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Dr. Sarah shrugs as little penises are ripped and sliced en masse.



 
 
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  #41  
Old January 6th 05, 03:24 PM
anyone4tea
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Todd, thanks for listening to us. Your answer here is much more
coherent and readable.

Is your effort a single-person effort or are you aligned with others,
en masse, who are politically moving to create more awareness of your
issues?

anyone4tea

  #42  
Old January 6th 05, 04:52 PM
Todd Gastaldo
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KELLY JUST NOT PAYING ATTENTION?

Kelly wrote:

I don't get the title [Kelly Pretends; Jamie Agrees]. What am I
pretending? Oh, to not pay attention to you on this thread currently?


Kelly,

As I noted (see below), if you really believe what you indicated, then you
aren't pretending.

Not paying attention is another possibility.

Todd

PS Here again is the post in question...the relevant excerpt anyway...

KELLY PRETENDS; JAMIE AGREES

Kelly wrote:

Todd,
I wonder how often you are working in labor and delivery and in a newborn
nursery? Do you in person see all these things you claim? Also, are
doctors doing circs without consent? I highly doubt it-it is a choice of
parents, so the parents are requesting this to be done.


Kelly pretends that I must work in labor and delivery to know that OBs are
routinely closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping them closed when babies
get stuck.

Kelly also pretends that MDs obtain consent before ripping and slicing
infant penises en masse and that it is ethical for MDs to rip and slice
infant penises en masse.

See I don't need to see the MD felonies...
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...4cf50194d30983

Perhaps Kelly isn't pretending?

Perhaps Kelly really believes, for example, that one must work in labor and
delivery to know that OBs are routinely closing birth canals up to 30%,
etc.?

Kelly offered no substantiation for her inferences/pretenses and she hasn't
replied to my post...

[Jan. 6, 2005 update: Kelly STILL hasn't offered any substantiation for her
inferences/pretenses that these grisly things aren't happening. Her
emoticonned reply (see above) was cute though.]

snip

Todd


  #43  
Old January 7th 05, 09:25 AM
Daye
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On 5 Jan 2005 15:40:51 -0700, Larry McMahan
wrote:

You are a real sweetheart with a LOTS of patience.


Thank you, Larry! This made me smile when I read it.

--
Daye
Mommy to:
DD - age 3
DS - age 1
  #44  
Old January 7th 05, 09:33 AM
Daye
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On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0800, "Kelly"
wrote:

I do think his *one* point is valid, but the way he goes about it is
entirely offensive and makes most people turn away. That is a very
ineffective method of obtaining people to support his cause.


He does have several points if you read his posts. Most of the post
do center around the 30% issue, but he has others as well.

You are right. He can be ineffective, but he is trying and learning.
Things in his favor are that he does admit when he is wrong, and he
will debate (rather than flame) you about issues.

I have yet to read
about anything he has actually *done* regarding his cause. Does he go to
childbirth classes as a guest speaker to discuss alt. positions for
delivery? Does he give talks to OB's and providers?


You don't consider his posts to pregnant women doing anything? I do.
He is trying to educate the very people who can help stop the problem
-- the women giving birth. I also know that he takes on medical
professionals head on on other ngs to help get them to see his side.

As for doing work with childbirth classes and giving talks to OBs, you
will have to ask Todd. I don't know.

I will say one thing though. I try to do a lot of educating about
Post Natal Depression -- both in real life and online. I admit that I
am sometimes more effective in getting my message across. Todd and I
have different styles and personalities.

However, I have reached a hell of a lot more people online with my PND
education than I have in real life. The reason is simple. I can
reach more different from many walks of life online than I could ever
do in real life. Yes, I do the real life stuff, but my message is
received by more people with a single post on mkp. Maybe this is what
Todd thinks as well.

--
Daye
Mommy to:
DD - age 3
DS - age 1
  #45  
Old January 7th 05, 09:58 AM
Daye
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 02:55:06 GMT, "Todd Gastaldo"
wrote:

I want to change the world, Larry.


Good on ya, Todd! We need more people who want to change the world.
Some lyrics are coming to mind with this statement. I will give them
to you to ponder:

"I'd love to change the world, but I don't know what to do... so, I'm
leaving it up to you..."

As you know, I want OBs to stop various obvious crimes.

How can I say it so that this grisly obstetric tomfoolery ACTUALLY ends
tomorrow (or today!)?


