Baby feeding issues at daycare

E is now 6.5 mo old, and has been going to daycare (center based) for
the last three weeks. I send her EBM with her, but she has consistently
refused her bottles. Her care provider suggested that since she likes
solids, I should include more solids during her day, and so we are
currently doing solids 3 times a day. (rice cereal, oatmeal cereal and
home made yellow lentil and rice cereal, or apple /pear sauce).
She has never been a fan of the bottle, but would do OK if it was
offered once or twice a day. At daycare though, she has consistently
refused her bottle. The moment she realizes the EBM is from a bottle,
she spits it out. This went on for 2 weeks, and finally out of
desperation I introduced a sippy cup. This was going fine until
yesterday, (3 days after sippy cup was introduced), and she has begun
to spit out milk from the sippy cup too. Its not that she is not
hungry. If you offer her milk from a spoon, she will drink it happily.
If you give her solids, she will eat those happily. But BM from
anything other than its natural source is unacceptable. She nurses
normally (about 6-8 times) after I go back home. (And the center has a
policy against giving infants milk via spoons).
I'm worried because she has lost weight. She was 11 lb 14 oz (3 weeks
ago at her 6 mo check up) and has dropped to just over 11 lbs now.

Would some one please help with the following:

1. Has anyone introduced an actual (normal) cup to a child this young ?
(She can hold her head up well and sits well in a high chair). If you
have tried, what were the difficulties you came across ?

2. I'm not comfortable that she gets her nutrition mainly from solids
(to which BM has been added of course), but solids nonetheless. It
feels like she's jumped from exclusively breastfed to exclusively solid
fed ! Any suggestions to make her drink more fluids / EBM? (Her average
daily intake of EBM with solids is about 8-10 oz)

3. I talked to her Ped, and he assured me she would not starve herself.
(He even suggested that she is "strong willed" which I think, was a
polite way of saying she's just obstinate). My output (while pumping)
has been dwindling and so I'm going to have to supplement soon. She has
a problem digesting cow's milk protien and I was advised to start some
sort of formula where the cow's milk protien would be broken down (e.g.
alimentun etc). My mind boggles thinking what she's going to do if I
introduce formula right now. I mean she hates drinking EBM through a
bottle, how in the world is she going to take formula ?


If anyone has any experience with stubborn children that refuse the
bottle consistently, and if so, would you please let me know what you
did ? More importantly will someone that knows these kind of things
please tell me if she's getting way too much solids for her age ? And
any other insight would be helpful.

One reaches the end of one's tether after three weeks of this
situation.

I'm sorry I sound so exasperated.
PK

PK wrote:

I'm worried because she has lost weight. She was 11 lb 14 oz (3 weeks
ago at her 6 mo check up) and has dropped to just over 11 lbs now.

Would some one please help with the following:

1. Has anyone introduced an actual (normal) cup to a child this young ?
(She can hold her head up well and sits well in a high chair). If you
have tried, what were the difficulties you came across ?

Haven't tried this, but if the day care is willing to try, they'd
probably
have some success.

2. I'm not comfortable that she gets her nutrition mainly from solids
(to which BM has been added of course), but solids nonetheless. It
feels like she's jumped from exclusively breastfed to exclusively solid
fed ! Any suggestions to make her drink more fluids / EBM? (Her average
daily intake of EBM with solids is about 8-10 oz)

8-10 oz of EBM sounds like plenty to me. Especially if you
are still nursing her 6-8 times a day in addition to that.
DD1 never took the bottle well and I went back to work
at 3 months. 5-8 ounces from a bottle was alot for her.
I bet she completely gave up the bottle at about 7 months-
we moved to solids at day care and nursing only at home.
Then added finger food solids when she was a little older
(after nursing) mostly as a social thing.

Even DD2 who did the bottle well, gave it up not long after
solids were introduced. She preferred to wait for me.
Both my girls were much bigger than yours at 6 months
so I was never worried about her weight.


3. I talked to her Ped, and he assured me she would not starve herself.
(He even suggested that she is "strong willed" which I think, was a
polite way of saying she's just obstinate). My output (while pumping)
has been dwindling and so I'm going to have to supplement soon. She has
a problem digesting cow's milk protien and I was advised to start some
sort of formula where the cow's milk protien would be broken down (e.g.
alimentun etc). My mind boggles thinking what she's going to do if I
introduce formula right now. I mean she hates drinking EBM through a
bottle, how in the world is she going to take formula ?


If anyone has any experience with stubborn children that refuse the
bottle consistently, and if so, would you please let me know what you
did ? More importantly will someone that knows these kind of things
please tell me if she's getting way too much solids for her age ? And
any other insight would be helpful.

