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#41
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Todd, thanks for listening to us. Your answer here is much more
coherent and readable. Is your effort a single-person effort or are you aligned with others, en masse, who are politically moving to create more awareness of your issues? anyone4tea |
#42
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KELLY JUST NOT PAYING ATTENTION?
Kelly wrote: I don't get the title [Kelly Pretends; Jamie Agrees]. What am I pretending? Oh, to not pay attention to you on this thread currently? Kelly, As I noted (see below), if you really believe what you indicated, then you aren't pretending. Not paying attention is another possibility. Todd PS Here again is the post in question...the relevant excerpt anyway... KELLY PRETENDS; JAMIE AGREES Kelly wrote: Todd, I wonder how often you are working in labor and delivery and in a newborn nursery? Do you in person see all these things you claim? Also, are doctors doing circs without consent? I highly doubt it-it is a choice of parents, so the parents are requesting this to be done. Kelly pretends that I must work in labor and delivery to know that OBs are routinely closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping them closed when babies get stuck. Kelly also pretends that MDs obtain consent before ripping and slicing infant penises en masse and that it is ethical for MDs to rip and slice infant penises en masse. See I don't need to see the MD felonies... http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...4cf50194d30983 Perhaps Kelly isn't pretending? Perhaps Kelly really believes, for example, that one must work in labor and delivery to know that OBs are routinely closing birth canals up to 30%, etc.? Kelly offered no substantiation for her inferences/pretenses and she hasn't replied to my post... [Jan. 6, 2005 update: Kelly STILL hasn't offered any substantiation for her inferences/pretenses that these grisly things aren't happening. Her emoticonned reply (see above) was cute though.] snip Todd |
#43
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On 5 Jan 2005 15:40:51 -0700, Larry McMahan
wrote: You are a real sweetheart with a LOTS of patience. Thank you, Larry! This made me smile when I read it. -- Daye Mommy to: DD - age 3 DS - age 1 |
#44
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On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0800, "Kelly"
wrote: I do think his *one* point is valid, but the way he goes about it is entirely offensive and makes most people turn away. That is a very ineffective method of obtaining people to support his cause. He does have several points if you read his posts. Most of the post do center around the 30% issue, but he has others as well. You are right. He can be ineffective, but he is trying and learning. Things in his favor are that he does admit when he is wrong, and he will debate (rather than flame) you about issues. I have yet to read about anything he has actually *done* regarding his cause. Does he go to childbirth classes as a guest speaker to discuss alt. positions for delivery? Does he give talks to OB's and providers? You don't consider his posts to pregnant women doing anything? I do. He is trying to educate the very people who can help stop the problem -- the women giving birth. I also know that he takes on medical professionals head on on other ngs to help get them to see his side. As for doing work with childbirth classes and giving talks to OBs, you will have to ask Todd. I don't know. I will say one thing though. I try to do a lot of educating about Post Natal Depression -- both in real life and online. I admit that I am sometimes more effective in getting my message across. Todd and I have different styles and personalities. However, I have reached a hell of a lot more people online with my PND education than I have in real life. The reason is simple. I can reach more different from many walks of life online than I could ever do in real life. Yes, I do the real life stuff, but my message is received by more people with a single post on mkp. Maybe this is what Todd thinks as well. -- Daye Mommy to: DD - age 3 DS - age 1 |
#45
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 02:55:06 GMT, "Todd Gastaldo"
wrote: I want to change the world, Larry. Good on ya, Todd! We need more people who want to change the world. Some lyrics are coming to mind with this statement. I will give them to you to ponder: "I'd love to change the world, but I don't know what to do... so, I'm leaving it up to you..." As you know, I want OBs to stop various obvious crimes. How can I say it so that this grisly obstetric tomfoolery ACTUALLY ends tomorrow (or today!)