Todd, the point is that you can't. You can only change the world one
person at a time. You got me on your side. I got your message, and I
help you spread the word. It is very much a "Pay It Forward" idea.

I don't like Michael Jackson, but he has a profound idea when he
sings, "I'm starting with the man in the mirror. I'm asking him to
change his ways, and no message could have been any clearer. If you
want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and
make a change."

Maybe you need to change the way you approach this issue and how you
put your ideas out there. Several people have complained that they
don't like the way you present things. Take that on board, and try to
figure out different ways to present your ideas. Some people claim
that you butt in and take over threads. Think about starting your own
threads with your message so that people don't feel like you have
hijacked the thread. Some people complain that they don't like it
when you quote them directly or you call them out in your subjects
(and this is a valid complaint). Try to find a different way to
confront the issues that those people raise without turning them
against you.

Last, but not least, a lot of people complain about the length of your
posts. I have brought this up as a problem before too. You were
trying "Mini Me" posts. I think those were quite effective. You are
a very verbose man. You have a lot of information to share. My DH is
a verbose man. I am not usually verbose. In fact, I am usually too
blunt. However, if you can get your message down to fewer statements
that convey a lot of information, you will get more people reading
your posts. (BTW, I know that a few statements with a lot of info
isn't an easy thing to write, but try.)

Could you ask your hippy friends for phraseology that will do the trick? : )


Well, I have a few hippie friends and I know what they would tell you.
Smoke a joint and chill out (*Disclaimer: Of course, that is illegal,
and I would never tell you to do that.*). You can make a difference,
but you also need to kick back and think about what you want to say
and how you want to say it.

Remember, as the Beatles said, "Turn off your mind. Relax and float
down stream. This is not dying... Lay down all thoughts, surrender to
the void. It is shining... Yet you may see the meaning of within, it
is being."

--
Daye
Mommy to:
DD - age 3
DS - age 1
  #46  
Old January 7th 05, 07:09 PM
Larry McMahan
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Lady,

You are awesome! You can give me advice ANY time!!!

Larry
  #47  
Old January 7th 05, 11:42 PM
Daye
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On 7 Jan 2005 11:09:32 -0700, Larry McMahan
wrote:

You are awesome! You can give me advice ANY time!!!


Thank you, Larry! This really brought a smile to my face. I haven't
seen many instances where you need advice, but you can ask me for it
whenever you feel that you need it. I do what I can where I can.

--
Daye
Mommy to:
DD - age 3
DS - age 1
  #48  
Old January 8th 05, 06:01 AM
Kelly
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I agree that his message is getting across, but over and over again here
with long choppy messages gets old and may people have killfiled him. I
find him offensive and tactless about 75% of the time-he says the same thing
over and over so I stop reading his posts (because I know what his point is
by now!) I also dislike how he uses posters full name and includes them in
"his" topics then blasts many of them.

He does reach and teach a lot of online people and that is great. But a
more gentle less threatening and annoying way would help.


"Daye" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0800, "Kelly"
wrote:

I do think his *one* point is valid, but the way he goes about it is
entirely offensive and makes most people turn away. That is a very
ineffective method of obtaining people to support his cause.


He does have several points if you read his posts. Most of the post
do center around the 30% issue, but he has others as well.

You are right. He can be ineffective, but he is trying and learning.
Things in his favor are that he does admit when he is wrong, and he
will debate (rather than flame) you about issues.

I have yet to read
about anything he has actually *done* regarding his cause. Does he go to
childbirth classes as a guest speaker to discuss alt. positions for
delivery? Does he give talks to OB's and providers?


You don't consider his posts to pregnant women doing anything? I do.
He is trying to educate the very people who can help stop the problem
-- the women giving birth. I also know that he takes on medical
professionals head on on other ngs to help get them to see his side.

As for doing work with childbirth classes and giving talks to OBs, you
will have to ask Todd. I don't know.

I will say one thing though. I try to do a lot of educating about
Post Natal Depression -- both in real life and online. I admit that I
am sometimes more effective in getting my message across. Todd and I
have different styles and personalities.

However, I have reached a hell of a lot more people online with my PND
education than I have in real life. The reason is simple. I can
reach more different from many walks of life online than I could ever
do in real life. Yes, I do the real life stuff, but my message is
received by more people with a single post on mkp. Maybe this is what
Todd thinks as well.

--
Daye
Mommy to:
DD - age 3
DS - age 1



  #49  
Old January 8th 05, 07:55 AM
external usenet poster
 
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I'm agree with you Kelly.... but we can too try to accept the people as
they are.

