Minor Rant..

I know I am beating myself up over this one but why wont this kid get
latched on already. He is eating like a little piggy so I dont dare to take
away the bottles I am not finding anything usefull for increasing my supply
with just the pump and I swear if i ever see the SNS thing again i am gonna
litteraly beat the person to hand it to me.. same with the D#$N nipple
sheild. How in the world did this world keep going before formula? You
would think this would be a fairly simple thing.. Put the baby on the breast
and it eats GRRRRR... Today I had to pump hold Xavier and feed him and
convince Bonnie she was not going to die from stubbing her toe I am pretty
sure i could have stood up just nursin Xavier and gone over to comfort
Bonnie but NO I was already 2 hands short for the activities i was on. I so
wish there was a LLL group arround here and the only Lactation consultant in
the area that i know of I was not comfortable with. There is the lady at
the WIC office I guess... Ok I admit it I am truely and honnestly agravated
that I have these big ole jugs attatched to me and my kids dont see them as
a food source... I need help getting Xavier to open up wider and to not
scream at the site of my boob... *sigh* On the plus side Xavier does not
turn his nose up at the expressed milk and it looks milky enough so I am
guessing I am getting the formilk out.. to bad it is only like 1/2 an ounce
per session.

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Xavier 10/27/04

"Tori M." wrote in message
...
I know I am beating myself up over this one but why wont this kid get
latched on already. He is eating like a little piggy so I dont dare to
take away the bottles I am not finding anything usefull for increasing my
supply with just the pump and I swear if i ever see the SNS thing again i
am gonna litteraly beat the person to hand it to me.. same with the D#$N
nipple sheild. How in the world did this world keep going before formula?
You would think this would be a fairly simple thing.. Put the baby on the
breast and it eats GRRRRR... Today I had to pump hold Xavier and feed him
and convince Bonnie she was not going to die from stubbing her toe I am
pretty sure i could have stood up just nursin Xavier and gone over to
comfort Bonnie but NO I was already 2 hands short for the activities i was
on. I so wish there was a LLL group arround here and the only Lactation
consultant in the area that i know of I was not comfortable with. There is
the lady at the WIC office I guess... Ok I admit it I am truely and
honnestly agravated that I have these big ole jugs attatched to me and my
kids dont see them as a food source... I need help getting Xavier to open
up wider and to not scream at the site of my boob... *sigh*

Hi - i mostly lurk here now, but i had some comments-

I will try to describe what i was told to do with my ds to get him to
position his
tongue correctly and open wider. It does not take very long and you should
do it
several times a day and make it seem fun like a game.

For tongue positioning: put your little finger in his mouth with the nail
facing
down and touch the roof of his mouth until he sucks, then turn the finger
over
and press down on his tongue for a few seconds.

For getting him to open wider: Put your little finger on the center of his
upper gum and sweep the length of the gum to each corner of his mouth
like 3 times, and do the same on the lower gum.

Sounds weird, but it actually has seemed to help my ds.

As for the screaming at the breast - BTDT, and i feel your pain! All i can
tell you is that it can get better. My ds used to do that and then all of a
sudden boobies were his friends again, but he still doesn't nurse properly
such
that he gets enough milk out for me to stop pumping. I had no idea that
could happen!

On the plus side Xavier does not
turn his nose up at the expressed milk and it looks milky enough so I am
guessing I am getting the formilk out.. to bad it is only like 1/2 an
ounce per session.

That will increase as long as you pump regularly every couple hours.

-kim

I think maybe the way they managed without formula was that babies got so
hungry they eventually figured it out, or they died, and some did, sadly.
Devices for feeding babies have existed for centuries, though it was only in
the last century when this became a safe alternative.

((((Tori))))
BF a newborn can be a battle at times. You're both learning. It gets one
hell of a lot easier. They're like little snapping turtles, and you have to
wait for him to open his *tiny* mouth *wide* and have him real close so you
can pop him on quickly before he clamps down again. It helps if you're
bringing him to the breast, not your breast to him, because if you have to
readjust to get comfortable or let go of your breast it can slip back out
doing it that way. Have his tummy directly opposite yours if you're using
the cradle position.
Sometimes you can get them to open their mouths wider by squirting a little
milk so they can smell it and playing with their bottom lip with your
nipple. Aim your nipple for the roof of his mouth. If he's latched, but his
tongue isn't down (you'll know cause he'll make funny clicking noises and
might nibble - ow) apply gentle but firm pressure to his chin, it won't
usually break the latch.
Believe me, they do get the hang of it and there will come a time where you
can lie down, in the dark, and they find it all by themselves! If someone
had told me that when DD was a newborn, there's no way I would have believed
that it could be a mere two months away. It then becomes a great tool for
putting them (and you) to sleep.
Hugs, you're doing a great job.

