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A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developing brain'



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 23rd 07, 10:43 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
Jeff
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Posts: 1,321
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developingbrain'

bigvince wrote:
...

Jeff as a doctor you know antibiotics are grossly overprescibed. But
many Good Doctors have written volumes about the dangers of this
procedure. Geez Jeff just Google Antibiotics and overprescribed theres
awealth of info there. Hopefully you did not use Ketek for a minor
infection or worse as a 'cover antibiotic' Jeeff it easy to say
antibiotics are over given. Many Good doctors have said exactly that.



Yet, given the information by poster, I am unable to determine if the
antibiotics were properly given.

Jeff
  #22  
Old July 23rd 07, 10:54 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
Peter Bowditch
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Posts: 1,038
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developing brain'

bigvince wrote:

On Jul 22, 2:02 pm, "D." wrote:
many families because of its positive effect on certain children.

I think the scary thing, and the reason for all the alarm about
Ritalin, is that it is over-prescribed. It is the huge numbers of
children who are given this drug WHO SHOULDN"T HAVE BEEN where the
trouble lies.

Dave


When the drug maker designs the tests to determine if a child even has
ADHD a diagonosis purely subjective. You can rest assured that as many
children as possibly will be included . You our correct many children
are given these dangerous drugs 'who shouldn't have been" and this
study says that pratice may cause permanent damage. In light of the
recent studies on the safety and effectiveness of fish oil as an
alternative to these "speed like drugs' any concerned parent would be
wise to reseach this subject. Keep posting your excellant post Good
info based on science not sales Thanks Vince


It's a pity then that the cited omega-3 trial was a blatant sales
promotion exercise by the manufacturer, isn't it?
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
  #23  
Old July 23rd 07, 10:55 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
The One True Zhen Jue
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Posts: 180
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developing brain'

On Jul 23, 3:35 pm, TC wrote:
On Jul 23, 1:34 pm, The One True Zhen Jue

wrote:
On Jul 23, 2:10 pm, TC wrote:


On Jul 23, 12:01 pm, The One True Zhen Jue
wrote:


On Jul 23, 12:20 pm, TC wrote:


On Jul 22, 12:28 pm, The One True Zhen Jue
wrote:


On Jul 22, 10:04 am, bigvince wrote:


A new study states that ""These brain tissue findings revealed
Ritalin-associated changes in four main areas," Dr. Milner says.
"First, we noticed alterations in brain chemicals such as
catecholamines and norepinephrine in the rats' prefrontal cortex - a
part of the mammalian brain responsible for higher executive thinking
and decision-making. There were also significant changes in
catecholamine function in the hippocampus, a center for memory and
learning."


Sounds like these are positive changes, Vince. Wouldn't that be a
total shame if these children were experiencing permanent improvements
as a result of taking Ritalin?


"Sounds like these are positive changes"? Is that a definite enough
assessment of benefit vs risk for you to put your children on these
meds?


Why, of course not! Do you know so little about medical practice that
you would think:


A. That I'd make a definitive assesment from a comment in a usenet
forum
B. That I'd step that far out of my scope of practice and recommend an
Rx med
C. That my kid has a condition like ADHD in the first place


These kids do not develop ADHD, etc. because they lack these meds in
their systems. They develop them from poor diet. Nutrient deficiency
from the time of conception thru their infancy to their present age.


http://www.1stholistic.com/Nutrition...f-symptoms.htm


What about those who are properly nourished? They are the majority of
those with ADHD. Malnutrition is seldom a co-factor in the USA.


Is that right? Malnutrition is seldom a co-factor in the USA? How
would you know that?


Let's look at the bigger picture. In the USA, there has never been
more sickness or more prescriptions or more doctors as there is today.


If you are talking about diseases of over-consumption, you have a
point. Too many Americans are obese, eat too much salt, sugar, &
fat. Many drink too much and exercise too little. The diseases that
result from poor lifestyle choices are NOT the fault of the healthcare
system. It is called choice, whether poor or wise.


I am not talking about OVER consumption. I am talking about
MALNOURISHMENT. Eating nutritionally-deficient highly-processed crap.
It is the fault of the food industry over processing foods to the
point where they are no longer of any useful nutritional value and the
fault of the drug and food industry-owned FDA for letting the food
industry get away with it.


I know that you believe that food has changed to the point of being
nutritionally void. I eat that food and I'm thriving! So are the
majority of the people I know. Its the ones that have the victim
mentality that do not. You know the victim type, the ones that
demonize Aspartame, Splenda, and modern food production in general.



