I love dogs....I love children

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:



Doan wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:



Doan wrote:

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:



Doan wrote:


First, so much for the claim that I am on your killfile! ;-)

You may not understand how a killfile works. One can take an individual
off a killfile and put the individual back on a killfile. I temporarily
removed yoiur name from my killfile,


LOL! How convenient!

Yes, it is. It's unfortunate that you didn't understand how a killfile
works.


If I am on your killfile, you wouldn't have seen my post!

Of course I would have, if I had removed the block. I removed the
block. I saw your post.

Including all the posts when you had me in your killfile??? ;-)




Second, my reading comprehension is fine. You said that your
parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not?

Where did I say that?


So now you're claiming that you were never spanked???

I didn't claim anything about my childhood. I'm asking you about your
claim above that I will quote "You said that your
parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not?"


Shall I repost from the archive? ;-)

Please do.

Here is just one:

"Did my father refrain from hitting me? What in the world are you
talking about? There was no effort like this when I was growing up. In
the 1950's there was very little protection for children.


As a result of public outcry against hitting and hurting little children
in the name of discipline, even norms in the US are changing. Children
are very slowly being viewed as humans who do not deserve to be hit in
the name of discipline.


My father and I are very close. We have worked this out, and he has
apologized on numerous occasions. He's even talked to one of my
brothers about how he is parenting (yes, this one hits his kids).


Attitudes can change, doan, and they are changing as I write. There
will come a time in this country when you can no longer raise your hand
and hit the body of your little child in the name of discipline."

LIAR! ;-)




If that


is the case, then you can certainly response if you feel that
your parents treated you worse than a dog. For that it what
your post seem to imply about spanking parents.

I don't know how to "certainly response" to something. Perhaps you
understand the phrase better than I.


Certainly! ;-)

If suspect you made a typo here, but I don't know why I would "certainly
response" or certainly respond. I made no claim regarding my parents
and my childhood that needs a response or a respond. You are the
individual that made that claim, and you know nothing of my childhood.


Only what you posted on this newsgroup. ;-)

Let's see it, doan.

Want more? How about you had to be muffled so that you won't cry?




Third, as for the reseach, you claimed to have posted "numerous
times" research where the non-cp alternatives are better than
spanking under the same circumstances. Here is your chance
to prove that you are not a liar. I posted citations from
Gershoff, Baumrind & Larzelere where they said they can't find
such thing. Either you put up or shut up!

I have been on this ng since 1995. If you want the research, go find
it. It is in the archives.


LOL! Once a liar always a liar.

Where is the lie? I haven't been on the ng since 1995? I haven't
posted research? There is no such thing as an archive? Perhaps you
could explain to the rest of us what lie you are accusing me of this time.


The lie is your claim to have posted "numerous times" studies that showed
non-cp alternatives are better than spanking, under the same statistical
analysi. THERE IS NONE! Gershoff can't find any:

You apparently consider yourself good with archives. Go dig up my posts.

I did!


"Baumrind et al. (2002) cited several studies that have found
corporal punishment to be less associated with negative outcomes
than are other discipline techniques. Although this may be true,
just because other techniques are worse than corporal punishment
does not make corporal punishment any better. Until positive
effects are linked with corporal punishment, it should not be
routinely recommended as a method of controlling children. However,
it is important to note that their argument does point to the
need for similar research on all methods of parental discipline, not
just corporal punishment."

Yes, Baumrind said this.

LIAR!

However, this has absolutely nothing to do with my claim to have posted
numerous times, studies that showed non-cp alternatives are better than
sapnking. I'm not debating Baumrind or Gershoff. I'm debating the
statement you are making that I am a liar for stating that I have posted
studies showiong non-cp alternatives are better than spanking. You
consider your self good with archives. Go to the archives of the past
ten years.

Baumrind and Gershoff can't find such studies and you have? STOP LYING!!!




You have misrepreseated research from the time you arrived here. Back
in the kill file you go.

LaVonne


What is "misrepreseated"? And is this a permanetn killfile or just
"temporary"? ;-)

Yes, typos happen, don't they? You have misrepresented research from
the time you arrived here. And my killfile is temporary. Could you
explain a permanent killfile that cannot be changed by the computer
owner and administrator?

LaVonne


I thought I am back in your killfile? DO YOU KNOW WHAT A KILLFILE IS? ;-)

Yes, I do. I left your posts open because you were only engaging in
misrepresentation and not disrespect. When your posts become
disrespectful, I simply put you back in my killfile and block your
posts. I don't deal with disrespect and name calling.

LOL! You just said "back in the kill file you go". Is that a lie too?
;-)

You are already engaging in name-calling and disrespectful behavior.
However, because of your claims regarding archives, I thought I'd wait
to put you back in the killfile and see if you can respond with the
information -- from the archives -- that you claim you have.

I did!

Perhaps you were spanked as a child and didn't learn respect because you
were not respected in your formative years.

Same can be said about you. ;-) So did you feel that your father treated
you worse than a dog when he spanked you?

Doan

LaVonne

Doan


Doan



Doan


On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:




Doan,

I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills.
Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often
do, you totally missed the point of the posing.

I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may
experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your
responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be
responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual
research results that I again question your ability to comprehend
written language.

This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar
difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no
intervention when they were children.

If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension
difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help.

LaVonne

Doan wrote:



On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:





I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming
children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more
cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that
children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and
train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same
individuals to positively parent a human child.


So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog???

