51 deaths ADHD drugs ...

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"Bob Kaplow" wrote in message
news
In article , Mark Probert
writes:
Damn, Bob, stop making sense.

Sorry about that.

APAP has one of the narrowest windows between "therapeutic" and "toxic"
of all medications. Several years ago, while I was in ICU after having
aspirated during a test, there was a girl in who was on life support
after ODing on APAP.

About a year ago I hurt my arm, and my doctor had me taking triple
Ibuprofen
3-4 times a day. The normal does is 1. He mentioned that at its normal
dose
tylenol is one of the safest products on the market, but at elevated
doses
it's deadly. In all his years of practice, he's never had someone OD on
pain
killers, or anything else. Except Tylenol.

Of course if Asperin were developed today, it would NEVER get FDA
approval,
even under prescription.

Ibuprofen, on the other hand is safe even at relatively high doses. But
ask
your doctor first.


Please find ONE ER that thinks Ibuprofen is safer than acetaminophen.

Mine does. Peptic ulcer is reversable; liver destruction is not.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

"JanD" wrote in message
news:y%5Hf.790835$xm3.47596@attbi_s21...

"vernon" wrote in message
ng.com...

"Brad_Chad" wrote in message
oups.com...
If conventional doctors had any moral integrity, they would have at
least given all their ADHD patients a choice of either medication, or
help with finding their Hidden Food Sensitivities. Instead, they go
straight for the drugs. They don't tell their patients anything about
the Hidden Food Sensitivity controversy. What greedy wimps. They sold
their soul to the pharmaceutical companies.

Brad_Chad


Pharms had nothing to do with it.
It's crass laziness along with putting up with idiotic mommies.

Incorrect.

It is the DOCTORS.

YOU left out idiotic DADDIES!

Says a lot about YOU!

Daddies don't bring the little kiddies into the Doctor, stupid. (rarely)
Now, you could say that daddies don't care if you want.

When I said crass laziness it was ABOUT DOCTORS.

What kind of mind altering meds are you on?

"vernon" wrote in news:43ed5901$0$8829
:

25 per 10 million patient years! I wish everything was that safe.
--

Are you saying that there is 10 million patient years of people taking
Ritalin? I'm asking, not smarting off.

10 million patient-years in 1999-2003 alone. About 25 million
prescriptions during that time, each prescription good for only 30 days so
about 12 prescriptions per patient per year. That means about 2 million
patients over a five-year period, so yes, 10 million patient-years.

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"Bob Kaplow" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark Probert
writes:
"Twenty-five people died suddenly and 54 others suffered serious
unexplained heart problems while taking stimulant drugs like Ritalin
from 1999 through 2003, according to reports sent to federal drug
regulators."

Now, let's take a minute and analyze this. Twenty-five people died over
the course of 5 years. That averages to 5 deaths per year. The NYTimes
then reports that "...[a]bout 29 million prescriptions were written in
2004 for Ritalin, Adderall and similar drugs to treat attention deficit
disorder and hyperactivity, most of them for children."

How many people died over the same period of Tylenol (or the many generic
equivalents) overdose? How many more suffered life threatening
complications, or are now on a wait list for an organ transplant from
Tylenol. And why aren't these same people SCREAMING to pull Tylenol off
the
market.



It takes a lot of Tylenol for a while to cause big problems. These
people are usually in bad shape and Tylenol a "substitute" death.
No pain reliever is the safest, but next to that Tylenol is the safest
pain reliever.


Wrong. The LD50 of acetainophen is about 250mg/kg, or about 35
extra-strength tablets in a 75kg adult. There is an antidote, but if the
overdose is discovered to late, i.e.: more than about twelve hours after
ingestion, the liver damage has already been done, leaving liver transplant
the only treatment option. Fatal liver damage has been seen with doses as
low as 80mg/kg or only twelve tablets for our hypothetical typical adult.
This amount could be taken as an accidental overdose by an ill-informed
person treating a bad headache.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

"Bob Kaplow" wrote in message
...
In article Ss8Hf.790990$xm3.430995@attbi_s21, "JanD"
writes:
Ritalin 'may cause damage to brains'

OK, now I think I understand your problem...

It is NOT *MY* problem!

It IS a huge problem.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifean...les/8211049?ve...


Ritalin 'may cause damage to brains'


By Pravin Char, Metro


17 December 2003


Children given Ritalin to control hyperactivity could be permanently brain
damaged, it was claimed yesterday.


Research suggests the controversial 'chemical cosh' drug raises the risk of
depression and anxiety in adulthood.


Ritalin alters the brain's chemical composition so that it has a lasting
effect
on mental health, US scientists believe. Because these changes take place
while
a child's brain is growing, they could cause irreversiblle damage


The findings will alarm parents using the drug to control a child's
attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).


British GPs dispensed a record 254,000 Ritalin prescriptions last year, up
from
208,500 in 2001. One in 20 children is said to have ADHD, which makes them
boisterous and unfocused.


