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14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 12th 04, 02:24 AM
Daniel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend

"xkatx" . wrote in message
news:nz14c.25980$Up2.22526@pd7tw1no...

"Daniel" wrote in message ...
I'm posting in here because I've not got much (if any) help elsewhere.

Sorry
if this is somewhat long, but allot is going on.

snip


Wow. This hits me damn close to home. Reading this, I honestly saw

myself
in a lot of it. To be completely honest, I can really say, "Been there,
done that!"

I was 15. I had a "boyfriend" who was 20, but had the mentality of a 13
year old, I see now. He was slow, stupid, had no ambition, no job, no

home
aside from living off his 18 year old brother, who was also trying to
support their mother and a cousin of about the same age. I got into
'hanging' out with him, and his brother/cousin, and next thing I knew, I

was
15 years old, pregnant, and even before they knew I was pregnant, I was
already on bad terms with them. My grades in school dropped because I had
just stopped going to school all together, just to go hang out at his

trashy
little apartment. I now see everything had broken my parents' (and
family's) heart to have to go through it all, and all because of me. If
what you say is really how everything is, I can GUARANTEE you that she's
going to end up pregnant, and where do you think Mr. Wonderful will be?
He'll move on. If he shows such little respect for his own parents, and
your sister right now, when the **** hits the fan, he'll be gone faster

than
a fart in the wind.

Actually I cant tell you where he'll be (at least after a few years)...but I
can say he'll be registering every time he moves...& I'm not meaning to vote
either...(I'll have the evidence...though I'D REALLY NOT WANT IT THAT
WAY!!!)

This child, and yes, she is still a child, needs to know that you do love
her. She needs to be shown that you love her and care for her and don't
want to hurt her. You need to enforce rules and yes, structure. This is
YOUR house that she is living in. YOU make the rules. You are not her
father, and you aren't expected to be, but you just might be the best male
role model she's ever had and maybe ever will have. You have taken on the
parenting roll of your sister, and for that, I'd give you a pat on the

back
and my best wishes because I know it's hard. You need to be cutting that
Internet, or putting limits on it. There's many, MANY programs for all
platforms and computers that will allow you to lock up your computer, and
putting a password on your screen saver is useless because a quick reboot
will disable that. Lock unauthorized users out of your system because

it's
your computer, your Internet, your power, your home, YOUR RULES. Limit

her
time on the telephone, and monitor her calls if you can. Sit beside her

in
the same room and read a book while she's on the phone if you must, but
don't make it obvious that you're actually 'watching' her, if you can.
She'll give you looks of death the whole time, but looks can't kill. Set
concrete rules, and let all rules have consequences, both 'good' and

'bad.'
If she doesn't want to live by your rules, then that's too bad for her.

Actually thats some of what I'm looking for...know of any more software for
Win98 to help in this. By the way, I do know about zone alarm for internet
disabling, though I'd much rather leave that as her ONLY communication since
that is loggable & I can see whats going on & countermeasure it.

Here, the age of consent is 14. I believe there's also x amount of years
difference for minors, but I'm not 100% sure. Does she pay rent? Bills?
Maybe she can get a job to fill some time, although I know that's an
impossible thought. I honestly don't know what to suggest because I was

on
her side at that age, not yours. Send her to me for a month and she can
find out what the reality is of being a single, teen parent, and having 2
babies long before her 18th birthday.

She wont do anything else extra right now...job, school, activities...she
had plans...until him.

There's a lot you can use to fill up her time, like said before, sports
teams, music lessons, teen church groups, rehab, since that's something

she
just might need, and if not right now, almost definitely in the near

future
if she keeps being so wild and a danger to herself, mainly, and those who
actually do love her and care for her, and really, this little boyfriend

of
hers does not appear to actually care for her.

Again thanks for the suggestions...but again, see above.

I don't know. If anyone wants to flame, flame away. I've been through

the
EXACT same thing, as the wild teen, so I can definitely relate on a very
high level, but as far as suggestions go, I'm all out of them.
How about the time you are going to be away (although I'm not sure why

you'd
go away, unless, of course, it is absolutely necessary) you can ship her

off
to me and she can have a small taste of what could be reality. lol (j/k)

Glad you understand the going away part (& not say "we all need a break, but
cancel the trip"). I'm prepared for that part (see other reply somewhere).
Having others watch her & random calling to the parents land based line to
ensure she's there.