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
email: barton . souto @ clear . net . nz (join the dots!)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/carlos2002/


"Tori M." wrote in message
...
I know I am beating myself up over this one but why wont this kid get
latched on already.

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
I think maybe the way they managed without formula was that babies got so
hungry they eventually figured it out, or they died, and some did, sadly.
Devices for feeding babies have existed for centuries, though it was only
in the last century when this became a safe alternative.

I doubt many babies died simply because they didn't learn how to latch.
Maybe if there were extenuating circumstances, such as disability or extreme
prematurity. My cousin had a cleft lip & palette and couldn't latch
properly, and my Aunt fed him basically by milking her breast into his mouth
until his surgeries fixed his mouth. He gained weight like a little piglet.

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
email: barton . souto @ clear . net . nz (join the dots!)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/carlos2002/

((((Tori)))) It sounds so hard! Have you tried feeding him with a syringe? IT
will take longer but then maybe he would be more willing to try the breast
because he will be wanting to suck on something. Try feeding him a bit so he's
not frantic and then maybe dribble some milk onto your nipple before he can
put it there so he can taste it.


Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

Tori M. wrote:

I know I am beating myself up over this one but why wont this kid get
latched on already.

Aww - Tori - don't beat yourself up over it!! You are doing very well.

I need
help getting Xavier to open up wider and to not scream at the site of
my boob... *sigh*

Keep in mind that lots of newborn babies scream at the breast, fight the
breast, and are pain in general. Both mine did and they never had a bottle
at all and they new how to latch and suckle. So don't give that particular
behavior more meaning then it has. I used to repeat to my screaming, arm
flinging newborns that the breast is warm and good and cozy or some such
thing and then tell them they were being down right ridiculous with all the
dramatics. That was to calm me down, not them ;-) I wish I could keep that
attitude when they are toddlers!

You might also use the screaming as an opportunity to smash him in on the
breast. I did because their mouth was wide open when they were screaming.
Wrap him up so his arms aren't in the way. I had to wrap rather loosely or
they had a fit but it worked to keep their arms back a little bit. Dab some
milk on your nipple so he smells/tastes it and recognized it as a food
source. I used the cradle hold and with the other hand I supported the
breast. When he screams - literally smash his little face onto your nipple
;-) Don't lean in to him - that will result in him getting only the tip.
Bring the baby into your breast - fast and rather hard. Then ease up a
tiny bit so he can breath ;-) Make sure his bottom lip is flanged out. If
it isn't put a tiny bit of pressure on his chin and often that will fix it.
This is where you need a third hand, lol. If his lip doesn't flange out,
take him off and do it again. Hold him there for just a second to see if
he'll settle down and suckle. I'd often have to hold mine in tight and
close so they figured out it was time to quit screaming and start suckling.
Once they started suckling I could ease up a bit.

I just made mine stay on there to nurse but I knew I had the milk and the
babies did not have experience with any other way of suckling or eating.
This is where I'm not really sure how to handle it with Xavier because I've
no experience. I'm not sure if you can be so forceful in your situation.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge will pipe up.

Good luck but remember to not beat yourself up over the times that don't
work. Xavier is loved and healthy and that is the important thing. Since
breastfeeding is something you would like to do I think it makes sense to
continue to try and get him latched, and I think there is a very good chance
he might, but don't put so much importance on it that you cause yourself a
lot of anxiety and grief. Try as long as it makes sense to, if it works out
it was meant to be, and if it doesn't, you are the same wonderful mother you
always have been.
--
Nikki

This morning I tried again and while he did not latch on he did not cry
forever either. I expressed some milk on to the tip and he licked it off a
few times. I ended the attempt BEFORE he started to get aggitated. I will
try Leslies suggestion of a syringe as soon as I can get one.. I mentioned I
needed a baby med. kit and the lady who gave me one assembled it herself but
gave me a spoon thing.. not that I mind but I already had 3 of them.. no
syringes.