We just went with what she wanted. I don't know, what happens
if you cut back the solids? Does she just get super cranky or would
she eventually give in and take the bottle/sippy cup? If you are
worried
about caloried you could introduce higher calorie solids (avacado is a
good one).

Your best bet, probably, is to continue to add the EBM to solids,
keep offering it for drinking, and then when you are together, nurse
as much as she will (for us, this meant cosleeping and alot of night
nursing, it was clear that night time was when both of my girls got
their milk fill).

Best of luck!

Mary W.

PK wrote:
E is now 6.5 mo old, and has been going to daycare (center based) for
the last three weeks. I send her EBM with her, but she has consistently
refused her bottles. Her care provider suggested that since she likes
solids, I should include more solids during her day, and so we are
currently doing solids 3 times a day. (rice cereal, oatmeal cereal and
home made yellow lentil and rice cereal, or apple /pear sauce).
She has never been a fan of the bottle, but would do OK if it was
offered once or twice a day. At daycare though, she has consistently
refused her bottle. The moment she realizes the EBM is from a bottle,
she spits it out. This went on for 2 weeks, and finally out of
desperation I introduced a sippy cup. This was going fine until
yesterday, (3 days after sippy cup was introduced), and she has begun
to spit out milk from the sippy cup too. Its not that she is not
hungry. If you offer her milk from a spoon, she will drink it happily.
If you give her solids, she will eat those happily. But BM from
anything other than its natural source is unacceptable. She nurses
normally (about 6-8 times) after I go back home. (And the center has a
policy against giving infants milk via spoons).
I'm worried because she has lost weight. She was 11 lb 14 oz (3 weeks
ago at her 6 mo check up) and has dropped to just over 11 lbs now.

Would some one please help with the following:

1. Has anyone introduced an actual (normal) cup to a child this young ?
(She can hold her head up well and sits well in a high chair). If you
have tried, what were the difficulties you came across ?

2. I'm not comfortable that she gets her nutrition mainly from solids
(to which BM has been added of course), but solids nonetheless. It
feels like she's jumped from exclusively breastfed to exclusively solid
fed ! Any suggestions to make her drink more fluids / EBM? (Her average
daily intake of EBM with solids is about 8-10 oz)

3. I talked to her Ped, and he assured me she would not starve herself.
(He even suggested that she is "strong willed" which I think, was a
polite way of saying she's just obstinate). My output (while pumping)
has been dwindling and so I'm going to have to supplement soon. She has
a problem digesting cow's milk protien and I was advised to start some
sort of formula where the cow's milk protien would be broken down (e.g.
alimentun etc). My mind boggles thinking what she's going to do if I
introduce formula right now. I mean she hates drinking EBM through a
bottle, how in the world is she going to take formula ?


If anyone has any experience with stubborn children that refuse the
bottle consistently, and if so, would you please let me know what you
did ? More importantly will someone that knows these kind of things
please tell me if she's getting way too much solids for her age ? And
any other insight would be helpful.

One reaches the end of one's tether after three weeks of this
situation.

I'm sorry I sound so exasperated.
PK

The only suggestion I have (besides spending the night cosleeping and
nursing, which I did for DD1 when she, too, began to refuse bottles of
EBM at daycare) is to see if the EBM they're offering is warm enough.
(The daycare would place the glass bottles in a crock pot to warm them
-- and indeed, DD1 really did care for warm milk -- to me, almost too
warm, but she liked it.)

Agh. My sympathies.

Caledonia

I think the crucial thing about whether she is getting enough milk or not,
is how much she is actually getting outside of day care, how many times is
she breastfeeding the rest of the time? 8-10oz seems plenty at daycare (even
if it is disguided, LOL), that is just what babies do, we just expect them
to consume the same amount of milk as formula fed babies, but they mostly
prefer it from source and schedule themselves accordingly.

You say your output is dwindling whilst pumping, what is actually happening
at the moment? I'd expect that you'd be getting more than 8-10oz, given you
want her to take more, so the rest should be being stored and if supply is
dwindling the first thing to do is try and work out ways round it. One
example would be to pump before the first feed in the morning, it makes the
baby work hard for that feed and it takes longer, but you could even get
8-10oz in that one pump if you were lucky in addition to what you got in the
day, that's just one of many ideas. You might want to post that in a
separate thread, including details of which pump you have and what your
schedule is.

Anne

PK wrote:

1. Has anyone introduced an actual (normal) cup to a child this young ?
(She can hold her head up well and sits well in a high chair). If you
have tried, what were the difficulties you came across ?