? Todd, the point is that you can't. You can only change the world one person at a time. You got me on your side. I got your message, and I help you spread the word. It is very much a "Pay It Forward" idea. I don't like Michael Jackson, but he has a profound idea when he sings, "I'm starting with the man in the mirror. I'm asking him to change his ways, and no message could have been any clearer. If you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make a change." Maybe you need to change the way you approach this issue and how you put your ideas out there. Several people have complained that they don't like the way you present things. Take that on board, and try to figure out different ways to present your ideas. Some people claim that you butt in and take over threads. Think about starting your own threads with your message so that people don't feel like you have hijacked the thread. Some people complain that they don't like it when you quote them directly or you call them out in your subjects (and this is a valid complaint). Try to find a different way to confront the issues that those people raise without turning them against you. Last, but not least, a lot of people complain about the length of your posts. I have brought this up as a problem before too. You were trying "Mini Me" posts. I think those were quite effective. You are a very verbose man. You have a lot of information to share. My DH is a verbose man. I am not usually verbose. In fact, I am usually too blunt. However, if you can get your message down to fewer statements that convey a lot of information, you will get more people reading your posts. (BTW, I know that a few statements with a lot of info isn't an easy thing to write, but try.) Could you ask your hippy friends for phraseology that will do the trick? : ) Well, I have a few hippie friends and I know what they would tell you. Smoke a joint and chill out (*Disclaimer: Of course, that is illegal, and I would never tell you to do that.*). You can make a difference, but you also need to kick back and think about what you want to say and how you want to say it. Remember, as the Beatles said, "Turn off your mind. Relax and float down stream. This is not dying... Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void. It is shining... Yet you may see the meaning of within, it is being." -- Daye Mommy to: DD - age 3 DS - age 1 |
#46
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Lady, You are awesome! You can give me advice ANY time!!! Larry |
#47
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On 7 Jan 2005 11:09:32 -0700, Larry McMahan
wrote: You are awesome! You can give me advice ANY time!!! Thank you, Larry! This really brought a smile to my face. I haven't seen many instances where you need advice, but you can ask me for it whenever you feel that you need it. I do what I can where I can. -- Daye Mommy to: DD - age 3 DS - age 1 |
#48
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I agree that his message is getting across, but over and over again here
with long choppy messages gets old and may people have killfiled him. I find him offensive and tactless about 75% of the time-he says the same thing over and over so I stop reading his posts (because I know what his point is by now!) I also dislike how he uses posters full name and includes them in "his" topics then blasts many of them. He does reach and teach a lot of online people and that is great. But a more gentle less threatening and annoying way would help. "Daye" wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0800, "Kelly" wrote: I do think his *one* point is valid, but the way he goes about it is entirely offensive and makes most people turn away. That is a very ineffective method of obtaining people to support his cause. He does have several points if you read his posts. Most of the post do center around the 30% issue, but he has others as well. You are right. He can be ineffective, but he is trying and learning. Things in his favor are that he does admit when he is wrong, and he will debate (rather than flame) you about issues. I have yet to read about anything he has actually *done* regarding his cause. Does he go to childbirth classes as a guest speaker to discuss alt. positions for delivery? Does he give talks to OB's and providers? You don't consider his posts to pregnant women doing anything? I do. He is trying to educate the very people who can help stop the problem -- the women giving birth. I also know that he takes on medical professionals head on on other ngs to help get them to see his side. As for doing work with childbirth classes and giving talks to OBs, you will have to ask Todd. I don't know. I will say one thing though. I try to do a lot of educating about Post Natal Depression -- both in real life and online. I admit that I am sometimes more effective in getting my message across. Todd and I have different styles and personalities. However, I have reached a hell of a lot more people online with my PND education than I have in real life. The reason is simple. I can reach more different from many walks of life online than I could ever do in real life. Yes, I do the real life stuff, but my message is received by more people with a single post on mkp. Maybe this is what Todd thinks as well. -- Daye Mommy to: DD - age 3 DS - age 1 |
#49
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I'm agree with you Kelly.... but we can too try to accept the people as
they are. |
#50
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KELLY - AND COMMENTS FOR DAYE...
