OT - appetite stimulant for a 7 yo?

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
what I've seen/heard/read has been the odd news article, documentary,
radio program that kind of thing, not exactly reliable scientific sources,
but not junk either, so after your very opposing statements I was curious,
so naturally I went to google, now, I can't read every study, but it's
fairly easy to pull up studies that show that dietary control is as good
as certain drugs, they are small studies, they may have faults, as I say,
I haven't read them in full.

I'm sorry, those studies have been disproven after about twenty years of
research.

And I always get really offended when someone makes this comment-"oh, just
watch your diet and it'll improve."

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work. ADD/ADHD is a neurochemical disorder
caused by way too much serotonin flooding the brain and it shows up on fMRIs
now it different areas of the brain that go nice bright colors compared to a
person without this disorder. You give an ADD/ADHD person a sedative, and
it's either going to send them orbital or into a way deep depression. You
try and control their sugar intake, red meat intake, red dye number 12
intake, excessive caffeine intake and whatever else is out there, and it's
patently not going to have any sort of effect on the ADD/ADHD.

I'm ADD, my mother, sister, uncle and one grandparent are ADD. I have a
brother in law that's ADD and a stepdaughter that was diagnosed as ADD
instead of attempting to treat clinical depression. I've grown up knowing
about ADD and ADHD, and while a healthy lifestyle is always better on
general principles, modifying diet alone doesn't control ADD/ADHD or even
make it better. Medication, lifestyle adaptations, counseling for
children/teens for the social skills, and possibly biofeedback for low level
ADD like mine is what works.

Jess

And I always get really offended when someone makes this comment-"oh, just
watch your diet and it'll improve."

which isn't what I said, I actually said "take it or leave it" as I knew
what I was saying was a stab in the dark and it seemed relevant to mention,
particularly as the post was in relation to a diet concern, I wouldn't have
mentioned it otherwise.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work. ADD/ADHD is a neurochemical disorder
caused by way too much serotonin flooding the brain and it shows up on
fMRIs now it different areas of the brain that go nice bright colors
compared to a person without this disorder.

I suppose that as this testing is expensive, most diagnosis is going to be
done on the basis of symptoms alone, so that maybe it is something that is
overdiagnosed? (I confess here, I hadn't realised that ADD/ADHD were so
concrete, I am right in thinking that Autistic spectum disorders are not so
well defined and can only be diagnosed on the basis of behaviour?).

You give an ADD/ADHD person a sedative, and it's either going to send them
orbital or into a way deep depression. You try and control their sugar
intake, red meat intake, red dye number 12 intake, excessive caffeine
intake and whatever else is out there, and it's patently not going to have
any sort of effect on the ADD/ADHD.

assuming my above thought is true then perhaps these things do have an
effect on those that weren't true ADD/ADHD, but didn't have the expensive
test to exclude it

what I don't get though is that as depression is also a seretonin thing how
that can be affected by diet

Anne

Jess wrote:
Well, ok. Then try giving him his concerta with something bland like
applesauce and see what happens.

And yes, I get it. My sister went on ritalin when I was 17, and the shiny
switch flipped off in about three days. It was pretty dramatic to watch, but
the theory is that the speed actually works in reverse and acts like a brake
on the brain's seratonin overfiring that causes the ADD symptoms. Is he
still in school?

Well, he's on summer vacation right now... I'm planning to talk to his
Dr. about stopping the meds over vacation, but, the ugly truth is I
don't know if I want to do that, for my sanity. He's a wonderful boy,
and when he's on the meds, he can actually spend time on one thing,
instead of constantly careening around like a pinball. But, there's the
question of, shouldn't he get the chance to learn to deal with it
himself, instead of using medication? [sigh]
--
Cheri Stryker

mom to DS1 - 7 yrs, and DS2 - 4 months

Check out my new breastfeeding T-shirts on CafePress!
http://www.cafepress.com/dancingbones

Anne Rogers wrote:

you can take this or leave it, but what little I've seen heard read about
ADHD seems to land on the side of not medicating, but actually controlling
it by diet, meaning that hot dogs would not be part of it! I know it's
difficult with a child though, particularly if it means eating different
things to other children, it's definitely something more possible with a
teenager who can understand a lot more and see the different way they are
when they control their diet.

Darn it. I'm SOOO not wanting to do the whole elimination diet thing.
And we just had to switch family doctors, too.

I have a vague recollection that peppermint is an appetite stimulant.

Hey, there's a thought. He likes the tea - I'll try it.
--
Cheri Stryker

mom to DS1 - 7 yrs, and DS2 - 3.5 months

Check out my new breastfeeding T-shirts on CafePress!
http://www.cafepress.com/dancingbones

Sue wrote:

Diet does not have anything to do with true ADD/ADHD. If the child reacts
better with diet changes, then it is not ADDX/ADHD. It's too bad that people
don't believe this disease is truly a real one and can give other people the
wrong idea.

