice when it is based upon lies? I think hardly anyone wants this lad to be forced to have treatment he doesn't want. They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people. Peter Moran You mean the typical medical professional? I challenge you too, Vernon, to find any evidence that the Hoxsey treatment works. I also challenge you to look at the clear evidence showing it doesn't work. Peter Moran vakker~Hey Pete....if you think Vernon should get off his ass to find evidence that the Hoxsey treatments work don't you think oncologists such as yourself should get off your own asses to find out how it is that supposedly terminal cancer patients were cured when they later show up in your, or some other oncologist's office in robust good health when according to yourselves they were supposed to be dead long ago??? PM~Genuine cases like that are far too rare to sustain the claims that are being made for alternative treatments. Cancer is predictable, but not 100% predictable. That is why such isoloated cases are never wholly convincing. If we were seeing cases like that more reguarly we might think again. vakker~But you yourself say that cures have to be proved to you by the claimant(s) and when they are you then say the evidence is doctored or that it was just a rare case of "spontaneous remission" (or chemo or radiation kicking in later) and therefore you wouldn't so much as lift your finger to pick up a phone to learn more about the treatment somebody claims cured them or who else was cured by it. You say they have to prove it to you but how when all you will countenance are studies and reports by conventional meds and big pharma???? Apparently you said you wouldn't so much as lift a finger to find out how it is they got well(it wasn't your job to look for evidence you said) yet here you are asking Vernon to do what you never will and even when good evidence is presented to you (by awthruster as in the Revici case he spoke about) you only deny it. You should also look at the clear evidence showing chemo and radiation don't work very well at all and can be really debilitating and destructive to a human body. Hey.....how about it good buddy? What's good for the goose is good for the gander too.........or is it???? PM I am a doctor and know full well what these can do for (or against) the human body and where they are curative and where they are not. PM I also been looking at everything that alternative medicine can produce for over ten years. I have listened to all the testimonials. I have looked at all the published evidence, and there is a great deal of that. If you have anything extra to show me, please do so. I am always willing to have my opinions challenged. vakker~ and you still maintain that nobody at all was cured by ANY alternative treatment AT ALL????? Not a SINGLE one???? Don't you have just one???? How hard are you looking anyways when you claim all those cured by alternative medicine were just imagining it or didn't really have cancer to begin with???? Peter Moran www.cancerwatcher.com |
#35
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
wrote in message oups.com... After nearly *80 years* of operation why is there not 1 statatistically valid peer reviewed document showing that Hoxsel's treatment worked? If this cure really worked 80% of the time as they claim, this should be easy to prove with just a few year of study. Peer-reviewed........... Peer -reviewed--by Whom? Why did Hoxsel turn to chemo for his prostate cancer when his remedy didn't work? Already shown. Why won't they allow for a simple review of the treatment records to prove their treatment worked? Eric Already shown it this thread............. I suggest you watch it. http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=106 Back to peer-reviewed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_fraud They do get something right once in a while. Science is still a very strongly career-driven discipline. Suppression/non-publication of data A related issue concerns the deliberate suppression, failure to publish, or selective release of the findings of scientific studies. Such cases may not be strictly definable as scientific misconduct as the deliberate falsification of results is not present. However, in such cases the intent may nevertheless be to deliberately deceive. Studies may be suppressed or remain unpublished because the findings are perceived to undermine the commercial, political or other interests of the sponsoring agent or because they fail to support the ideological goals of the researcher http://www.aaup.org/publications/Aca...JF/02jfgoo.htm Peer review and the acceptance of new scientific ideas (http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/PDF/peerReview.pdf) (Warning: 469 kB PDF) Oh, looky there is has disappeared Big surprise...NOT Btw, CDC reports are NOT peer reviewed. Dr. Waisbren, Sr., a clinical investigator from Milwaukee. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...3286c073be1403 |
#36
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
"Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "Jan Drew" wrote in message ... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... "Jan Drew" wrote in message m... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... "Vernon" there@atthere wrote in message m... "Peter Moran" wrote in message u... What use is freedom of choice when it is based upon lies? I think hardly anyone wants this lad to be forced to have treatment he doesn't want. They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people. Peter Moran You mean the typical medical professional? I challenge you too, Vernon, to find any evidence that the Hoxsey treatment works. I also challenge you to look at the clear evidence showing it doesn't work. Peter Moran YOU were in the same thread--when the clear evidence was posted. Evidently you chose not to watch it. Alternative Cancer Protocols updated http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=106 What clear evidence? Read it and see. Mr. *organized medicine liar*. Jan, repeatedly calling someone a liar is no way to advance debate. I HAVE debated. Sorry, the FACT that you are an *organized medicine liar-- HAS been PROVEN. Cannot you state simply what kind of evidence you are directing me to and what makes it stronger than the evidence I have presented against Hoxsey on my web site? I have found in the past that what you regard as evidence is simply "alternative" promotional material, and not evidence at all.. There is NO need to simply state. The TRUTH is shown. Evidently--YOU choose to ignore it. YOU choose to disregard my evidence. A PROVEN fact. Peter Moran www.cancerwatcher.com Watching ONLY *alternative medicine* Disregarding the FACTS. |