But glad to see someone understands from her side why this isn't an easy fix
like so many think it is.

Remember, the one attempted to be controlled is the one with the real
ultimate decision...even someone at gun point has the decision to die...& if
someone doesn't care about losing everything anyway, what is there to lose?

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?




  #12  
Old March 12th 04, 02:38 AM
Daniel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend

"John Dunn" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
THis is a tricky subject for sure...

I think a good test you could try is this. Since you are already above

being
honest by using spyware etc, why not invite the guy over, or call him, or
Message/Email him, and honestly try to convince him that she tested

positive
for pregnancy. See what this guy is really made of. Even start a rumour

that
she is pregnant in town. This if anything will make the guy think twice..
maybe even scare him. You could tell him that you know her very well and

she
has put holes in condomes of previous boyfriends to get pregnant so she

can
have someone to love her. That should scare him but good! So much so that

he
might even have problems getting it up! (Sarcasm aside)...

Wont work...he knows she's cleaned up her mom's FRESH blood & even her mom
as well immediatly after a fight & her mother (my mother too) supposedly
tested HIV+ 8 months ago. So pregnancy wont work if he's willing to risk
that she's not + (though there are many other factors to support that the
person who told her/us this was only lying to hurt her, but she wont listen
to reason that her father who doesn't care for her at all & shows it & has
only hurt her in the past will suddenly show up without any contact in a
long time saying that her mom has HIV & not be lieing about it...when no one
else was notified either & mom denies it too...Allot of other things on
this, but she still believes that her mother & possibly herself are HIV+).

Also, why not tell the truth to your sister. You are all worried about her
lying to you, yet you are lying to her about surveilence. Tell her that

you
have have this software installed as it is an invasion of her privacy for
you not to. I know you are going to be upset, but please take five seconds
to breath, then read the next line.

They dont know I'm doing this...I dont want them to know until I have enough
evidence because I dont want to scare them into being too suspicious.

What would you feel like if you found out someone was using a surveilence
software on you without first notifying you?

Would you be upset to find out someone was spying on you & ran in to prevent
you from trying to wire up a bomb when you had no clue of what you were
doing? I have always felt that regardless of who it is used on, surveylence
is good if used in the right way. I dont mind if someone is spying on me
because I have nothing to hide & could care less about anything they find
out. Yes I know she could be reading this, but let her if she is.
Knowledge itself is not bad, its the way it is used.

I do not support predators etc, and as someone said, including the police,
she is initiating most of this, so instead of being adversarial, why not
instead, try to talk nicely to her about it. Why not try to find out why

she
likes this guy, How did they meet? Are they in school together? He could

be
an adult student returning to highschool or something like that, but I am
just saying that maybe with a different approach of kindness rather than
lying, deciept and control, you can maybe just be kind of cool with her
instead, and ask for forgivness if you have been dominating her, and just
chat with her as a sibling.

Why do people assume that I didn't try the honest approach first? I did
that FIRST, for over a month & she saw that as a perfect chance to lie to me
& go even further behind my back...thats when I started reading the chat
logs & found stuff I needed to take to the sex crimes division (who didn't
give a sh*t)! She likes him "because he's cool", & he is cool "because he
is" (you know where that goes). She met him from her 19yr old (slutty)
friend, a former boyfriend of hers (this girl's former boyfriends have a
habbit of being preditors & pediphiles...one 21yr old recently got a 15yr
old girl pregant within months of her admitting to having been molested for
many years by her step father...people who know someone has been through
stuff like that & see it as a perfect opportunity to take advantage of
someone...THOSE kind of guys).

Maybe inform her of the ramifications that can legally happen to you, and
even emotionally why you are concerned. She is your little sister and you
love her. Tell her that. Let her know, that you are honestly worried, get

a
video, a real video not a movie, from an adoption agency which kids who

have
had kids talk about having to give up her kid for adoption. There are so
many ways to do it aside from devieving her.

Thats not an important point to her by now...she doesn't care...she's shown
obcession with him...we used to be pretty close until he came along & then
she's quit spending time with me unless I'm spending money on her (& not
meaning a few $) & even then I have to force it. The emotional effects of
giving your kid up for adoption dont work on someone who only met their
brother & sister a few years ago because similar situation happened to them.
She understands what that did to HER (our) mother & to us as well.