"Kelly" wrote in message ... I agree that his message is getting across, Thank you, Kelly. but over and over again here with long choppy messages gets old and may people have killfiled him. I find him offensive and tactless about 75% of the time-he says the same thing over and over so I stop reading his posts (because I know what his point is by now!) I have NO problem being killfiled - none whatsoever! I hope that after people killfile me, they at least tell pregnant women in their circle of family and friends that OBs are closing birth canals up to 30% and that it easy for them to allow their birth canals to open the "extra" up to 30%. I also dislike how he uses posters full name and includes them in "his" topics then blasts many of them. I generally only "blast" when I myself have been blasted. I do not apologize for using people's full names. I am glad you put "his" in quotes Kelly. "My" topics/"my" causes - they are not "mine." OBs are committing a serious CRIME - closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed when babies get stuck... EVERYONE can - and should - tell pregnant women about this - and the fact that it is easy for pregnant women to allow their birth canals to open the "extra" up to 30%. He does reach and teach a lot of online people and that is great. Again, thank you, Kelly. But a more gentle less threatening and annoying way would help. Women don't like hearing that their OBs are committing an obvious crime. This is threatening to OBs - and uncomfortable for women to hear about their OBs. But it is true: OBs are threatening babies' very lives and limbs with their atrocious birth behavior. OBs are LYING to cover-up. Shoot at the messenger if you must - but he is not going to go away - not as long as he perceives misc.kids.pregnancy as a place where new pregnant women come. Todd "Daye" wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0800, "Kelly" wrote: I do think his *one* point is valid, but the way he goes about it is entirely offensive and makes most people turn away. That is a very ineffective method of obtaining people to support his cause. He does have several points if you read his posts. Most of the post do center around the 30% issue, but he has others as well. You are right. He can be ineffective, but he is trying and learning. Things in his favor are that he does admit when he is wrong, and he will debate (rather than flame) you about issues. I have yet to read about anything he has actually *done* regarding his cause. Does he go to childbirth classes as a guest speaker to discuss alt. positions for delivery? Does he give talks to OB's and providers? You don't consider his posts to pregnant women doing anything? I do. He is trying to educate the very people who can help stop the problem -- the women giving birth. I also know that he takes on medical professionals head on on other ngs to help get them to see his side. As for doing work with childbirth classes and giving talks to OBs, you will have to ask Todd. I don't know. Daye, Via email and newsgroups, I reach childbirth educators, doulas, midwives, OBs, etc. DIRECTLY - QUICKLY. If childbirth educators, doulas, midwives, OBs, etc. choose not to offer this info to women, that is THEIR choice - they are not going to want ME talking to women about it. Think about that last sentence. This info is SIMPLE - many have acknowledged this - but prominent OBs (and prominent midwives) have REJECTED it. Indeed OBs and midwives are PROMOTING birth-canal-closing/semisitting. I think it most bizarre that Kelly whines (incorrectly) that **I** am being "annoying" and "threatening." OBs and midwives are committing assault and battery! No, it's not "politically correct" to point out the criminal behavior of OBs and the midwives who ape them... But it's also not "politically correct" to hang mothers and babies out to dry. I will say one thing though. I try to do a lot of educating about Post Natal Depression -- both in real life and online. I admit that I am sometimes more effective in getting my message across. Todd and I have different styles and personalities. Daye, when you approach PREVENTION of Post Natal Depression - via the "difficult labor" association - you will run up against the same brick wall. See Birth psychiatry ('Baby Blues': Are OBs causing some cases?) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3123 I am not creating this brick wall. It is THERE. OBs are committing CRIME - and midwives are blithely aping them and PROMOTING the crime. Most bizarre. However, I have reached a hell of a lot more people online with my PND education than I have in real life. The reason is simple. I can reach more different from many walks of life online than I could ever do in real life. Yes, I do the real life stuff, but my message is received by more people with a single post on mkp. Maybe this is what Todd thinks as well. Yep. Thanks Daye. I wish you luck in your PND education. Todd |
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