Obesity is a function of eating too many highly refined and oprocessed
foods. And that is what malnourishment means. Malnourishment is
improper nutrition. These highly refined and processed foods contain
very little actual nourishment, you know - vitamins and minerals,
healthy fats, healthy proteins or healthy carbs.


Despite that, very few Americans have malnourishment. Its a disease
of ignorance and/or poverty, but it is still rare. Look at the
freakin' life expectancy in the USA! We live into our 80's on
average!



And that lack of real nourishment in modern processed foods leads to
general malnourishment in the population. Even fruits and vegetables
lack nutrition as a result of the way the are grown, handled, shipped
and stored.


Can you cite something definitive? I'd like to see the data you've
based your decision upon.



We are taught to obsess about quantity of food when the real problem
is not the quantity but the quality. And your post proves that you've
bought into this mindset. The fault lies in the scientists, the
researchers, the doctors, the popular media and the gov't. They all
have bought into this quantity bull**** while ignoring the importance
of quality of food.


TC, you just don't get it. I'm a licensed acupuncturist. I know
various schools of Oriental nutrition, including a few that work very
well! I know far more about nutrition, diet, and eating healthy than
you ever will. Healthy eating has nothing to do with paranoia.




Diabetes, obesity, Chrohns's disease, celiac disease, heart disease,
mental illness. All these diseases are at an all time high. These all
share a common co-factor. Diet and malnourishment. Most people suffer
from not just one but a combination of all these conditions, and the
common co-factor is diet and malnourishment.


Its called over-consumption, not malnourishment. Next, you'll be
claiming scury & rickets are ravaging the general population!


It is not over-consumption. It is the consumption of poor,
nutritionally deficient foods. Sub-clinical cases of scurvy and
rickets are rampant. Doctors do not diagnose them because they aren't
taught to look for nutrition related causes of disease. They look for
what can be treated with pills.


This sounds like the "MCS" of malnutrition. No markers, no real
symptoms, just an assumption that modern life has victimed you. No
evidence, just an assumption that everything is rooted in nutritional
deficiecy. Sad, that.



I had a discussion in this ng with a dentist who claimed to have
treated thousands of patients, many with bleeding or soft gums,
(gingivitis), and in all of his years of treating thousands of
patients he never once saw a single case of vitamin C deficiency. Not
a one. Is that because none of his patients had a vitamin C deficiency
or because he was taught that bleeding gums has to be treated with a
toothbrush and a specific brand of toothpaste? It is absurd to think
that not a single one of his patients has a sub-clinical case of
scurvy.

If your gums are bleeding or soft, you have scurvy.


That is the only possible explanation you can think of? I guess that
explains why medicine is professional science, not a lay-person's
hobby.


Possibly a mild or
very mild case, but you have scurvy nonetheless. If you catch colds
easily, you have scurvy. If you bruise easily and take a long time for
cuts and bruises to heal, you have scurvy. If you suffer from
depression, you may also have scurvy.


If you've been married three times and still have the same in-laws,
you may also have scurvy.
If you think TACO BELL is the Mexican Phone Company, you may also have
scurvy.
If you have a fractured leg, you may also have scurvy.
If you have male pattern baldness, you may also have scurvy.

I get it, you think everyone is Vitamin C deficient. Sorry to
disappoint you, but its a pretty uncommon thing in the USA. Vitamin D
deficiency might be more common; ditto for Calcium & Magnesium.


But interestingly enough, I've never heard of doctors testing for
these vitamin deficiencies, why not?


I've seen it done, but it is rarely indicated and thus rarely done.
Should they be testing for Smallpox as well?




ADHD is a modern disease. What has changed in the last 100 years?
Diet. Processed and manufactured foods. White bread. Polished rice.
Sugars. Soft drinks. High fructose corn syrup. Pasta. Junk food.


No, its been with us all along. It has been more carefully
differentiated than in the past.


Yep, it has. But not in nearly the number of cases as today. We eat
more crap food and we are sicker. That trend is unmistakable and un-
deniable.


Really? If you're right, you should be able to post the trend line
for that. Please do so.




There was no such thing as ADHD when I grew up. Few, if any, of my
classmates in the 1960's and 1970's suffered from anything even
ressembling ADHD. But we ate real bacom and eggs. Real pot roasts and
real potatoes. Soft drinks were a once-a-month treat. Same with
candies and chocolate milk. RTE breakfast cereals were an expensive
treat for those who could afford it, and few of my classmates families
could afford them. We did not have a cupboard full of processed and
manufactured boxed treats to eat from every evening in front of the
TV.