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Xavier 10/27/04
"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Tori M. wrote:

I know I am beating myself up over this one but why wont this kid get
latched on already.

Aww - Tori - don't beat yourself up over it!! You are doing very well.

I need
help getting Xavier to open up wider and to not scream at the site of
my boob... *sigh*

Keep in mind that lots of newborn babies scream at the breast, fight the
breast, and are pain in general. Both mine did and they never had a
bottle at all and they new how to latch and suckle. So don't give that
particular behavior more meaning then it has. I used to repeat to my
screaming, arm flinging newborns that the breast is warm and good and cozy
or some such thing and then tell them they were being down right
ridiculous with all the dramatics. That was to calm me down, not them ;-)
I wish I could keep that attitude when they are toddlers!

You might also use the screaming as an opportunity to smash him in on the
breast. I did because their mouth was wide open when they were screaming.
Wrap him up so his arms aren't in the way. I had to wrap rather loosely
or they had a fit but it worked to keep their arms back a little bit. Dab
some milk on your nipple so he smells/tastes it and recognized it as a
food source. I used the cradle hold and with the other hand I supported
the breast. When he screams - literally smash his little face onto your
nipple ;-) Don't lean in to him - that will result in him getting only
the tip. Bring the baby into your breast - fast and rather hard. Then
ease up a tiny bit so he can breath ;-) Make sure his bottom lip is
flanged out. If it isn't put a tiny bit of pressure on his chin and often
that will fix it. This is where you need a third hand, lol. If his lip
doesn't flange out, take him off and do it again. Hold him there for
just a second to see if he'll settle down and suckle. I'd often have to
hold mine in tight and close so they figured out it was time to quit
screaming and start suckling. Once they started suckling I could ease up a
bit.

I just made mine stay on there to nurse but I knew I had the milk and the
babies did not have experience with any other way of suckling or eating.
This is where I'm not really sure how to handle it with Xavier because
I've no experience. I'm not sure if you can be so forceful in your
situation. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will pipe up.

Good luck but remember to not beat yourself up over the times that don't
work. Xavier is loved and healthy and that is the important thing. Since
breastfeeding is something you would like to do I think it makes sense to
continue to try and get him latched, and I think there is a very good
chance he might, but don't put so much importance on it that you cause
yourself a lot of anxiety and grief. Try as long as it makes sense to, if
it works out it was meant to be, and if it doesn't, you are the same
wonderful mother you always have been.
--
Nikki

"Kim E" wrote in message
...


For tongue positioning: put your little finger in his mouth with the nail
facing
down and touch the roof of his mouth until he sucks, then turn the finger
over
and press down on his tongue for a few seconds.

Is this just a little "exercise" or do you ram her on after that?

For getting him to open wider: Put your little finger on the center of his
upper gum and sweep the length of the gum to each corner of his mouth
like 3 times, and do the same on the lower gum.

Interesting. Did an lc give you this advice? As I posted before, we are
battling the small mouth and tongue positioning thing too.

JennP.

"Tori M." wrote in message
...

I need help getting Xavier to open up wider and to not
scream at the site of my boob... *sigh* On the plus side Xavier does not
turn his nose up at the expressed milk and it looks milky enough so I am
guessing I am getting the formilk out.. to bad it is only like 1/2 an
ounce
per session.

Tori, just so you know, experienced, previously successful breastfeeders can
have the same trouble you are. We're coming over the hump here finally, but
I never expected Jessica to have a hard time latching after I had such a
great experience with Matthew. She has the same problem that Xavier has, she
just doesn't open up wide enough and she beat up my nipples pretty bad but I
think we're on the upswing now.

Things that worked for us:

*no bottles or paci's--I'd love to give this kid a paci, but I won't until
she's latching 100% well for at least a week.
*not allowing her to practice a bad latch. I've been counting to five when
she latches and if it still hurts beyond that initial five seconds, she
needs to come off. It has taken up to five minutes to get her to latch on
properly sometimes.
*making sure she's very awake before a feeding which usually means changing
her diaper so that she's screaming and can't help that her mouth is wide
open, lol.
*pinning down those darn hands. At times she'd rather have her hands in her
mouth than my breast, I think. I never thought I'd be competing with hands,
lol.
*holding on to her head for more control and ramming her on. Sounds violent,
I know, lol. I've found the cross-cradle hold and football hold to be most
successsful right now. Forget the cradle hold. Not enough control for us
right now.

Good luck.

JennP.