Please tell me it gets better (stubborn 3 yr old)

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:32:06 -0500, "Donna Metler"
Unfortunately, that's not really an option. I'm at home with her
approximately 12 hours a day that my husband is either at work or
commuting.
Some days, it might be as little as 10. It would be extremely hard to
do all
errands that I now do with her after 8 pm-and being with Daddy isn't a
punishment, but a reward.

This doesn't really address your OP, but have you considered joining
or starting a babysitting coop? I don't know how I got through the
first five years of ds' life without one.

JennP.

On Apr 21, 11:01 am, "Donna Metler" wrote:
I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

I know a few adults like this. They argue because, well, they do.
Doesn't matter if you actually agree with them....



Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!

Reading this, it seems my own daughter is quite advanced. Advanced in
the 3-yr old stubborness, having reached that stage at only 18 months.
Does this mean it'll be over earlier?

My DD is not quite so verbal, but she's basically doing all the things
you describe. So obviously I'm no help. Just commisserating.

My friend was talking about the "terrible twos." Someone asked her if
she'd yet experienced the "Thundering Threes." Yet another person
chimed in, just wait for the "F***ing Fours"........

On Apr 22, 5:28 am, Eowyn wrote:
Donna Metler wrote:
And she doesn't have a little sibling to account for the sudden "spoiled
brat-itis"!

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!

You actually had her cooperating when she was 2? Wow! My DD (now 2.5)
has been in the brat-itis phase as soon as she could talk. What works
very well is to say things in the opposite sense of what you want her to
do. That was a tip from my mom, since it apparently worked very well for
me when I was that age... E.g. saying "I'm sure you don't like that"
will respond in an instant "Oh yes, I do!".

Besides that, if she wants to argue, I try to catch her off-guard by
suddenly changing the topic into something I know she will respond to
(like suggesting a favorite toy).

Having dealt with only boys before, I'm not sure how long it will last.
With me, it never really stopped. Someone telling me I couldn't possibly
do something is still *the* best way to get me to do things, even if I
don't like it :-)

So ignore, ignore, ignore, and if you melt down and scream back, don't
beat yourself up over it. BTDT...

You know, I hate recommending books, but I did kind of like a recent
one I read. I was trying the ignore tactic, then the distract tactic,
and it didn't seem to really work. DD (now 21 months) would just
continue on.

So I tried the 'acknowledgement' tactic and the 'join in' tactic. If
she threw a tantrum because I said she couldn't have something, I
started saying "I know you're mad because you can't have that." in
very genuine sympathy (rather than 'don't be mad' or 'here, look at
this instead') or similar. Basically, acknowledging she's angry and
letting it out (to some extent I explain why she can't have it or that
screaming isn't appropriate, but at 21 months there's only so much she
can understand). Sometimes I'd fall on the floor and stamp my feet
with her (I had actually tried this loooooong ago when I babysat a 2
yr old). it's only been a couple of weeks, and it was after a very
difficult week of whining/fussing. So I'm not going to scream success
yet, and maybe it's coincidental, but it seems to be working a bit.
She generally stops the tantrum and laughs, or at least calms down.

She's sleeping better too

In my DD's case the tantrums are likely due to lack of verbal skills,
but given her character, I've no doubt once the verbal kicks in, she'd
argue til she was blue in the face....

"cjra" wrote in message
My friend was talking about the "terrible twos." Someone asked her if
she'd yet experienced the "Thundering Threes." Yet another person
chimed in, just wait for the "F***ing Fours"........

And then there's the tumultuous teens. ;o)
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

In article ,
cjra says...

On Apr 21, 11:01 am, "Donna Metler" wrote:
I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

I know a few adults like this. They argue because, well, they do.
Doesn't matter if you actually agree with them....

Whaddaya mean - I don't know anyone like that.

Banty

In article , Sue says...

"cjra" wrote in message
My friend was talking about the "terrible twos." Someone asked her if
she'd yet experienced the "Thundering Threes." Yet another person
chimed in, just wait for the "F***ing Fours"........

And then there's the tumultuous teens. ;o)

And then the fretful 40's.

