Disagreement about third child

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article ,
dragonlady says...

I always take the desire to have kids seriously, but these are issues
between the two adults, and I feel pretty strongly that breaking up a
child's home (thus hurting the child or children you already have)
because of this particular disagreement is a Bad Thing.

OK, but then someone has to 'win'. There's no half-child, and a dog doesn't
do.
So who wins?

Banty


The kids who still have their parents living together.


Yeah, so. Here and below, you avoid addressing the issue.


One of the things I learned a long time ago is that in a loving
relationship, if a dispute ends up with a "winner", in the long run both
lose.

There IS no winner between the parents -- either way, one of them
doesn't get what they completely want. However, grownups find ways to
deal with the disappointments in life -- IMHO, they should be more
concerned about how it effects the kids they already have, and finding a
way to stay together AND manage to be content with whatever decision is
made -- with the help, perhaps, of some significant counseling --
matters more than anything else.


OK - so who gets what they want?? Who bears dissapointment for the sake of the
marriage and the existing children? The least dominant or milder-mannered? The
one without a uterus? The one bringing in the least income? Who who? How far
should it go to assure this decision? Should someone undergo surgery to prevent
conception? Then who? If a third is conceived accidentally, who makes the
changes? Can the marriage survive that - whatever the outcome of that scenario
is?

I'm not saying there are any answers, but it isn't sufficient at all to leave it
with the marriage needing to stay intact.

And counselling doesn't fix everything.

Banty

In article .com,
" wrote:

dragonlady wrote:
In article . com,
" wrote:

IOW, would someone who would leave a
spouse because the spouse declined to have more kids also leave the
spouse if the spouse was UNABLE to have more kids?

Well I DID know I guy (I'll decline to call him a friend) who left
his
wife WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL following sugery to remove her
uterus
due to cancer, because he wanted children and she couldn't have them
now....

Bleah.

Well, I guess it does happen, but I bet it's rarer.

Beth


One would hope...
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

dragonlady wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

dragonlady wrote:
In article
. com,
" wrote:

IOW, would someone who would leave a
spouse because the spouse declined to have more kids also leave
the
spouse if the spouse was UNABLE to have more kids?

Well I DID know I guy (I'll decline to call him a friend) who
left
his
wife WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL following sugery to remove her
uterus
due to cancer, because he wanted children and she couldn't have
them
now....

Bleah.

Well, I guess it does happen, but I bet it's rarer.

Beth


One would hope...

Actually, I should clarify. I don't necessarily think there's anything
evil with someone who really wants kids leaving a childless marriage to
have kids, even if the problem is physical rather than emotional. I
would hope in such a case that this condition had been made clear
during the courting process, but neverthless it's between two adults.
I set the bar much higher when an existing child or children are
involved.

Leaving someone for really any reason other than abuse while they're in
the hospital having surgery for cancer is just awful no matter what
else is involved. Leaving someone who wanted to have kids with you
because they were stricken with cancer and can't do it any more is
cold, but at the very least have the decency to nurse the person
through the recuperation process.

Beth

wrote in message

Leaving someone for really any reason other than abuse while they're in
the hospital having surgery for cancer is just awful no matter what
else is involved. Leaving someone who wanted to have kids with you
because they were stricken with cancer and can't do it any more is
cold, but at the very least have the decency to nurse the person
through the recuperation process.

No doubt.. ..that is a really disgusting thing to do. Unbelievable.

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
My experience is that it just isn't as bad as most assume. I'm not trying
to talk you into a 3rd kid--that's obviously between you and your wife.

"lenny fackler" wrote in message
Seems like everyone I know who has 3 kids _does_ try to talk us into
it. I'm not buying it. I think it's a trick ;-)

I have three and I won't talk you into having a third.)

Some people have it easy and others have it a little harder. I'm in the
latter company and it definitely has not been easy (it was actually easier
when they were smaller). With their current ages as they are, they fight
ALL the time and hormones are raging. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
Traveling is not easy either and I don't care how easy Barbara makes it
sound. Air-fair is expensive for a family of five and going anywhere is a
production, so we stick to beaches and camping ourselves, which is fun for
us anyway, so no one is missing out. My kids don't travel well, so that
could be a factor for us.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Circe" wrote in message
Haven't people ever heard of
DOING LAUNDRY?