At her age, she is going to do what ever she wants. This is only natural.
You can not stop her from it all the time, so by providing her with some
education, and friendship instead of heavy handedness, you can hopefully
also maybe improve your own relationship with your sister, who is your
sister for life. So hopefully you can work something out.

My final suggestion, and a very serious one, is to print this email, or
select portions of it if you prefer to keep the surveilence software part
hidden from her (I don't condone that) and cut and paste a letter as If

you
were asking for advice and you got it, then accidentally leave it in her
bathroom or on the table or in the living room.

Let her see you are worreid about her and actively asking for help. In

your
letter, write how much you love her and are worried about her so she can

see
it on her own terms, without her having to worry about saving face... or

you
know what I mean..

She already knows I'm asking for help...problem is she is beyond caring
about it.

John Dunn




  #13  
Old March 12th 04, 02:39 AM
Daniel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend

'Kate wrote in message ...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:43:47 GMT, "xkatx" .

"Daniel" wrote in message ...
I'm posting in here because I've not got much (if any) help elsewhere.

Sorry
if this is somewhat long, but allot is going on.

snip


Wow. This hits me damn close to home. Reading this, I honestly saw

myself
in a lot of it. To be completely honest, I can really say, "Been there,
done that!"

I was 15. I had a "boyfriend" who was 20, but had the mentality of a 13
year old, I see now. He was slow, stupid, had no ambition, no job, no

home
aside from living off his 18 year old brother, who was also trying to
support their mother and a cousin of about the same age. I got into
'hanging' out with him, and his brother/cousin, and next thing I knew, I

was
15 years old, pregnant, and even before they knew I was pregnant, I was
already on bad terms with them. My grades in school dropped because I

had
just stopped going to school all together, just to go hang out at his

trashy
little apartment. I now see everything had broken my parents' (and
family's) heart to have to go through it all, and all because of me. If
what you say is really how everything is, I can GUARANTEE you that she's
going to end up pregnant, and where do you think Mr. Wonderful will be?
He'll move on. If he shows such little respect for his own parents, and
your sister right now, when the **** hits the fan, he'll be gone faster

than
a fart in the wind.

This child, and yes, she is still a child, needs to know that you do love
her. She needs to be shown that you love her and care for her and don't
want to hurt her. You need to enforce rules and yes, structure. This is
YOUR house that she is living in. YOU make the rules. You are not her
father, and you aren't expected to be, but you just might be the best

male
role model she's ever had and maybe ever will have. You have taken on

the
parenting roll of your sister, and for that, I'd give you a pat on the

back
and my best wishes because I know it's hard. You need to be cutting that
Internet, or putting limits on it. There's many, MANY programs for all
platforms and computers that will allow you to lock up your computer, and
putting a password on your screen saver is useless because a quick reboot
will disable that. Lock unauthorized users out of your system because

it's
your computer, your Internet, your power, your home, YOUR RULES. Limit

her
time on the telephone, and monitor her calls if you can. Sit beside her

in
the same room and read a book while she's on the phone if you must, but
don't make it obvious that you're actually 'watching' her, if you can.
She'll give you looks of death the whole time, but looks can't kill. Set
concrete rules, and let all rules have consequences, both 'good' and

'bad.'
If she doesn't want to live by your rules, then that's too bad for her.

Here, the age of consent is 14. I believe there's also x amount of years
difference for minors, but I'm not 100% sure. Does she pay rent? Bills?
Maybe she can get a job to fill some time, although I know that's an
impossible thought. I honestly don't know what to suggest because I was

on
her side at that age, not yours. Send her to me for a month and she can
find out what the reality is of being a single, teen parent, and having 2
babies long before her 18th birthday.

There's a lot you can use to fill up her time, like said before, sports
teams, music lessons, teen church groups, rehab, since that's something

she
just might need, and if not right now, almost definitely in the near

future
if she keeps being so wild and a danger to herself, mainly, and those who
actually do love her and care for her, and really, this little boyfriend

of
hers does not appear to actually care for her.