That was hilarious! Dem REAL "bacom and eggs" [sic] kept you from
being ADHD. Yeah, that's what happened. I know kids raised by
parents who've kept them on organic food from day one. These kids
only where organically grown fibers, man! They don't even believe in
fluorescent bulbs or TV! They have a child with ADHD despite this.
Ritalin was demonized to the point where they wouldn't consider it for
two years. They now wish they had considered it earlier. Two years
of his childhood could have been happier and he'd done better in
school, to boot. That's a lot more important than defending alarmist
dogma.


I did not say organic food. I said real food. Eggs contain the best
combination of essential proteins and fats available in a single food.
Bacon contains important essential fats that can only be gotten from
animal sourced foods. Real produce picked fresh from the garden and
taken directly to the table contains the greatest amunts of vitamins
and minerals. Fresh fish. Nutrient rich properly raised beef, pork and
free-range chicken. Real whole unpasteurized milk, cream, butter.
these are extremely nutrient rich foods. And that real nutrition
ensured that none of us suffered from ADHD. None of us needed eye-
glasses in kindergarden. None of use were on multiple serial courses
of anti-biotics for recurring infections (ear infections, etc). We
were all robust and strong physically and mentally.

Most kids today are reared on RTE cereals, mac and cheese, pasteurized
milk, pasta from a box, white bread, soda pop by the half gallon, and
hydrogenized, dead, extremely highly processed vegetables oils and
most of them are under weight or grossly overweight weaklings, wearing
eyeglasses in kindergarden, perpetually sucking on an inhaler, and
suffering from ADHD and assorted other behavioral problems from day
one. That is a modern phenomenon and is a result of modern crap foods.



Yes, I understand you feel victimized by modern agriculture. What
other aspects of modern life concern you? Do you dislike cell phones,
fluorescent lights, dental amalgams, vaccines, & artificial sweetner?




None of the diseases mentioned above exist because of a lack of
prescription drugs in our systems. And none of them are actually cured
with the huge amounts of prescription drug available to us. No one is
being helped. they are only being "treated", and at a very high cost
in terms of dollars and in terms of our health.


No, they were always there. Behavior disorders are more likely to get
diagnosed. More people live in urban areas instead of rural areas, so
reporting is higher. With increase awareness comes increased numbers
of people seeking treatment so that they can live better.


Wrong. They were not ALL there. There were a few cases here and there.
Now it is the norm. I see it every day in schools, in community
sports, at family gatherings, in stores, in malls. The number of
underweight or overweight, eyeglass wearing, wheezaing, mentally
challenged and unstable, intellectually diminished children has
exploded. They used to be the exception, now they are the rule.


Ok, now I think I see where & why you've gone astray. ADHD is nowhere
near as common as you'd like to think; ditto for scurvy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhd

Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is generally
considered to be a developmental disorder, largely neurological in
nature, affecting about 5% of the world's population.[1][2][3][4] The
disorder typically presents itself during childhood, and is
characterized by a persistent pattern of inattention and/or
hyperactivity, as well as forgetfulness, poor impulse control or
impulsivity, and distractibility.[5][6] Although often referred to in
conjunction with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), ADD is, in fact,
not a documented diagnosis, and this common misuse of the terminology
actually refers to ADHD predominantly inattentive type




Just think for a moment. The children in your family. Cousins,
nephews, nieces, grand kids.... are they all physically strong? Are
they all robust? Mentally and physically? Are they quick or are they a
tad slow? (Compare them to when you were growing up.) Or are a few of
them kinda really thin and flacid? Or kinda pudgy and flacid? And do
they have problems sitting there and holding a conversation with them?
Do you have to repeat things to them and find yourself staring at a
blank face that is trying to process what is being said to them? Does
it seem as if what you are saying to them is hitting a brick wall?


One of my cousins graduated Summa Cum Laude from Harvard Medical
School, another was Summa Cum Laude from Harvard Law. Of my many
cousins, only one of us over age 22 did not graduate college. Most
graduated with honors and nearly 2/3 have graduate degrees. Three of
them are marathoners. Some are officers in the military and a couple
are paratroopers in the IDF. In general, they are doing pretty well,
physically & mentally.


Look around you. You will find that a good portion of the population
of children to day have serious problems. These did not manifest
itself because of the lack of pharmacuticals in their little bodies.


I think you've missed the boat completely. This phantom scury plague
has not manifested. ADHD affects ~5% of the population. That
includes adults who grew up eating the same Bacon, Pot Roast, Eggs,
and milk you did. It includes children whose parents feed them well
and those who don't. ADHD doesn't go away because you eat swine, TC.




Anxiety, depression, irritability, emotional, mental impairment,
instability, nervousness, are all symptoms of many individual vitamin
deficiencies and will manifest in cases of general malnourishment.


But our medical doctors weren't taught this in Med School. They were
taught to prescribes meds. In fact, they may only get a basic three
month Intro to Nutrition, if they are lucky.