Banty

"cjra" wrote in message
...
On Apr 21, 11:01 am, "Donna Metler" wrote:
I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't
want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving
me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's
a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID
HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say
the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

I know a few adults like this. They argue because, well, they do.
Doesn't matter if you actually agree with them....



Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!

Reading this, it seems my own daughter is quite advanced. Advanced in
the 3-yr old stubborness, having reached that stage at only 18 months.
Does this mean it'll be over earlier?

My DD is not quite so verbal, but she's basically doing all the things
you describe. So obviously I'm no help. Just commisserating.

My friend was talking about the "terrible twos." Someone asked her if
she'd yet experienced the "Thundering Threes." Yet another person
chimed in, just wait for the "F***ing Fours"........

With DD, I thought I'd gotten off early. She was SO verbal early on that we
just sailed through the 2 yr old tantrum because I want to say something and
I don't know how stage without issue.

But boy, are we getting the stubbornness now.

I had a brief chat with her MDO director yesterday, and DD is apparently
still her sweet self at MDO, once she adjusts to being there. It's more that
she's decided she's ready to separate from me, and is asserting her
independence in the most annoying way possible. It's also possible that
she's dealing with some anxiety and fear of the future, because her MDO ends
in 3 weeks, and the kids are moving on to preschool, so they're talking
quite a bit about preschool and what to expect-and while DD was excited
about preschool back in November when we were doing campus visits, it may be
starting to make her a bit nervous-which can lead to the immature, whiny,
bratty behavior, too-it's more common to see that in the preschoolers
heading to Kindergarten (according to the director, it usually goes over the
head of the 3 yr olds), but DD tends to be more "deep" in some ways than
most children her age, and it probably isn't too surprising that the thought
of changing her life dramatically scares her a bit.

One thing the MDO suggested is that, when she's trying to argue over doing
something that she can do, just walk away and let her do it-tell her to get
dressed, and then leave and let her do it on her own, because if she doesn't
have an audience to argue with, there's no reason to continue the powerplay.
That seems to have reduced the arguing today, anyway.

"Sue" wrote in message
news:yO2dnT2jdd6z9pPVnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"cjra" wrote in message
My friend was talking about the "terrible twos." Someone asked her if
she'd yet experienced the "Thundering Threes." Yet another person
chimed in, just wait for the "F***ing Fours"........

And then there's the tumultuous teens. ;o)
--
Sue (mom to three girls)



You guys make it all sound so pleasant!

Donna, I see you have gotten a lot of good advice here already, but
one problem you mentioned seems to have gotten lost. That problem is
your daughter being frightened by her own tantrum. It is normal, but
nonetheless something you might want to help her deal with, because it
is a big part of the escalation of small tantrums into major out of
control tantrums. My 4yo lacks control at times. He has learned that
I require him to at least *try* to control himself, and I take care to
acknowledge out loud even the slightest try. "Waah!" "No
screaming." "Waah ah ah." "That's better." I refuse to even
acknowledge why he is having a tantrum until he stops having it.

Pologirl

"Pologirl" wrote in message
...
Donna, I see you have gotten a lot of good advice here already, but
one problem you mentioned seems to have gotten lost. That problem is
your daughter being frightened by her own tantrum. It is normal, but
nonetheless something you might want to help her deal with, because it
is a big part of the escalation of small tantrums into major out of
control tantrums. My 4yo lacks control at times. He has learned that
I require him to at least *try* to control himself, and I take care to
acknowledge out loud even the slightest try. "Waah!" "No
screaming." "Waah ah ah." "That's better." I refuse to even
acknowledge why he is having a tantrum until he stops having it.

Yes, I tell #2 that I can't hear/understand her until she talks calmly.
She's an excellent actress and she can even produce real tears to order, so
I have to make sure she doesn't get carried away in the dramatics.
Once she has stopped screaming then we can sit down with a cuddle and listen
as she says something like "I (sniff) wanted (sniff) to get out of bed with
my right foot first, not my left" or something else desperately important to
a 4yo. I can then sympathise. As she's then calm she usually is more
reasonable, rather than it escalating into me suggesting remedies and her
passionately rejecting them all.
Debbie