#37
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
NOTHING--absolutely NOTHING beats talking with those who have been there
done--that!! "Ilena Rose" wrote in message ... Note from Ilena Rosenthal: "None are so blind as oncologists who are closeminded about treatments other than their own." EXCERPT: Cherrix said his oncologist refused to monitor his condition while taking the treatment Battling cancer At home and in court BY SHAUN BISHOP TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Sunday, August 6, 2006 Starchild Abraham Cherrix, 16, says a blessing over the vegetable dinner that is part of the Hoxsey treatment he is using to fight Hodgkin's disease. (ALEXA WELCH EDLUND/TIMES-DISPATCH) A year ago, Starchild Abraham Cherrix was diagnosed with cancer. Debilitating chemotherapy treatments failed to eradicate the disease, and now he's fighting for the right to choose his next step. CHINCOTEAGUE Starchild Abraham Cherrix, 16, is used to eating a lot of vegetables, but this one tasted worse than most. He cringed as he ate a white piece of squash and gave his mother, Rose, a grimace. RELATED SLIDESHOW THE HOXSEY TREATMENT Cherrix's Diet Cherrix case breaks ground Kaine says politicians don't have a role in such cases as Cherrix's Judge lifts orders in teen's case McDonnell supports sick teen's request Teen loses bid to pick treatment She shot him a skeptical look, then dug in the veggie-filled refrigerator on which a magnet reads "Never, never, never give up." Soon, the juicer filled the kitchen with a roar and out came a puree of fresh carrots and celery, which Cherrix quickly gulped down. Much better. The food is part of his treatment for Hodgkin's disease, a combination of diet and herbal supplements overseen by the Bio-Medical Clinic in Tijuana, Mexico. Last week, he took a break from another struggle, one waged in court with the Accomack County Department of Social Services. It believes he should undergo conventional cancer treatment instead. "It's nice to finally relax without being tensed up all the time, or even having to talk about your situation," Cherrix said. An Accomack circuit judge ordered a new trial for Aug. 16 to decide whether Cherrix can choose his treatment. The judge threw out a juvenile-court ruling that ordered Cherrix to show up for conventional treatment at Children's Hospital of the Kings Daughters in Norfolk. Local and national media have descended on the family's white, two-story house, which sits next to the bright-yellow, family-run kayak shop on a quiet inlet of the Chesapeake Bay. When the TV show "Nightline" wanted to basically live with the family for an in-depth story, Cherrix's father respectfully declined -- to prevent disruption in the family's life. "I needed some rest, and I knew Abraham did," said his father, Jay, 61. "Really, the important thing is that he gets better." But Jay Cherrix also feels the media has helped expose how the family was being treated by officials. "I think it's a story that will help a lot of people," he said. . . . One recent day, during a lull between two kayak trips he leads at sunset and dusk, Jay Cherrix stretched out on a lawn chair in the shop amid blue and yellow life jackets and kayak paddles. Daughters Lilly, 14, and Bethlehem, 11, quietly watched a western on TV at the check-in counter. A mile away, at their other kayak shop, Rose Cherrix, 47, tended to a few customers and watched the family's other two children, Ezekiel, 7, and Gabriel, 9. At home in his tidy upstairs bedroom, Abraham talked about his academic interests, ranging from astronomy to American Indian culture. His bookcase is packed with an encyclopedia, novels and books on religion. He likes classic comedy ("Bob Hope makes me laugh like crazy") and science-fiction movies, especially "Star Wars." He continues to pursue his other interests -- sketching, kayaking, coin-collecting. Cherrix, who is home-schooled with his siblings, prays before each meal. "Without God, nothing is possible," said his mother. Recently, he said, he has been laying low, "enjoying myself, relaxing and concentrating on getting better." Cherrix has said he has felt great since he started the Hoxsey treatment. He said he never wants to go through chemotherapy again because it made him so weak that he had to be carried into the house after treatments. But he also said the Mexican clinic sometimes uses very low-dose chemotherapy, so he wouldn't rule out its use. He discovered he had cancer about a year ago, he said, and found out in February that the chemotherapy had not eradicated it. His mother favors herbal remedies, and Cherrix began to research other options on the Internet. After reading an article on the Hoxsey treatment in Venture Inward magazine, he contacted the author, Alan Chips, who says the treatment cured his own Hodgkin's lymphoma. Cherrix said he settled on the Hoxsey treatment after talking to other patients who said it cured their cancer. Cherrix said his oncologist refused to monitor his condition while taking the treatment. A spokeswoman at the Norfolk hospital declined to