If you can treat the condition effectively with nutrition, good for
you! Make it happen, captain! If the condition can't be treated with
nutrition, something else is required. Ritalin is used because it
works for a great number of people with this condition. Its been on
the market for several decades and it is safe when taken as directed.
So why get in a tither over it? If you don't want it, by all means,
don't take it.


Ritalin does not work. Like many other drugs all it does is make the
patient feel "different" or it appears to calm them down for a short
period of time therefore you believe that it is doing something. But
at what cost to the long term development of the childs mind and
general health. And why not first try to resolve it with proper diet?


How did you reach this conclusion? It works for about 2 million
people everyday in the USA alone. Proper diet is a great thing.
Sure, get everyone to eat a proper diet, exercise, and see if it gets
better. When it doesn't, you'll blame some obscure food additive,
sweetner, TV show, "toxin du jour", fluorescent lighting, Cell phone
towers, etc.


It has nothing to do with a TV show or fluorescnt lighting or cell
phone towers. Stop putting words in my mouth. I really don't
appreciate that kind of nonsense.


Then quit making up this phantom scurvy plague. That is nonsense,
too.



Listen carefully: It is the QUALITY of the food, or the lack of it.
Feed children and people in general bad nourishment and they will be
sick, physically and mentally. It is that simple.

Feed a plant poor nutrition and it will fail to thrive. Feed ducks
poor nutrition and they will fail to thrive. Feed a dog poor nutrition
and it will fail to thrive. And guess what, feed people poor nutrition
and THEY will FAIL TO THRIVE.


Yes, I understand that malnourishment causes serious problems.
Thankfully, its pretty rare in the USA. Sure, there are a few
exceptions due to ignorance, poverty, and recklessness. It is not
what causes ADHD or we'd see it in ALL famine zones. We'd see it in
all people who are anorexic. We don't.





The first thing that should be addressed is nourishment. I've never
heard of any modern day doctor who has ever even considered
nourishment to treat any case where Ritalin can just as easily be
prescribed. And that is the fatal flaw with moderm allopathic
medicine. People (ie. doctors) who have no concept whatsoever of the
essentiality of nutrients pretending and presuming to treat our
illnesses. Absurd.


It so nice that you are this enlightened! You are a precious national
resource! We must get you to teach in the medical schools because YOU
have absolute certainty that you are right. That's good enough for
me! After all, isn't it perfectly logical to assume that everyone
with ADD or ADHD is malnourished? I mean, isn't that what happens in
famine zones world-wide? Hmmm? What, it doesn't???? Well, TC,
don't let the cognitive dissonance get to you!


I *should* teach in the medical schools, but the food industry and the
pharma industry essentially own the curriculum. Which guarantees that
doctors know nothing about nutrition and the food industry can
continue selling their crap foods, and guarantees that doctors do
nothing but prescribe drugs.


How did you reach that conclusion? MD's do take nutrition in school.
What looney bird told you otherwise?





It does appear, from the article, the neurological changes are
beneficial. Wouldn't that be a total shame if these children were
experiencing permanent improvements as a result of taking Ritalin?
Appearantly, you think so. You'd be angry if it were helping these
children which speaks volumes about your agenda. Children be damned,
you've got your dogma and its "Drugs is alwayz bad"


Drugs *are* always bad when the safer and more common-sensical
alternative treatments are not only not tried but are virtually
unknown by those presuming to treat our illnesses.


No, that's silly. Ritalin has been used for decades with great safety
& success. You shouldn't throw out all that baby because of those few
ounces of bathwater!


Only perceived success and a lot of unknown damage to children. Even
the companies that sell these drugs don't know exactly how they work
and what they do.


This unknown damage has the same phantom-like qualities are your
scurvy epidemic. Where are the injured parties?




My comment stands. You should be ashamed of yourself for wanting to
withhold helpful treatments to children in need.


You should be ashamed of yourself for pushing dangerous and
ineffective chemicals into young developing childrens bodies and being
completely ignorant of the importance of proper nourishment on our
childrens health.


Pushing? How do you figure that? I don't prescribe meds. I'm an
acupuncturist, I dispense herbs if anything. What I do know is that
Ritalin has been prescribed for decades. It has a documented record
of efficacy and safety. That isn't to say that I wouldn't like it to
be even better. Heck, I'm hoping a simple vaccine will be developed,
but who knows if that is even possible...


You advocate the use of these drugs, you are as bad as a street
peddler. Actually worse, because the street peddler recognises that
what he sells is bad ****.


You're a looney, that's what!





Good health is impossible without good nutrition.