I don't know. If anyone wants to flame, flame away. I've been through

the
EXACT same thing, as the wild teen, so I can definitely relate on a very
high level, but as far as suggestions go, I'm all out of them.
How about the time you are going to be away (although I'm not sure why

you'd
go away, unless, of course, it is absolutely necessary) you can ship her

off
to me and she can have a small taste of what could be reality. lol

(j/k)

Hey, Kat... hugs to you for speaking out about your own life to help
someone else. Nothing beats the voice of experience.

Yes...thanks.


  #14  
Old March 12th 04, 04:10 AM
Tiffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend


Daniel daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom wrote in message
...
"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

Daniel daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom wrote in message
...
Wow....

That is commendable that you are taking care of your sister. I am going

to
leave the issues about getting evidence against the boyfriend to others

who
may have dealt with the police in something like this. I will suggest

that
its likely even if you do get this boyfriend put away, there will just

be
another one to fill his void. This 14 year old has many issues going on.
Abuse? Neglect? A father that doesn't care, ect. She is only 14 but it
sounds as though she has WAY to much freedom. Kids will do bad things if
they have to much free time. I image you are working, as most of us have

to
do and that it makes it hard for you to be with her all the time. First,

she
needs to be seeing someone professional. She is drinking, doing drugs

and
I
hate to say this, I would bet it all she is having sex. Second, get her
involved in some positive activities. Sports, community stuff, anything

that
is around there. Third, I know we are need a break but you are leaving

for
spring break when you know that she is going to go wild. You took the

parent
role, its a full time job.

She has had activities in school...she dropped them for him & wont pick up
more. Cancling this trip isn't an option at this point so thats why I've
taken the proper precautions there & she will be watched very closely
(beleive it or not, I HAVE done ALLOT before posting here...this wasn't my
first attempt to get help). Dont take this as a flame any more than your
last sentence was a flame.



I am not taking anything as a flame..... just offering suggestions. No one
has assumed that you did nothing before posting here..... We can't know
exactly what all has been done so we start at the first steps.

But has she been to a professional yet? Also... .try a more technical type
newsgroup for all that spy stuff. I am sure they are out there. They will
have tons of knowledge.

As more of the story unfolds though, I can't help but feel for her. She is
hurting, probably screaming inside, even depressed. This dickhead makes her
feel special. You are so new in her life that she might not trust you
completely yet. Heck, by the sounds of it, she might not be able to trust
many people at all.




  #15  
Old March 12th 04, 05:13 AM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:41 -0600, "Daniel"
daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom wrote:

[snip]

She already knows I'm asking for help...problem is she is beyond caring
about it.


Hi Daniel. First, let me tell you that what you are doing for your
sister is a critically important thing, and I admire you greatly for
it. I think that what you say above is wrong, though. I think that she
almost certainly *does* care, but hell if she'll let you know that.

I can't pretend to be able to tell you what to do. I can tell you a
little about what I've done myself, and hope it helps. I think Kat had
a lot of very helpful input and her insight pretty much fits with my
own, though from a different angle.

I have two daughters who are now 16 1/2 and nearly 19. The younger one
was abducted on her way to school and raped at knifepoint for a few
hours, while handcuffed and confined. Prior to that, she was a
youngish prepubertal 13 year old, very eager to please and sweet
natured. After the rape, she completely lost the plot, and although it
was a year before I knew what was wrong, I suddenly had a raging,
defiant teenager. I was nailing her windows shut to keep her from
jumping out. On one occasion, with her prior agreement, I tried
locking her in her room and she kicked down the door. There were
suicide attempts and there was a lot of taking off and going God knew
where. She's since told me she used to sit by the river and
contemplate going in. I absolutely *hated* the people she was hanging
out with. I was terrified that she was abusing drugs and/or alcohol.

Things are completely turned around now. She's in school, she's
working at a job caring for a disabled child, she's very much on
track. She continues to have some significant issues around sexuality,
which isn't at all surprising, and in her case, that means I don't
have your worry of early sexual activity. She's also in therapy and
working hard on dealing with the things she still struggles with.
Overall we have an excellent relationship involving a lot of mutual
trust. She's still a teenager, and she still ****es me off on
occasion, but it's most often pretty normal parent-kid stuff at this
point.

I made plenty of mistakes and I know, believe me, how excruciating it
is to be in the middle of this. It really *hurts* to watch a child you
love suffer and it hurts doubly when they express that by lashing out
at you, their primary support system. I can't begin to describe the
grief and betrayal and anger and frustration I felt.