On vacation, no way. That's why I'm on vacation, to get get a break from all
that stuff. I'd rather have more stuff to carry.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article ,
dragonlady says...

I always take the desire to have kids seriously, but these are issues
between the two adults, and I feel pretty strongly that breaking up a
child's home (thus hurting the child or children you already have)
because of this particular disagreement is a Bad Thing.

OK, but then someone has to 'win'. There's no half-child, and a dog
doesn't
do.
So who wins?

Banty


The kids who still have their parents living together.


Yeah, so. Here and below, you avoid addressing the issue.


One of the things I learned a long time ago is that in a loving
relationship, if a dispute ends up with a "winner", in the long run both
lose.

There IS no winner between the parents -- either way, one of them
doesn't get what they completely want. However, grownups find ways to
deal with the disappointments in life -- IMHO, they should be more
concerned about how it effects the kids they already have, and finding a
way to stay together AND manage to be content with whatever decision is
made -- with the help, perhaps, of some significant counseling --
matters more than anything else.


OK - so who gets what they want?? Who bears dissapointment for the sake of
the
marriage and the existing children? The least dominant or milder-mannered?
The
one without a uterus?

You work it out with a therapist. There is no "right" answer, and if
either feels they have "won", then they both lose in the long run.

There is no way for me to answer this for any couple other than DH and
myself -- or for you, either.

I'm saying there IS no "winning" and "losing", except that if you manage
to work it out somehow -- and I'd hope people would -- the kids already
in the marriage are the real winners. And if you don't, and you split
up, the kids are the real losers, even if both adults end up with what
they want in terms of more kids.

The one bringing in the least income? Who who? How
far
should it go to assure this decision? Should someone undergo surgery to
prevent
conception? Then who?

That one seems obvious: the one who is opposed to more kids is
responsible for contraception -- period. That includes if no surgery is
planned to make it permanent: if the man doesn't want more kids, he'd
better be using a condom and spermacide, every time. If it is the woman
who doesn't want kids, *she* takes responsiblity.

The morning DH was going in for snipping, I said, "You know, I'm not
sure I'm ready for this. When the twins are 5 or 6, we might want more
kids." He said, "YOU might. I'm done." That's why HE was the one
going under the knife.

Had I felt strongly that I wanted more kids, we'd have talked more; I
only felt, at that point, a vague regret that this was the last time I'd
give birth, hold my own newborns, etc.

If a third is conceived accidentally, who makes the
changes? Can the marriage survive that - whatever the outcome of that
scenario
is?



I'm not saying there are any answers, but it isn't sufficient at all to leave
it
with the marriage needing to stay intact.

And counselling doesn't fix everything.

I realize that, and I know that some marriages are unsalvageable -- with
or without this issue.

A strong marriage will survive this. An unhealthy one may not.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Sue" wrote in message
...
"Circe" wrote in message
Haven't people ever heard of
DOING LAUNDRY?

On vacation, no way. That's why I'm on vacation, to get get a break from
all
that stuff. I'd rather have more stuff to carry.

I'd rather either do laundry myself or find a service to do it. Frankly, we
don't have a choice to bring a lot more stuff, because we travel with a
large enough group that our luggage won't *fit* in a vehicle once we arrive
if we don't keep it to a minimum. Doubling our luggage so we wouldn't have
to wash would mean renting an extra car to schlep it.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3)

I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan)

"Circe" wrote in message
news:3%a7e.7306$%c1.6066@fed1read05...

Well, I'll admit that the fact that we do want to do more travel is one
consideration that has put a damper on having a fourth child. It's pretty
difficult to find accommodations in Europe for a family of five

So what type of accomodations do you end up with, and
how do you find them? Trolling for info for the future, I am.


P.
Tierney

"Circe" wrote in message
I'd rather either do laundry myself or find a service to do it. Frankly,
we
don't have a choice to bring a lot more stuff, because we travel with a
large enough group that our luggage won't *fit* in a vehicle once we
arrive
if we don't keep it to a minimum. Doubling our luggage so we wouldn't have
to wash would mean renting an extra car to schlep it.

We camp, so it hasn't been a problem to bring more stuff. Anyway, the kids
get dirty extremely easy when camping. If I didn't bring more clothes, I
would spend all my time doing laundry. I already do enough laundry to last a
life time. I don't need to do it on vacation.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)