Perhaps, but almost all diseases are still possible with good
nutrition.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Actually no. Proper nourishment will completely eradicate diabetes,
obesity, chrohn's and colitis, most heart disease, most cancers and
most mental illness.


I'll agree with you on most obesity and that it will be very important
in most of the diseases you list. Sure, a healthy diet AND exercise
are important. It isn't a panacea. People get sick for a variety of
reasons and malnourishment isn't a significant cause of disease in the
USA. Over consumption _IS_ a significant cause of disease.- Hide quoted text -


NOT OVER CONSUMPTION. It is not general over consumption that is the
problem, it is the over consumption of nutritionallly deficient crap
food and the under consumption of nutritious real food.

Again, you show how you've been conditioned to think. Kinda sad.


No, I'm educated, not paranoid. There is a big difference, the stuff
I believe in doesn't go away if someone doesn't believe in it. Your
belief system requires a bunch of conspiracies, wide-spread scurvy
epidemics, and paranoia of Ritalin.

Sad, that.

  #24  
Old July 23rd 07, 11:07 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
bigvince
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developing brain'

On Jul 23, 5:43 pm, Jeff wrote:
bigvince wrote:

...

Jeff as a doctor you know antibiotics are grossly overprescibed. But
many Good Doctors have written volumes about the dangers of this
procedure. Geez Jeff just Google Antibiotics and overprescribed theres
awealth of info there. Hopefully you did not use Ketek for a minor
infection or worse as a 'cover antibiotic' Jeeff it easy to say
antibiotics are over given. Many Good doctors have said exactly that.


Yet, given the information by poster, I am unable to determine if the
antibiotics were properly given.

Jeff


But the generic comment as to the over use of antibiotics
{ particuliarly newer more dangerous ones] was available to you . Or
you reticent under any circumstances to disapprove of any medical
practice no matter how dangerous.For example would you recommend the
off label use of Ketek. Thanks Vince

  #25  
Old July 23rd 07, 11:08 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
D.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developing brain'

Absolutely not . . . no infection, just a virus. And antibiotics don't
kill viruses. So, my guess is that he knew his patient was "old
school" and wanted a doctor's prescription.

Dave

On Jul 23, 10:02 am, Jeff wrote:
D. wrote:
On Jul 23, 9:20 am, TC wrote:


These kids do not develop ADHD, etc. because they lack these meds in
their systems. They develop them from poor diet. Nutrient deficiency
from the time of conception thru their infancy to their present age.


http://www.1stholistic.com/Nutrition...f-symptoms.htm


Anxiety, depression, irritability, emotional, mental impairment,
instability, nervousness, are all symptoms of many individual vitamin
deficiencies and will manifest in cases of general malnourishment.


But our medical doctors weren't taught this in Med School. They were
taught to prescribes meds. In fact, they may only get a basic three
month Intro to Nutrition, if they are lucky.


Good health is impossible without good nutrition.


That's one of the best, well-rounded and TRUE posts I've read on the
usenet in a long time, good job TC.


My Mom just went to the doctor for a bad cold. She was given
ANTIBIOTICS. Can you believe that? Doctors simply want to write
prescriptions.


Why did the doctor say (s)he was giving prescribing antibiotics?
Perhaps there was a sinus infection or another bacterial infection.

Jeff

Dave



  #26  
Old July 24th 07, 03:32 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developing brain'

On Jul 23, 4:55 pm, The One True Zhen Jue
wrote:

I am not talking about OVER consumption. I am talking about
MALNOURISHMENT. Eating nutritionally-deficient highly-processed crap.
It is the fault of the food industry over processing foods to the
point where they are no longer of any useful nutritional value and the
fault of the drug and food industry-owned FDA for letting the food
industry get away with it.


I know that you believe that food has changed to the point of being
nutritionally void. I eat that food and I'm thriving! So are the
majority of the people I know.


Not all food has changed to that point. But the cheap easily
accessible food has. It may be that you prefer and can afford the
healthier stuff. But many people eat crap day in and day out. Do you
drink soft drinks daily? Do you eat RTE cereal every morning? Do you
eat a lot of pasta? Maybe you are dodging the bullet by pure chance.

But most people who are obese, have metabolic syndrome, diabetes or
mental issues, do have poor diets. They go hand in hand. You may
believe otherwise, but that is you prerogative.

Its the ones that have the victim
mentality that do not. You know the victim type, the ones that
demonize Aspartame, Splenda, and modern food production in general.



Blame the victim, eh? Well I know a lot of "victims" that don't play
the victim game at all, yet, their health has taken a quick downturn
early in life, mostly due to diet.

And I've said NOTHING about aspartame and splenda. Why do you nutbars
insist on putting words in my mouth?