So here are some of the things I learned, and wish I had known back
then, for whatever they're worth. Take what's useful and ignore the
rest.

- Even when they are especially horrible, maybe especially when
they're as awful as they know how to be, they *do* care what you say
and do and feel. They will do anything to keep you from thinking that,
but they *do care*. There was one time very shortly before T's
hospitalisation and disclosure of the rape, where she ran away to a
girlfriend's home. I didn't like the mother and felt it was a grossly
unhealthy place, and so I went to get her back. The mother let me in
but was hostile. The home had nine cats in it, and I have a history of
being so allergic to cats I can't even be in the room with one. When T
refused to come home, I said, "Ok, fine, I can't make you. But I won't
go without you." And I sat down crosslegged on the floor and waited
four hours, until she gave up and came home. She yelled at me
intermittently through that and I just kept saying, "I love you and I
won't go home without you." I now know, that although at the time she
was actually trying to get me to let her move out and even tried to
get Social Services to put her in foster care, the fact that I stuck
that night out meant a huge amount to her. She was so hurt and angry
because of what she was going through, that she couldn't begin to
express or even recognise what she needed, and the love I had for her.
But that night and other times like it were a part of what got through
to her that no matter *what* she did I was going to love her and she
wasn't going to get rid of me.

- I'm all in favour of surveillance software, but like ?John?, I think
the best possible use of it is to tell the kid flat out that you're
using it. I told mine that I was installing it and that she should
tell everyone she talked with that I had done so, and then they should
conduct themselves as if I was standing in the room listening to
everything they said. My daughter accepted this because at the time
she was being quite brutally bullied, and she knew that I needed
evidence to protect her, which I got. I realise that your situation is
quite different in that respect, and I understand that you're trying
to gather information for a conviction. What I suggest you do, without
myself having any judgement one way or another, is to think through
what your goals are, in what order. I would imagine your top priority
is to protect her, and that charging this guy is a poor second, unless
in some fashion it aids in the protection goal. If that's right...if
'getting' him is secondary to her protection, you might want to
consider whether there are ways you can use the things you've talked
about, including surveillance that *she knows about* to reduce her
contact with the guy. I don't know. Just something to toss around.
Here's the software I used: http://www.spywaredirectory.com/starr.asp

- There is no way in the world to control a teenager who doesn't want
to be controlled. There really isn't. People who think there is have
never dealt with a truly unwilling to be controlled teen. I agree with
some that most teens want to be controlled on some level, but I also
know that there is *no controlling* a teen who chooses to resist hard
enough. So the secret seems to be, or was for us, anyway, to get buy
in by *showing* the love you have and the reasons you do what you do.
That, I think, is what my sitting in that house that night was a part
of. (BTW, I had so much natural adrenaline in my body, I never even
reacted to all those cats.) But it's not just things like that. It's
the relentlessness of loving them when they seem wholly unlovable
that I think finally gets through, if anything does. It's making them
a lunch that you know they won't eat, and telling them you love them
and want them to eat it and you're going to make it just in case
(yeah, yeah, I know 14 year olds can make their own lunches, but I'm
talking about how you can show them that your money is where your
mouth is). It's telling them you're going to put software on their
computer for their protection no matter how angry it makes them,
because you love them enough to withstand their anger. In my case,
there were times when I physically restrained my daughter to keep her
from doing dangerous things, and that was very hard and I would then
hold her until she cried in my arms. Gotta be careful with that, but
when you're in the trenches, you sometimes go where you never thought
you would. (special note: I have training and certification in non
violent holds, so YMMV) Anyway, ultimately, the only control you will
ever have is control that they buy into, because they recognise that
you truly do have their best interests at heart. And that doesn't come
easily when they've been badly hurt. They don't believe *anyone* can
have their best interests at heart. They are wounded, and like wounded
animals, they lash out at the nearest being. All you can do is to let
them know how much you care and to tell them what you see and why it
hurts.

- Consistency helps a lot. Keeping your expectations very predictable,
enforcing very predictably, setting out what you're going to do and
why in advance of problems, all help. They help partly because then
the teen gets a sense of order in their world, and that's the first
step towards wanting order in their world, and finding ways of their
own to make it happen. That is, developing self control.