Doan

What I see here is the frantic self protection of a child that was
beaten by his parents. Now he has to justify by attacking others, and
protect himself against the truth...that he deserved the parenting he
got.

The difference between you and LaVonne is that she woke up to the
truth, and apparently even confronted her father.

She is twice the human being you are, probably more, monkeyboy.

Your parents did this to you, and you let them, and keep the fantasy
going that you are alright, when it's very apparent by this attack just
how vicious and cruel you are.

I feel very sorry for you. On the other hand, as I used to say to all
the mentally ill boys I worked with that were themselves victims of the
same abuse you suffered, 'the job of healing is yours, regardless of
what was done to you.'

You've refused to heal. How very sad.

Kane

Kane,

I liked your response to doan.

wrote:
What I see here is the frantic self protection of a child that was
beaten by his parents. Now he has to justify by attacking others, and
protect himself against the truth...that he deserved the parenting he
got.

There is often a frantic attempt to protect the way one was parented.
Confronting one's pain, one's childhood, and one's parents can be
frightening. The result is, as you said, "a frantic self protection of
a child beaten by his parents." This can result is the self loathing
that makes the individual believe he deserved how he was treated as a
child.

This self loathing results in lashing out at others in dishonesty, in
name calling, and in general disrespect. For underneath all of this is
rage -- rage against the individuals who mistreated the child. And that
rage must be expressed in ways that are less frightening than soul
searching and confronting one's parents.

The difference between you and LaVonne is that she woke up to the
truth, and apparently even confronted her father.

She is twice the human being you are, probably more, monkeyboy.

I don't know that I'm twice the human being of anyone. We all muddle
through life. I do know that I have never hit, hurt, or shamed a child,
and I know that I never will.

Your parents did this to you, and you let them, and keep the fantasy
going that you are alright, when it's very apparent by this attack just
how vicious and cruel you are.

I suspect doan had no opportunity to learn how to behave differently
towards others. I suspect doan has a limited capability for empathy,
kindness, or understanding. Doan appears to be very frightened and
angry, and is operating in survival mode, any way he can.

I feel very sorry for you. On the other hand, as I used to say to all
the mentally ill boys I worked with that were themselves victims of the
same abuse you suffered, 'the job of healing is yours, regardless of
what was done to you.'

This is true. Blaming one's childhood for one's adult actions is not
healthy. Neither is refusing to engage in self-examination and to heal.
Neither are uncommon reactions.

You've refused to heal. How very sad.

Doan appears to be far too frightened and angry to heal. He has chosen
the path of personal attack for anyone who would dare to challenge
parenting practices that he personally experienced. He's likely a
victim, but has chosen to remain in victim status and attack anyone who
may have changed or believe differently.

I don't like to give up on people, but I find it very unlikely that doan
will change. I'm tired of his lies, his misrepresentation, and his
personal attacks.

There was a time when he frustrated me, and actually hurt me by the way
he responded to me on the ng. I remove him from the kill file every
once in a while, but more and more I realize that there is no sane
reason to do so.

LaVonne

Kane

LOL! LaVonne got caught with a lie and now she is hoping that
her Kane0 will come to her rescue.

Doan


On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Kane,

I liked your response to doan.

wrote:
What I see here is the frantic self protection of a child that was
beaten by his parents. Now he has to justify by attacking others, and
protect himself against the truth...that he deserved the parenting he
got.

There is often a frantic attempt to protect the way one was parented.
Confronting one's pain, one's childhood, and one's parents can be
frightening. The result is, as you said, "a frantic self protection of
a child beaten by his parents." This can result is the self loathing
that makes the individual believe he deserved how he was treated as a
child.

This self loathing results in lashing out at others in dishonesty, in
name calling, and in general disrespect. For underneath all of this is
rage -- rage against the individuals who mistreated the child. And that
rage must be expressed in ways that are less frightening than soul
searching and confronting one's parents.

The difference between you and LaVonne is that she woke up to the
truth, and apparently even confronted her father.

She is twice the human being you are, probably more, monkeyboy.

I don't know that I'm twice the human being of anyone. We all muddle
through life. I do know that I have never hit, hurt, or shamed a child,
and I know that I never will.

Your parents did this to you, and you let them, and keep the fantasy
going that you are alright, when it's very apparent by this attack just
how vicious and cruel you are.

I suspect doan had no opportunity to learn how to behave differently
towards others. I suspect doan has a limited capability for empathy,
kindness, or understanding. Doan appears to be very frightened and
angry, and is operating in survival mode, any way he can.

I feel very sorry for you. On the other hand, as I used to say to all
the mentally ill boys I worked with that were themselves victims of the
same abuse you suffered, 'the job of healing is yours, regardless of
what was done to you.'

This is true. Blaming one's childhood for one's adult actions is not
healthy. Neither is refusing to engage in self-examination and to heal.
Neither are uncommon reactions.

You've refused to heal. How very sad.

Doan appears to be far too frightened and angry to heal. He has chosen
the path of personal attack for anyone who would dare to challenge
parenting practices that he personally experienced. He's likely a
victim, but has chosen to remain in victim status and attack anyone who
may have changed or believe differently.

I don't like to give up on people, but I find it very unlikely that doan
will change. I'm tired of his lies, his misrepresentation, and his
personal attacks.

There was a time when he frustrated me, and actually hurt me by the way
he responded to me on the ng. I remove him from the kill file every
once in a while, but more and more I realize that there is no sane
reason to do so.

LaVonne

Kane