I gave Rocky an open cup very early on, probably
around 7 months old. The only problem is that their
hands are not very coordinated yet, at that age, so
they will need lots of help. I think it's a great
idea, though. Rocky now at age 1 drinks from an
open cup with (almost) no problems.

2. I'm not comfortable that she gets her nutrition mainly from solids
(to which BM has been added of course), but solids nonetheless. It
feels like she's jumped from exclusively breastfed to exclusively solid
fed ! Any suggestions to make her drink more fluids / EBM? (Her average
daily intake of EBM with solids is about 8-10 oz)

Is she nursing at all? If she's cutting down her
daytime intake only and still nursing in the
evenings and night, she may be just fine.

3. I talked to her Ped, and he assured me she would not starve herself.
(He even suggested that she is "strong willed" which I think, was a
polite way of saying she's just obstinate). My output (while pumping)
has been dwindling and so I'm going to have to supplement soon.

Are you pumping only at work?

If anyone has any experience with stubborn children that refuse the
bottle consistently, and if so, would you please let me know what you
did ? More importantly will someone that knows these kind of things
please tell me if she's getting way too much solids for her age ? And
any other insight would be helpful.

Pillbug had no problems with the bottle, in fact,
now at age 3, he is still on it. (Don't ask, it's
a bloody battle.) Rocky, on the other hand, never
ever liked the bottle. He also loves solid foods.
They are both growing fine.

-- Anita --

"PK" wrote in message
ups.com...
E is now 6.5 mo old, and has been going to daycare (center based) for
the last three weeks. I send her EBM with her, but she has consistently
refused her bottles. Her care provider suggested that since she likes
solids, I should include more solids during her day, and so we are
currently doing solids 3 times a day. (rice cereal, oatmeal cereal and
home made yellow lentil and rice cereal, or apple /pear sauce).

Are those all at daycare? If not, and you are worried about to many solids,
just don't give her any at home until she starts demanding them.

She nurses
normally (about 6-8 times) after I go back home.

That seems like a good amount of nursing. Is she nursing well/getting a
fair amount of milk at those times?

1. Has anyone introduced an actual (normal) cup to a child this young ?

My kids would drink from a regular cup at 6 months but not a significant
amount. The one that refused bottles would not drink EBM from a regular cup
either.

2. I'm not comfortable that she gets her nutrition mainly from solids
(to which BM has been added of course), but solids nonetheless.

I'd say that 6-8 nursings a day means she is still most of her nutrition
form milk. The weight loss is throwing me for a loop though. Has she been
ill? I had one son that refused bottles and one that loved them. The
bottle refuser actually refused solids too and the other one really loved
solids.

Any suggestions to make her drink more fluids / EBM? (Her average
daily intake of EBM with solids is about 8-10 oz)

That is a lot of milk in her solids. Some ideas I tried: warm the milk up
more, different positions (facing out or with head in hands and feet towards
tummy of care giver).

My mind boggles thinking what she's going to do if I
introduce formula right now. I mean she hates drinking EBM through a
bottle, how in the world is she going to take formula ?

In hindsight I actually regret not trying formula with Hunter. It could be
that they are refusing not the bottle so much but the idea of getting
breastmilk not from the source.

If anyone has any experience with stubborn children that refuse the
bottle consistently, and if so, would you please let me know what you
did ?

Hunter drank about 2-3 ounces of water or EBM a day while at daycare and
then just nursed all night long. He started eating solids at daycare at
10mos. He was miserable but healthy so I didn't worry about it. We did not
have any weight gain concerns.

I remember how frustrating and stressful it was with Hunter when he refused
bottles so you have my sympathies. I hope it gets worked out soon!


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

Mary W. wrote:

8-10 oz of EBM sounds like plenty to me. Especially if you
are still nursing her 6-8 times a day in addition to that.
DD1 never took the bottle well and I went back to work
at 3 months. 5-8 ounces from a bottle was alot for her.
I bet she completely gave up the bottle at about 7 months-
we moved to solids at day care and nursing only at home.
Then added finger food solids when she was a little older
(after nursing) mostly as a social thing.


Even DD2 who did the bottle well, gave it up not long after
solids were introduced. She preferred to wait for me.
Both my girls were much bigger than yours at 6 months
so I was never worried about her weight.



We just went with what she wanted. I don't know, what happens
if you cut back the solids? Does she just get super cranky or would
she eventually give in and take the bottle/sippy cup? If you are
worried
about caloried you could introduce higher calorie solids (avacado is a
good one).

She gets super cranky and then nurses non-stop once I'm home. I'm not
against her nursing non-stop, but I do like to get other things done
once in a while - like dinner :-). The avocado is a great idea. I'll
look up some more high calorie initial baby foods and start introducing
them. Thanks so much.