- Showing as little anger as possible is a very good idea. It's also
damned near impossible a lot of the time. But if you can keep calm
when they're moving heaven and earth to punch your buttons, you
maintain your credibility and your own control and they eventually
come to respect that. Passive, subverted anger counts as anger.

- Making your consequences as logical and natural as possible is very
helpful. This has the effect of removing you from the role of 'bad
guy' a lot of the time. So, for example, when my daughter kicked in
her door, I waited until she was much calmer (about a week, as I
recall), and then I taught her how to repair the door. It was so
damaged that it was only partly fixable, and that meant it didn't
close properly. And that was a consequence that mattered to her. When
she was in the company of a girl who had shoplifted and hidden the
goods in her bag, I told her that she clearly needed protection from
finding stolen goods in her bag, and that therefore she was going to
have me in her company, or an adult of my choosing, for the next two
weeks, at which time we would review whether her behaviour indicated a
respect for her own safety during that time. (this was much easier for
me to enforce where we lived, because we were in a rural and isolated
place and she couldn't get too far without help). I even volunteered
to chaperone the high school dance so that she could go to it. Sure,
she could've taken off from the dance without telling me. By that
time, she was beginning at some level to realise she did need me to be
in charge, I think, because she didn't do that.

- Plan your consequences in advance, so that as often as possible, you
already know what you're going to do when she defies you. Make them
realistic. Try not to threaten, but just state the consequences when
she shows signs of breaking the rules, then follow through as calmly
as possible after she does so.

- Try not to carry a grudge from one incident to the next. They change
their mood literally in seconds, and much of the time literally don't
realise that you're still on what happened ten minutes ago.

- She's sexually active. My daughter who was hurt isn't, largely
because the nature of the crime against her was so horrific that the
thought frightens her, and that's come in useful at the moment
although it'll take a whack of therapy to get past that for later.
Anyway, my elder daughter certainly is. I figured as soon as she was,
my best bet was to pay for the birth control and condoms, and make
sure she had 'em, because at least that way they're safe. Obviously
you don't want to condone teen sex, but once it's already underway,
you need damage control, IMO.

- This guy will dump her. Or she'll have had enough of him and she'll
dump him. At that point, you don't want her to be afraid to tell you
or reluctant to do the dumping because she thinks you'll say "I told
you so." You're right, he's out of line, and sure, you might be able
to make legal trouble for him, but the real issue here is trying to
make sure you have her trust for when the inevitable happens and she
needs you to pick up the pieces. Because at THAT point, she stands to
learn something from her experience if you can help her interpret it,
whereas otherwise, she'll likely go on to repeat the mistake. So think
about how you can let her know that you object not because you think
her judgement sucks or because you want control over her, but because
you're genuinely concerned. Let her know that you want to be there for
her whether or not you agree with her choices and whether or not she
thinks she needs your advice.

Holy cow, this post is way, way too long. I could write a book. I
actually am thinking about it. LOL I'm going to stop. Consider a look
at a book called, "How to Deal With Your Acting-Out Teenager"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...roduct-details
I found it was the only book I read on the subject (and I read a lot
of 'em!) that really 'got' what this was like and had realistic,
sensible advice.

I hope that as long as it's been to wade through, if you made it this
far, this is some help somewhere. My heart goes out to you. The good
news is, their brains *really are* different and they really *do*
change and get better. They have far, far too many neural connections
at 13 and 14 and those prune down between then and the end of the
teens. So if you can just keep her healthy, it will most likely get
better. And after you've been through all this and gone the course,
you'll know it was worth it. I do. Mine's doing well, and it does feel
good to know that I've been a part of that.

Try to take care of yourself too. You've taken on an awful lot. She's
lucky to have a big brother who cares so much. Some kids don't have
that, and the kids without anyone are the kids who get lost....

Be well.

Cele
  #16  
Old March 12th 04, 02:43 PM
Daniel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend

'Kate wrote in message ...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:09:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom

The only reason I've not done this yet is so that I can have some way to
keep watch over what is going on...I've had her phone suspended at times
which forces her into typing (into a log). The problem is that the one
being controlled actually has the ultimate controll...they can always

decide
to go against you, no matter how the consiquences are (even someone being
held at gunpoint has the choice to die)...& if they just dont care (she
doesnt) then how do you handle that one?