The simple fact is that most modern processed pre-prepared foods in
the grocery store today are bereft of nutrition as a direct result of
the processing. And fruits and vegetables are grown on relatively poor
soils, and spend a lot of time in transit and in storage thus losing
much of their water soluble vitamins.




Obesity is a function of eating too many highly refined and oprocessed
foods. And that is what malnourishment means. Malnourishment is
improper nutrition. These highly refined and processed foods contain
very little actual nourishment, you know - vitamins and minerals,
healthy fats, healthy proteins or healthy carbs.


Despite that, very few Americans have malnourishment. Its a disease
of ignorance and/or poverty, but it is still rare. Look at the
freakin' life expectancy in the USA! We live into our 80's on
average!


Malnourishment is not a disease. It is a nutritional state. It results
in disease. And the vast majority of people that suffer from
malnourishment do so while following the populsr advice of the
mainstream medical establishment by eating copious amounts of
nutritionally deficient grain based processed foods and limitting
healthy animal sourced foods. Less fat and more carbs, right? The life
expectancy in the US of A is not what you think. You guys are 45th in
the list of countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

And if you guys have the best medical doctors and the best medical
system and the most knowledgeable experts in health, then what the
hell is the problem. Could it that the advice they are giving you and
the foods you are eating aren't all its cracked uo to be?





And that lack of real nourishment in modern processed foods leads to
general malnourishment in the population. Even fruits and vegetables
lack nutrition as a result of the way the are grown, handled, shipped
and stored.


Can you cite something definitive? I'd like to see the data you've
based your decision upon.


http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Check any food you want to. Compare fresh meats to refined grains.
Compare fresh produce to frozen and dried and processed.

Read the labels on boxed crap and compare them to their fresh
equivalent.

Read about how water soluble vitamins degrade in food when exposed to
heat and when in storage over time.

Read about the use of fertilizers versus crop rotation and their
effects on the nutritional content of the agricultural commodities.

Understanding what affects the quality of foods should be something we
all educate ourselves on.




We are taught to obsess about quantity of food when the real problem
is not the quantity but the quality. And your post proves that you've
bought into this mindset. The fault lies in the scientists, the
researchers, the doctors, the popular media and the gov't. They all
have bought into this quantity bull**** while ignoring the importance
of quality of food.


TC, you just don't get it. I'm a licensed acupuncturist. I know
various schools of Oriental nutrition, including a few that work very
well! I know far more about nutrition, diet, and eating healthy than
you ever will. Healthy eating has nothing to do with paranoia.


BFD. If you fail to appreciate the fundamental concept of the
essentiality of food quality to nutrition and the importance of
nutrition to overall health, then your citing a mystical oriental
knowledge and expertise in oriental nutrition falls far short of
impressing anyone.






Diabetes, obesity, Chrohns's disease, celiac disease, heart disease,
mental illness. All these diseases are at an all time high. These all
share a common co-factor. Diet and malnourishment. Most people suffer
from not just one but a combination of all these conditions, and the
common co-factor is diet and malnourishment.


Its called over-consumption, not malnourishment. Next, you'll be
claiming scury & rickets are ravaging the general population!


It is not over-consumption. It is the consumption of poor,
nutritionally deficient foods. Sub-clinical cases of scurvy and
rickets are rampant. Doctors do not diagnose them because they aren't
taught to look for nutrition related causes of disease. They look for
what can be treated with pills.


This sounds like the "MCS" of malnutrition. No markers, no real
symptoms, just an assumption that modern life has victimed you. No
evidence, just an assumption that everything is rooted in nutritional
deficiecy. Sad, that.


It hasn't victimized me because I haven't let it. But most people are
more than willing to accept what doctors say about nutrition. Which is
not much.

And I HAVE NOT SAID that EVERYTHING is rooted in nutritional
deficiency. Stop ****ing putting words in my mouth and go read what
the **** I said. If you can't read English go someplace else and spout
your bull****.




I had a discussion in this ng with a dentist who claimed to have
treated thousands of patients, many with bleeding or soft gums,
(gingivitis), and in all of his years of treating thousands of
patients he never once saw a single case of vitamin C deficiency. Not
a one. Is that because none of his patients had a vitamin C deficiency
or because he was taught that bleeding gums has to be treated with a
toothbrush and a specific brand of toothpaste? It is absurd to think
that not a single one of his patients has a sub-clinical case of
scurvy.


If your gums are bleeding or soft, you have scurvy.


That is the only possible explanation you can think of? I guess that
explains why medicine is professional science, not a lay-person's
hobby.