comment, citing federal privacy guidelines. It would have been much easier to send Abraham back for chemotherapy, Jay Cherrix said. "I put him through the wringer on it because I wanted to see how serious he was," he said of his son's decision. "But if you really love somebody and you really, really try to be a good parent, then you're going to try to do whatever is necessary to find the best chance." Cherrix and his father say the kindness and hospitality of the doctors in Mexico, plus the urging from other patients, persuaded them to stick with Hoxsey. "It's an incredibly beautiful atmosphere," his mother said of the clinic. "They hug you, they tell you their story." Cherrix's father estimates the treatment has cost more than $3,000 so far, not including travel and additional supplements bought on the side. Plus, when they are away, the family kayak business sits idle. The American Cancer Society says there is no evidence that Hoxsey is effective in treating cancer. This doesn't bother Cherrix. "It's understandable that some people would doubt this, but for Pete's sake, you can at least say to them, 'Go and do some research, go and do some studying on this' . . . like I did," he said. On a trip to the clinic three weeks ago, tests found that the cancer had not grown or receded, Jay Cherrix said. But doctors said they were encouraged by high white and red blood cell counts that showed the Hoxsey was working, he said. Another visit is planned for next month. http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet...04 5855934842 ~~~~~ www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm#Abraham |
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
Peter Moran wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Peter Moran wrote: What use is freedom of choice when it is based upon lies? I think hardly anyone wants this lad to be forced to have treatment he doesn't want. They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people. Peter Moran Peter's ****ed because he can't take a chunk out. That's what he does (or did), you know...he'd take chunks of a person's body out. Imagine that...treating a metabolic disorder with a knife! They get honor points for seeing who can take out the largest chunk without killing the victim. They even pass around a photo of the handiwork of a Sloan-Kettering monster. That chunkster left the guy on a flat board with wheels to push with his hands 'cuz everything below the waist was thrown away...cut off...no asshole, no buttocks, no penis. In Peter's circle, that's considered a miracle. But when a former lung cancer patient with mets to the bones walk in under his own power with NO CANCER, that makes the likes of Peter suspicious. No kudos for that work...oh no... 'cuz the man still had his buttocks, his penis and his lungs. What kind of gall does it take for a moron like that to speak of frauds and ignorance...his picture should be next to the word in Webster's dictionary. http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmo...eranecdote.htm Thanks for proving my point...you're suspicious when a former metastatic lung cancer patient shows up completely free of cancer...shows up in the office of a board certified radiation oncologist with the largest private radiation oncology practice in the US...this physician with 30-40 years experience had never seen a turn-around like that...ever. So Peter "Chunkster" Moran does what any self respecting crackpot would do...he gets suspicious. |
#40
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The Abraham Cherrix cancer story the media won't print: Harry Hoxsey's cancer cures and the US government campaign to destroy them
"0:-" wrote in message news:TOidneWcwvFyWUvZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@scnresearch. com... wrote: Peter Moran wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Peter Moran wrote: What use is freedom of choice when it is based upon lies? I think hardly anyone wants this lad to be forced to have treatment he doesn't want. They would like him not to be lied to by frauds and ignorant people. Peter Moran Peter's ****ed because he can't take a chunk out. That's what he does (or did), you know...he'd take chunks of a person's body out. Imagine that...treating a metabolic disorder with a knife! They get honor points for seeing who can take out the largest chunk without killing the victim. They even pass around a photo of the handiwork of a Sloan-Kettering monster. That chunkster left the guy on a flat board with wheels to push with his hands 'cuz everything below the waist was thrown away...cut off...no asshole, no buttocks, no penis. In Peter's circle, that's considered a miracle. But when a former lung cancer patient with mets to the bones walk in under his own power with NO CANCER, that makes the likes of Peter suspicious. No kudos for that work...oh no... 'cuz the man still had his buttocks, his penis and his lungs. What kind of gall does it take for a moron like that to speak of frauds and ignorance...his picture should be next to the word in Webster's dictionary. http://members.bordernet.com.au/~pmo...eranecdote.htm Thanks for proving my point...you're suspicious when a former metastatic lung cancer patient shows up completely free of cancer...shows up in the office of a board certified radiation oncologist with the largest private radiation oncology practice in the US...this physician with 30-40 years experience had never seen a turn-around like that...ever. So Peter "Chunkster" Moran does what any self respecting crackpot would do...he gets suspicious.\ No, I would venture he postulates what I do, and is well known, the somewhat rare spontaneous remission. You seem to be ****ing up a rope. Enjoying yourself? 0:- Whaddya know......ya deal the cards and another joker turns up. I'd rather you were a magician. You could make yourself disappear. |
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