Yes, they can decide to go against you and then, you can decide to take
away their privileges. Their actions must have consequences. They don't
get privileges before they earn them. If she wants to visit a friend,
she'll have to do something to earn it. If she wants to watch TV, she
has to keep her room clean. If she wants to get on the 'net for an
hour, she will have to clean up after dinner. If she's parking online
for hours at a time, that has to end. Ration it. All you have to
provide is a roof over her head, food on the table, a way to get to
school, medical care, and season appropriate clothing. Extras are "The
Gap", the computer, TV, the phone, visits to friends. Believe me, she
will care if you take those privileges away.

Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much
left to take...

The computer is not your window into her personal life. Your window is
communication with her - directly. You're her support system. You, her
teachers, and the community that helps teens. If you fail, the rest of
the system better not. You need people *with* you... on your side to
help her to regain her self-respect and self-control.

You have to be positive - that things are not great now but they can be
better... or they can get worse. That part is up to her. Small
successes count. She needs goals that are worthwhile and will give her
a sense of accomplishment.

I think you're going to have to involve her school: teachers and
counselors. They need to set goals for her that are realistic. Her
grades need to be improved. If she improves her grades, she can watch
an hour of TV nightly, if not, then she cannot. You will have to check
in with the teachers so arrange a weekly/bimonthly time to call. Yes,
it's more punishment for the parent/guardian but you need to be strong
for her right now. Her life has sucked and she has had to be too
strong, too adult, all too soon. Once she gets the hang of behaving and
attending to her schoolwork, you can slack off a little. Your goal with
school should be to get her to handle it on her own.

Other community members can help too. Contact your local Boys and Girls
Club, for example, and find out what's going on there. Talk to someone
and tell them what you're dealing with and get suggestions. Talk to the
clergy of your house of worship. See if they have community service
that she can participate in that will make her realize that others have
problems too. Consider family counseling. Strongly consider it. You
both need support and they can see what we cannot because we're too
close to the overall picture.

Most importantly, talk to her. Do not confront her and constantly tell
her how awful she is (not saying you are). Praise the good things -
even more in the beginning than you think is "normal". Praise
initiative, "I appreciate it when you clean up after dinner," for
example. There is a balance between what she needs as encouragement
and what she needs as discipline.

I've NOT been telling her how bad she is...& like I said, the problem wasn't
from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her
teachers (have had problems contacting them though). Other activities dont
work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me) for
him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings &
sacrifices to him next.

The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him,
getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she
was before meeting him.

You're stepping into all this in the middle. I know that's extremely
difficult. You've got just a few years to help her turn her life
around and it is a huge sacrifice. I don't know how you're managing to
feel like you're not overwhelmed. What do you do for yourself? Who is
on your side?

'Kate



  #17  
Old March 12th 04, 02:57 PM
Tiffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend


Daniel daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom wrote in message
...
'Kate wrote in message

...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:09:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom

The only reason I've not done this yet is so that I can have some way

to
keep watch over what is going on...I've had her phone suspended at

times
which forces her into typing (into a log). The problem is that the one
being controlled actually has the ultimate controll...they can always

decide
to go against you, no matter how the consiquences are (even someone

being
held at gunpoint has the choice to die)...& if they just dont care (she
doesnt) then how do you handle that one?


Yes, they can decide to go against you and then, you can decide to take
away their privileges. Their actions must have consequences. They don't
get privileges before they earn them. If she wants to visit a friend,
she'll have to do something to earn it. If she wants to watch TV, she
has to keep her room clean. If she wants to get on the 'net for an
hour, she will have to clean up after dinner. If she's parking online
for hours at a time, that has to end. Ration it. All you have to
provide is a roof over her head, food on the table, a way to get to
school, medical care, and season appropriate clothing. Extras are "The
Gap", the computer, TV, the phone, visits to friends. Believe me, she
will care if you take those privileges away.

Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't

much
left to take...


Been there with my daughter too. The situation wasn't like yours (the boy)
but she was trying to lie about everything it seemed. She had no phone, no
PC, no music, no nothing fun unless it was with me. She is a little younger
though but I was at that point where there was nothing left to take. It blew
over somehow. I think that the dickhead will mess up and break her heart and
she will become more like the girl you started out with. What I am sure
scares you most is how far it will go before that happens.