'It is vitally important we evaluate the long-term effects of these drugs,'
said Dr Nora Volkow, director of the US National Institute on Drug Abuse.


Although American studies involved laboratory rats, the doses given were
comparable to those used on children.


In one test, giving Ritalin to young, healthy rats increased the presence of
certain chemicals linked to depression in adults. Asecond study found higher
levels of stress hormones and anxietylike behaviours.


Last night, Shadow children's minister Tim Loughton urged the Government to
investigate Ritalin use.


The Royal College of Paediatrics said: 'Ritalin has been used for 40 years.
If
there was a long-term side-effect, it would have been discovered by now.'


Novartis, the company which makes Ritalin, insisted there was no clinical
link
to depression or anxiety disorders.



Now back to the subject.


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/*lifea...es/8*211049?ve...


Again, I deleted the article. It is copyrighted; I don't have permission
to copy it.


Our brains change during development. Change is not the same as damage.
IMHO, it has not been shown that methylphenidate and other drugs that help
people with ADHD damage the brain.



That leads us right back where we started!

http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/0*1/news/fortune500/fda_panel.dj*/



Agency asked to proceed with plans for warnings about hallucinations,
suicide risk.
Good. I am glad that the FDA is paying attention to side effects.


Such a pity they did NOT do it BEFORE *organized medicine* decided to start
giving it to BABIES!!!!!!!!


I do concur that investigations of the long-term effects of the drugs
should be done.


Jeff



And, I do say:

Such a pity they did NOT do it BEFORE *organized medicine* decided to start
giving it to BABIES!!!!!!!!


GOOD GRIEF!


Then I back it up!


http://www.guardian.co.uk/life*/this...0439*0,00.html


Is it safe for children to take Ritalin?


David Adam
Thursday July 24, 2003
The Guardian


If not, then we're storing up a whole heap of trouble. New figures this week
show that use of the drug given to calm hyperactive children has soared
100-fold in Britain in the past decade. Doctors dispensed 254,000
prescriptions
of it last year, up from 2,000 or so given annually in the early 1990s.
Ritalin has been approved for use in children over five years old who suffer
from Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), but many doctors
prescribe the drug - also known as methylphenidate - for children as young
as
18 months.


The drug is widely considered safe, but few long-term studies have been done
because of the ethical difficulties of experimenting with children. And some
scientists are concerned how the drug - a powerful stimulant shown to have a
similar effect to cocaine - could affect developing brains. One high profile
investigation in 2001 did suggest that Ritalin triggered changes to brain
function. But Joan Baizer, who led the research at Buffalo University, New
York
says its results were largely exaggerated. "It was a preliminary report on
basic research in rats _ it doesn't imply anything about a long-term health
effect," she says.


Dave Woodhouse, who runs an ADHD clinic at the University of Teesside says
some
evidence is emerging that children taking Ritalin for several years show
reduced cognitive ability, but this work is also at an early stage and has
not
yet been published.


A controversial three-year clinical trial of Ritalin use among hundreds of
preschool US youngsters diagnosed with ADHD is due to report next year. The
study is led by Laurence Greenhill of the New York State Psychiatric
Institute
and is the first to look at the effects of a drug on children as young as
three.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/life*/this...0439*0,00.html


Is it safe for children to take Ritalin?


David Adam
Thursday July 24, 2003
The Guardian


If not, then we're storing up a whole heap of trouble. New figures this week
show that use of the drug given to calm hyperactive children has soared
100-fold in Britain in the past decade. Doctors dispensed 254,000
prescriptions
of it last year, up from 2,000 or so given annually in the early 1990s.
Ritalin has been approved for use in children over five years old who suffer
from Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), but many doctors
prescribe the drug - also known as methylphenidate - for children as young
as
18 months.


The drug is widely considered safe, but few long-term studies have been done
because of the ethical difficulties of experimenting with children. And some
scientists are concerned how the drug - a powerful stimulant shown to have a
similar effect to cocaine - could affect developing brains. One high profile
investigation in 2001 did suggest that Ritalin triggered changes to brain
function. But Joan Baizer, who led the research at Buffalo University, New
York
says its results were largely exaggerated. "It was a preliminary report on
basic research in rats _ it doesn't imply anything about a long-term health
effect," she says.


Dave Woodhouse, who runs an ADHD clinic at the University of Teesside says
some
evidence is emerging that children taking Ritalin for several years show
reduced cognitive ability, but this work is also at an early stage and has
not
yet been published.


A controversial three-year clinical trial of Ritalin use among hundreds of
preschool US youngsters diagnosed with ADHD is due to report next year. The
study is led by Laurence Greenhill of the New York State Psychiatric
Institute
and is the first to look at the effects of a drug on children as young as
three.


You also might be interested in the fact, preschoolers were sought for drug
studies, back in 2001.


http://tinyurl.com/2g575


As a ped doc, I am surprised you do NOT know this. Good thing I am here.