I think the problem is that the disease is really just a collection of
symptoms, that MAY be of the attention deficit variety, or it MAY be
caused by other problems, which other problems can be resolved in large
part by dietary changes. Semantics, I think.
--
Cheri Stryker

mom to DS1 - 7 yrs, and DS2 - 3.5 months

Check out my new breastfeeding T-shirts on CafePress!
http://www.cafepress.com/dancingbones

Jess wrote:

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work. ADD/ADHD is a neurochemical disorder
caused by way too much serotonin flooding the brain and it shows up on fMRIs
now it different areas of the brain that go nice bright colors compared to a
person without this disorder. You give an ADD/ADHD person a sedative, and
it's either going to send them orbital or into a way deep depression. You
try and control their sugar intake, red meat intake, red dye number 12
intake, excessive caffeine intake and whatever else is out there, and it's
patently not going to have any sort of effect on the ADD/ADHD.

Now, I knew about the serotonin, but I hadn't heard about the MRI's.
Where can I go for more info about that? Maybe I should push my medical
practice to do this test. (Though the thought of getting a squirmy 7 yo
to lie still for it is daunting.....)
--
Cheri Stryker

mom to DS1 - 7 yrs, and DS2 - 3.5 months

Check out my new breastfeeding T-shirts on CafePress!
http://www.cafepress.com/dancingbones

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
I suppose that as this testing is expensive, most diagnosis is going to be
done on the basis of symptoms alone, so that maybe it is something that is
overdiagnosed? (I confess here, I hadn't realised that ADD/ADHD were so
concrete, I am right in thinking that Autistic spectum disorders are not
so well defined and can only be diagnosed on the basis of behaviour?).

There are several very strict criteria for diagnosis. You must meet so many
symptoms for a certain amount of time (six months or a year, I can't
recall), there must be no other health issues, and these symptoms must be
causing you difficult in work/school, family, and social relationships.

assuming my above thought is true then perhaps these things do have an
effect on those that weren't true ADD/ADHD, but didn't have the expensive
test to exclude it

Some people can get spaced out and distracted by allergies or stress, which
is sort of why you exclude everything else to get to ADD. Believe me, it's
not easy for a competent doctor to diagnose.

what I don't get though is that as depression is also a seretonin thing
how that can be affected by diet

Depression is a lack of serotonin, not an excess.

Jess

"Cheri Stryker" wrote in message
...
Well, he's on summer vacation right now... I'm planning to talk to his
Dr. about stopping the meds over vacation, but, the ugly truth is I don't
know if I want to do that, for my sanity. He's a wonderful boy, and when
he's on the meds, he can actually spend time on one thing, instead of
constantly careening around like a pinball. But, there's the question of,
shouldn't he get the chance to learn to deal with it himself, instead of
using medication? [sigh]

At 7? Not a chance. Sorry.

And yes, everyone else's sanity is a valid reason for keeping him on meds
over the summer. That, and you'll have to deal with starting the meds back
up at the end of the summer-just in time for school. Starting next year, his
teachers might start helping him adapt around it, and you can go from there.

Jess

"Cheri Stryker" wrote in message
...
Now, I knew about the serotonin, but I hadn't heard about the MRI's. Where
can I go for more info about that? Maybe I should push my medical
practice to do this test. (Though the thought of getting a squirmy 7 yo
to lie still for it is daunting.....)

You can google it. I remember reading about it a while back and the pictures
were all nice and bright.

Jess

"Sue" ) writes:
Diet does not have anything to do with true ADD/ADHD. If the child reacts
better with diet changes, then it is not ADDX/ADHD. It's too bad that people
don't believe this disease is truly a real one and can give other people the
wrong idea.

If one goes with that definition of AD/HD it simply plays into the
hands of the drug companies. Oh, if a person's behaviour changes if
you give them a drug, it's AD/HD, but if it changes for any other
reason it's not AD/HD? How could one possibly "diagnose" a condition
with that sort of definition -- you'd have to be able to predict the
future. You'd have to be able to predict that absolutely anything
you could do other than give the child drugs would not change the
behaviour for the better. Nobody can realistically make that kind
of diagnosis. That would require a fortune teller, not a doctor.
That's not a useful definition of AD/HD. It's not a useful
philosophy for someone looking for solutions for their child.

If a child has been "diagnosed" with AD/HD I think it's a very
reasonable assumption that changing the diet in various ways may
or may not have a large, beneficial effect on behaviour. Nobody
can know it won't without trying it on that particular kid.
Either the definition of AD/HD has to include the possibility that
diet may help, or any "diagnosis" or AD/HD has to be considered
tentative until dietary changes have been tried.

A "diagnosis" of AD/HD is actually a "classification" of the
child, not a "diagnosis" in the sense of understanding the
cause of the problem. It simply classifies the child along with
a lot of other children who have similar problems which may
often be helped with similar solutions.

This post in no way claims that AD/HD does not exist.