Again, you incorrectly paraphrase what I said. I am not saying that it
is the only reason, I am saying that allopaths invariably refuses to
even consider malnourishment as a possibility. that is the exact
opposite of what you suggest I am saying. Look, if you have that much
trouble with the language, go elsewhere.


Possibly a mild or
very mild case, but you have scurvy nonetheless. If you catch colds
easily, you have scurvy. If you bruise easily and take a long time for
cuts and bruises to heal, you have scurvy. If you suffer from
depression, you may also have scurvy.


If you've been married three times and still have the same in-laws,
you may also have scurvy.
If you think TACO BELL is the Mexican Phone Company, you may also have
scurvy.
If you have a fractured leg, you may also have scurvy.
If you have male pattern baldness, you may also have scurvy.


Now you are being a flippant prick. Go educate yourself on the actual
science of nutritional deficiency. It is in the scientific record.
Moron.

Enough of this nonsense. If I want to argue a stupid moronic prick, I
call my older brother.


I get it, you think everyone is Vitamin C deficient. Sorry to
disappoint you, but its a pretty uncommon thing in the USA. Vitamin D
deficiency might be more common; ditto for Calcium & Magnesium.



But interestingly enough, I've never heard of doctors testing for
these vitamin deficiencies, why not?


I've seen it done, but it is rarely indicated and thus rarely done.
Should they be testing for Smallpox as well?



ADHD is a modern disease. What has changed in the last 100 years?
Diet. Processed and manufactured foods. White bread. Polished rice.
Sugars. Soft drinks. High fructose corn syrup. Pasta. Junk food.


No, its been with us all along. It has been more carefully
differentiated than in the past.


Yep, it has. But not in nearly the number of cases as today. We eat
more crap food and we are sicker. That trend is unmistakable and un-
deniable.


Really? If you're right, you should be able to post the trend line
for that. Please do so.



There was no such thing as ADHD when I grew up. Few, if any, of my
classmates in the 1960's and 1970's suffered from anything even
ressembling ADHD. But we ate real bacom and eggs. Real pot roasts and
real potatoes. Soft drinks were a once-a-month treat. Same with
candies and chocolate milk. RTE breakfast cereals were an expensive
treat for those who could afford it, and few of my classmates families
could afford them. We did not have a cupboard full of processed and
manufactured boxed treats to eat from every evening in front of the
TV.


That was hilarious! Dem REAL "bacom and eggs" [sic] kept you from
being ADHD. Yeah, that's what happened. I know kids raised by
parents who've kept them on organic food from day one. These kids
only where organically grown fibers, man! They don't even believe in
fluorescent bulbs or TV! They have a child with ADHD despite this.
Ritalin was demonized to the point where they wouldn't consider it for
two years. They now wish they had considered it earlier. Two years
of his childhood could have been happier and he'd done better in
school, to boot. That's a lot more important than defending alarmist
dogma.


I did not say organic food. I said real food. Eggs contain the best
combination of essential proteins and fats available in a single food.
Bacon contains important essential fats that can only be gotten from
animal sourced


...

read more »



  #27  
Old July 24th 07, 04:23 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
Mark Probert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,876
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developingbrain'

bigvince wrote:
On Jul 22, 2:02 pm, "D." wrote:
many families because of its positive effect on certain children.

I think the scary thing, and the reason for all the alarm about
Ritalin, is that it is over-prescribed. It is the huge numbers of
children who are given this drug WHO SHOULDN"T HAVE BEEN where the
trouble lies.

Dave


When the drug maker designs the tests to determine if a child even has
ADHD a diagonosis purely subjective.


Horse crap. There is a specific protocol for diagnosing ADHD which is
published by the AAP. Of course, you would not know that.

You can rest assured that as many
children as possibly will be included .


100% incorrect. The AAP protocol is designed to weed out anyone whose
problems are caused by anything other than ADHD.

You our correct many children
are given these dangerous drugs 'who shouldn't have been" and this
study says that pratice may cause permanent damage.


Do prove that many kids are incorrectly diagnosed. Find a real source.

In light of the
recent studies on the safety and effectiveness of fish oil as an
alternative to these "speed like drugs' any concerned parent would be
wise to reseach this subject.


Unlike what you did, post their idle speculation.

Keep posting your excellant post Good
info based on science not sales Thanks Vince

  #28  
Old July 24th 07, 04:26 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
Mark Probert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,876
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developingbrain'

TC wrote:
On Jul 22, 12:28 pm, The One True Zhen Jue
wrote:
On Jul 22, 10:04 am, bigvince wrote:

A new study states that ""These brain tissue findings revealed
Ritalin-associated changes in four main areas," Dr. Milner says.
"First, we noticed alterations in brain chemicals such as
catecholamines and norepinephrine in the rats' prefrontal cortex - a
part of the mammalian brain responsible for higher executive thinking
and decision-making. There were also significant changes in
catecholamine function in the hippocampus, a center for memory and
learning."