Jan
(this is a repost, if this links do not work, from here, they still do, as I
tried everyone of them, bleow is the tiny url where they were first posted)
http://tinyurl.com/b7qhf


(Every single link works from the tiny URL above)


http://www.bio-medical.com/adh*d_0001.htm


http://familyeducation.com/art*icle/...-12687,00.html


http://www.psych.org/pnews/00-*12-01/study.html


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/*front.../dru*gs/dontkn...


Who is the most likely to get these drugs?


The people who needs them, or the ones with the $$$$$$?


http://www.newswise.com/p/articles/view/512680/


Nuff said!





--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)!

Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org
www.nar.org

I support drug testing. I believe every public official should be given a
shot of sodium pentathol and ask "Which laws have you broken this week?".

"vernon" wrote in message
g.com...

"JanD" wrote in message
news:y%5Hf.790835$xm3.47596@attbi_s21...

"vernon" wrote in message
ng.com...

"Brad_Chad" wrote in message
oups.com...
If conventional doctors had any moral integrity, they would have at
least given all their ADHD patients a choice of either medication, or
help with finding their Hidden Food Sensitivities. Instead, they go
straight for the drugs. They don't tell their patients anything about
the Hidden Food Sensitivity controversy. What greedy wimps. They sold
their soul to the pharmaceutical companies.

Brad_Chad


Pharms had nothing to do with it.
It's crass laziness along with putting up with idiotic mommies.

Incorrect.

It is the DOCTORS.

YOU left out idiotic DADDIES!

Says a lot about YOU!

Daddies don't bring the little kiddies into the Doctor, stupid. (rarely)

Daddies DO takes kiddies to the doctor. There is NO need to call names.

Futhermore parents make decisons *together* about what medications their
children take.

Now, you could say that daddies don't care if you want.

That would most certainly be a very bad daddy.

When I said crass laziness it was ABOUT DOCTORS.

What kind of mind altering meds are you on?

NONE, and this is NOT about me.

"Peter Bowditch

snip lies

Bob Kaplow wrote:

snip diversion
Mark Probert writes:

snip diversion


"Twenty-five people died suddenly and 54 others suffered serious
unexplained heart problems while taking stimulant drugs like Ritalin
from 1999 through 2003, according to reports sent to federal drug
regulators."

--
Peter Bowditch

"JanD" wrote:


"Bob Kaplow" wrote in message
...
In article Ss8Hf.790990$xm3.430995@attbi_s21, "JanD"
writes:
Ritalin 'may cause damage to brains'

OK, now I think I understand your problem...

It is NOT *MY* problem!

It IS a huge problem.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifean...les/8211049?ve...


Ritalin 'may cause damage to brains'


By Pravin Char, Metro


17 December 2003


Children given Ritalin to control hyperactivity could be permanently brain
damaged, it was claimed yesterday.


Research suggests the controversial 'chemical cosh' drug

No need to read any further. The use of the idiotic expression "chemical cosh" means that
it is perfectly safe to ...

snip bull****
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"vernon" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
.. .
"JanD" wrote:


"Mark Probert blathered:

snip diversion
Bob Kaplow wrote:

snip diversion
Mark Probert writes:
"Twenty-five people died suddenly and 54 others suffered serious
unexplained heart problems while taking stimulant drugs like Ritalin
from 1999 through 2003, according to reports sent to federal drug
regulators."



25 per 10 million patient years! I wish everything was that safe.
--

Are you saying that there is 10 million patient years of people taking
Ritalin? I'm asking, not smarting off.


No, as Ritalin has been used since 1955 there are probably many more than 10 million. Over
the five-year period of this study, however, there were around 2 million people taking
Ritalin in any year. 2 times 5 is 10.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"vernon" wrote:


"Bob Kaplow" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark Probert
writes:
"Twenty-five people died suddenly and 54 others suffered serious
unexplained heart problems while taking stimulant drugs like Ritalin
from 1999 through 2003, according to reports sent to federal drug
regulators."

Now, let's take a minute and analyze this. Twenty-five people died over
the course of 5 years. That averages to 5 deaths per year. The NYTimes
then reports that "...[a]bout 29 million prescriptions were written in
2004 for Ritalin, Adderall and similar drugs to treat attention deficit
disorder and hyperactivity, most of them for children."

How many people died over the same period of Tylenol (or the many generic
equivalents) overdose? How many more suffered life threatening
complications, or are now on a wait list for an organ transplant from
Tylenol. And why aren't these same people SCREAMING to pull Tylenol off
the
market.



It takes a lot of Tylenol for a while to cause big problems. These people
are usually in bad shape and Tylenol a "substitute" death.
No pain reliever is the safest, but next to that Tylenol is the safest pain
reliever.


Another thing of which you are ignorant. It takes two packets and two hours. Have you ever
watched someone having charcoal forced into their stomach to soak up paracetamol? Have you
ever seen how easy it is to get immediate treatment in a crowded ER by saying the words
"Panadol" and "overdose" to the triage nurse? Have you ever heard a doctor say something
like "It was only about 24 tablets and we got to it quickly, so I am hopeful that no real
liver damage was done"?
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com