  #18  
Old March 12th 04, 04:36 PM
Joelle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend

Believe me, she
will care if you take those privileges away.

Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't much
left to take...


You've taken away EVERYTHING? So now she's sleeping on a mattress on a floor?

I've been reading your responses and you seem to discard everything people say
but insisting you've done it or it won't work. Not sure if anyone can help you
if that's true. I

the main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met him,
getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way she
was before meeting him.


Nope that is not the main problem and the problem is that you see the problem
is all this guy and if it wasnt for this terrible guy she'd be fine. She
wasn't fine before this or she would not have been attracted to him. People
are attracted to people for a reason. She CHOSE him. Healthy, well adjusted,
self-confident, girls don't choose guys like that. That's the mistake people
make when they see people choosing jerk boyfriends and girlfriends. They blame
it all on the jerk. If you don't deal with the reason she wants a jerk, she'll
just find another one.

Yea I know, I'm wrong, you've done that, tried that...won't work. It's
hopeless. Whatever.

Joelle


The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle
  #20  
Old March 12th 04, 06:45 PM
P.Fritz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 14yr old girl, 19yr old boyfriend


"lm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0600, 'Kate wrote:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:43:47 -0600, "Daniel" daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom

Been doing that...the reason I say it doesn't work is that there isn't

much
left to take...


Yeah, just the internet and the phone. Consistancy, routine, and
dependability will have to do then. If her relationship with you is
easier than her relationship with the 19 year old, then she'll be more
likely to give that up.



I've NOT been telling her how bad she is...


I figured you weren't overtly telling her that she was but because I
have no way of knowing that, I felt strongly about putting it out there
and letting you deny it.

& like I said, the problem wasn't
from the start, it only happened before this guy. I do keep up with her
teachers (have had problems contacting them though).


I'm glad to hear that you are. It's very important. They can fax you if
you can't keep in touch with them via phone.

Other activities dont
work, tried them, she dropped EVERYTHING (even communication with me)

for
him. The problem is preventing her to build the alter to make offerings

&
sacrifices to him next.


Or finding ways to open communication up between you again. She
doesn't, I'm sure, want to feel like she's doing everything wrong and
that she should be beholden to you (even if she is). We all need some
pride. He is giving her something that she needs or he wouldn't be able
to influence her. She is probably putting out to get what she needs
emotionally - to be appreciated and feel loved for who she is and not
someone else's ideal of who she should be or what she should be doing.
"I love you but" is the worst phrase I've ever heard.

I think you're going to have to enlist her help in providing what she
needs from you. Outright ask her, aside from carte blanche with her
boyfriend, what one thing would improve your relationship with her.
Start there and make sure you get something out of it. For example, if
you give her X, then you want Y in return.


The main problem is taking someone who was doing good before they met

him,
getting them to realize what they're in, & then reversing her to the way

she
was before meeting him.


I don't think you can stuff her back into the pre-teen box. The 19 year
old has influence over her. This has become a fight and she's rooting
for the other side. If she sees an effort from you to change the
present, then maybe, in time she will meet you more than half-way.

This hasn't been just since the boyfriend, BTW. There were problems
before that directly relate to what is going on now. All the blame is
not the boyfriend's. The solution is not just get rid of the boyfriend.
The solution is to fix the problems that resulted in her feeling that a
19 year old boyfriend is appropriate.


Yes, definitely. Daniel, you and she had no time to establish a
relationship before all this happened. So unfortunately you don't know
each other well, don't have a give-and-take, don't have basic rules
for around the house. You're reacting to each other and to events. You
need to take a breather from the power struggle that's going on and
talk/listen to each other. Is there someone local, maybe with the
foster care agency, who can serve as a social worker/mediator? You
can't parent by surveillance, I understand your need to document this
guy's predatory behavior, but as far as working with her, you need to
communicate face to face.


I wouldn't necessarily label the guy a predator, sounds more like a jerk
that can't establish a relationship with someone his own age, or perhaps has
the maturity of a 14 y.o.

And I also get tired of people lumping them together with
pedophiles..............a 14 y.o. girl while emotionally immature is
phyically an adult. Hell, a century ago, that was 'marrying' age.



Good luck.

lm



 




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