Sounds like these are positive changes, Vince. Wouldn't that be a
total shame if these children were experiencing permanent improvements
as a result of taking Ritalin?


"Sounds like these are positive changes"? Is that a definite enough
assessment of benefit vs risk for you to put your children on these
meds?

These kids do not develop ADHD, etc. because they lack these meds in
their systems. They develop them from poor diet.


BULL****. ADHD has nothing to do with poor diet. NOTING.

Nutrient deficiency
from the time of conception thru their infancy to their present age.

http://www.1stholistic.com/Nutrition...f-symptoms.htm

Anxiety, depression, irritability, emotional, mental impairment,
instability, nervousness, are all symptoms of many individual vitamin
deficiencies and will manifest in cases of general malnourishment.

But our medical doctors weren't taught this in Med School. They were
taught to prescribes meds. In fact, they may only get a basic three
month Intro to Nutrition, if they are lucky.

Good health is impossible without good nutrition.

  #29  
Old July 24th 07, 04:27 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
Mark Probert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,876
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developingbrain'

D. wrote:
Absolutely not . . . no infection, just a virus.


How was that determined? What tests were run?

And, are you claiming that there are no virus based infections?

And antibiotics don't
kill viruses. So, my guess is that he knew his patient was "old
school" and wanted a doctor's prescription.

Dave

On Jul 23, 10:02 am, Jeff wrote:
D. wrote:
On Jul 23, 9:20 am, TC wrote:
These kids do not develop ADHD, etc. because they lack these meds in
their systems. They develop them from poor diet. Nutrient deficiency
from the time of conception thru their infancy to their present age.
http://www.1stholistic.com/Nutrition...f-symptoms.htm
Anxiety, depression, irritability, emotional, mental impairment,
instability, nervousness, are all symptoms of many individual vitamin
deficiencies and will manifest in cases of general malnourishment.
But our medical doctors weren't taught this in Med School. They were
taught to prescribes meds. In fact, they may only get a basic three
month Intro to Nutrition, if they are lucky.
Good health is impossible without good nutrition.
That's one of the best, well-rounded and TRUE posts I've read on the
usenet in a long time, good job TC.
My Mom just went to the doctor for a bad cold. She was given
ANTIBIOTICS. Can you believe that? Doctors simply want to write
prescriptions.

Why did the doctor say (s)he was giving prescribing antibiotics?
Perhaps there was a sinus infection or another bacterial infection.

Jeff

Dave



  #30  
Old July 24th 07, 03:23 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.nutrition
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default A new study shows Ritalin used for ADHD "May affect developing brain'

On Jul 23, 10:26 pm, Mark Probert
wrote:
TC wrote:
On Jul 22, 12:28 pm, The One True Zhen Jue
wrote:
On Jul 22, 10:04 am, bigvince wrote:


A new study states that ""These brain tissue findings revealed
Ritalin-associated changes in four main areas," Dr. Milner says.
"First, we noticed alterations in brain chemicals such as
catecholamines and norepinephrine in the rats' prefrontal cortex - a
part of the mammalian brain responsible for higher executive thinking
and decision-making. There were also significant changes in
catecholamine function in the hippocampus, a center for memory and
learning."
Sounds like these are positive changes, Vince. Wouldn't that be a
total shame if these children were experiencing permanent improvements
as a result of taking Ritalin?


"Sounds like these are positive changes"? Is that a definite enough
assessment of benefit vs risk for you to put your children on these
meds?


These kids do not develop ADHD, etc. because they lack these meds in
their systems. They develop them from poor diet.


BULL****. ADHD has nothing to do with poor diet. NOTING.


Again, we see how modern medicine has convinced us to completely
divorce physical and mental wellness from the fundmental concept of
nutrition.

Without proper nutrition we become sick and will die. We fail to
thrive. Basic mental and physical functions of the human body fail to
function as expected.

ADHD does not occur just because we did not feed our kids Ritalin.


Nutrient deficiency



from the time of conception thru their infancy to their present age.


http://www.1stholistic.com/Nutrition...f-symptoms.htm


Anxiety, depression, irritability, emotional, mental impairment,
instability, nervousness, are all symptoms of many individual vitamin
deficiencies and will manifest in cases of general malnourishment.


But our medical doctors weren't taught this in Med School. They were
taught to prescribes meds. In fact, they may only get a basic three
month Intro to Nutrition, if they are lucky.


Good health is impossible without good nutrition.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



 




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