  #50  
Old January 8th 05, 12:59 PM
Todd Gastaldo
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KELLY - AND COMMENTS FOR DAYE...

"Kelly" wrote in message
...
I agree that his message is getting across,


Thank you, Kelly.

but over and over again here with long choppy messages gets old and may
people have killfiled him. I find him offensive and tactless about 75% of
the time-he says the same thing over and over so I stop reading his posts
(because I know what his point is by now!)


I have NO problem being killfiled - none whatsoever!

I hope that after people killfile me, they at least tell pregnant women in
their circle of family and friends that OBs are closing birth canals up to
30% and that it easy for them to allow their birth canals to open the
"extra" up to 30%.

I also dislike how he uses posters full name and includes them in "his"
topics then blasts many of them.


I generally only "blast" when I myself have been blasted. I do not
apologize for using people's full names.

I am glad you put "his" in quotes Kelly. "My" topics/"my" causes - they are
not "mine."

OBs are committing a serious CRIME - closing birth canals up to 30% and
keeping birth canals closed when babies get stuck...

EVERYONE can - and should - tell pregnant women about this - and the fact
that it is easy for pregnant women to allow their birth canals to open the
"extra" up to 30%.

He does reach and teach a lot of online people and that is great.


Again, thank you, Kelly.

But a more gentle less threatening and annoying way would help.


Women don't like hearing that their OBs are committing an obvious crime.

This is threatening to OBs - and uncomfortable for women to hear about their
OBs.

But it is true: OBs are threatening babies' very lives and limbs with their
atrocious birth behavior.

OBs are LYING to cover-up.

Shoot at the messenger if you must - but he is not going to go away - not as
long as he perceives misc.kids.pregnancy as a place where new pregnant women
come.

Todd


"Daye" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0800, "Kelly"
wrote:

I do think his *one* point is valid, but the way he goes about it is
entirely offensive and makes most people turn away. That is a very
ineffective method of obtaining people to support his cause.


He does have several points if you read his posts. Most of the post
do center around the 30% issue, but he has others as well.

You are right. He can be ineffective, but he is trying and learning.
Things in his favor are that he does admit when he is wrong, and he
will debate (rather than flame) you about issues.

I have yet to read
about anything he has actually *done* regarding his cause. Does he go to
childbirth classes as a guest speaker to discuss alt. positions for
delivery? Does he give talks to OB's and providers?


You don't consider his posts to pregnant women doing anything? I do.
He is trying to educate the very people who can help stop the problem
-- the women giving birth. I also know that he takes on medical
professionals head on on other ngs to help get them to see his side.

As for doing work with childbirth classes and giving talks to OBs, you
will have to ask Todd. I don't know.


Daye,

Via email and newsgroups, I reach childbirth educators, doulas, midwives,
OBs, etc. DIRECTLY - QUICKLY.

If childbirth educators, doulas, midwives, OBs, etc. choose not to offer
this info to women, that is THEIR choice - they are not going to want ME
talking to women about it.

Think about that last sentence. This info is SIMPLE - many have
acknowledged this - but prominent OBs (and prominent midwives) have REJECTED
it. Indeed OBs and midwives are PROMOTING birth-canal-closing/semisitting.

I think it most bizarre that Kelly whines (incorrectly) that **I** am being
"annoying" and "threatening."

OBs and midwives are committing assault and battery!

No, it's not "politically correct" to point out the criminal behavior of OBs
and the midwives who ape them...

But it's also not "politically correct" to hang mothers and babies out to
dry.


I will say one thing though. I try to do a lot of educating about
Post Natal Depression -- both in real life and online. I admit that I
am sometimes more effective in getting my message across. Todd and I
have different styles and personalities.


Daye, when you approach PREVENTION of Post Natal Depression - via the
"difficult labor" association - you will run up against the same brick wall.

See Birth psychiatry ('Baby Blues': Are OBs causing some cases?)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3123

I am not creating this brick wall.

It is THERE.

OBs are committing CRIME - and midwives are blithely aping them and
PROMOTING the crime.

Most bizarre.


However, I have reached a hell of a lot more people online with my PND
education than I have in real life. The reason is simple. I can
reach more different from many walks of life online than I could ever
do in real life. Yes, I do the real life stuff, but my message is
received by more people with a single post on mkp. Maybe this is what
Todd thinks as well.


Yep.

Thanks Daye.

I wish you luck in your PND education.

Todd


 




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