Your best bet, probably, is to continue to add the EBM to solids,
keep offering it for drinking, and then when you are together, nurse
as much as she will (for us, this meant cosleeping and alot of night
nursing, it was clear that night time was when both of my girls got
their milk fill).

Yes, we co-sleep too. and she nurses about 3 times during the night and
all the nursing sessions (after I'm back home) are fairly long (by her
standards), nearly 15 -20 minutes each.

Thanks for the tip about the high calorie foods :-)
PK

Caledonia wrote:
The only suggestion I have (besides spending the night cosleeping and
nursing, which I did for DD1 when she, too, began to refuse bottles of
EBM at daycare) is to see if the EBM they're offering is warm enough.
(The daycare would place the glass bottles in a crock pot to warm them
-- and indeed, DD1 really did care for warm milk -- to me, almost too
warm, but she liked it.)

They warm it in a crock pot too, but I haven't checked the temperature.
This might be something worth looking into. Thanks for the tip. The
other thing the day care provider asked me to do was wear the bottle
nipple close to my body. We'll try both these things.

Agh. My sympathies.

Thanks !! It just astonishes me that in spite of all this, I find that
I love being a mom !
PK

Anne Rogers wrote:
You say your output is dwindling whilst pumping, what is actually happening
at the moment? I'd expect that you'd be getting more than 8-10oz, given you
want her to take more, so the rest should be being stored and if supply is
dwindling the first thing to do is try and work out ways round it. One
example would be to pump before the first feed in the morning, it makes the
baby work hard for that feed and it takes longer, but you could even get
8-10oz in that one pump if you were lucky in addition to what you got in the
day, that's just one of many ideas. You might want to post that in a
separate thread, including details of which pump you have and what your
schedule is.

I've pumped 3 X a day for the past 5 months. Initially I got about 9 oz
a day for a couple of weeks, then 12 oz for (what seemed like) a long
time, then 15 oz (for a couple of weeks) and now my output has
gradually decreased to about 10 oz a day. What you say is a good idea.
I will move my pumping schedule ahead by a couple of hours, because
frankly, I hate pumping at 4 p.m. and getting 1 oz at the end of 20
minutes.
I'll see how things go and post any difficulties I have.

Thanks
PK

Nikki wrote:

Are those all at daycare? If not, and you are worried about to many solids,
just don't give her any at home until she starts demanding them.


Yes, she only get solids at daycare. Mainly because I did not want her
to do hungry at daycare, and did not want the solids to cut into her
nursing / milk intake at home. I only offer solids at home when I'm
introducing a new solid, and that's invariably on a friday :-) so that
she gets the new stuff on friday saturday and sunday.

She nurses
normally (about 6-8 times) after I go back home.

That seems like a good amount of nursing. Is she nursing well/getting a
fair amount of milk at those times?

I think she is, I don't unlatch her and wait until she pops off
herself. She seems satisfied at the end of the session.

My kids would drink from a regular cup at 6 months but not a significant
amount. The one that refused bottles would not drink EBM from a regular cup
either.

She seemed to struggle with swallowing from the cup. I think I'll
persist and see if she improves.

I'd say that 6-8 nursings a day means she is still most of her nutrition
form milk. The weight loss is throwing me for a loop though. Has she been
ill? I had one son that refused bottles and one that loved them. The
bottle refuser actually refused solids too and the other one really loved
solids.


She did have a cold, but it didn't affect her eating (or lack thereof !
:-) ) But no, seriously, she did have a cold, and was running a low
grade temperature (a day or two) because she got her shots, but she ate
exactly what she eats normally. Nursed a lot more too. But I see what
you mean. It may have affected her weight gain.

That is a lot of milk in her solids. Some ideas I tried: warm the milk up
more, different positions (facing out or with head in hands and feet towards
tummy of care giver).

I will ask them to try that.

In hindsight I actually regret not trying formula with Hunter. It could be
that they are refusing not the bottle so much but the idea of getting
breastmilk not from the source.

I never thought that way ! It might be worth introducing formula after
all then. Worth a shot if she takes it. It never ceases to amaze me how
much "personality" they develop in 6 ish months. :-) I can't believe
this was the little girl who was content to sleep for 8 hours (had to
be woken up to nurse) and was otherwise very mellow.

Hunter drank about 2-3 ounces of water or EBM a day while at daycare and
then just nursed all night long. He started eating solids at daycare at
10mos. He was miserable but healthy so I didn't worry about it. We did not
have any weight gain concerns.

I remember how frustrating and stressful it was with Hunter when he refused
bottles so you have my sympathies. I hope it gets worked out soon!

Thanks ! I hope so too.

PK