How could anyone hurt a baby ?

I look at my son, I kiss him, I stroke his thin head of hair, I
zerbert his feet/belly... I love him affectionately and infinitely.
And though I have gotten stressed at times as this is all new for the
DW and I, I could never see hurting him or worse.. dumping him in the
garbage or putting him in a microwave.

It's bad enough the world we live in and having to worry for the rest
of my life hoping my son will get to live a full life because you
never know (drunk driver, maniac with a gun, war, accident, etc.)
*knock on wood*.

And I am sure I can't understand the stress/duress of being a single
mom, having no support, working 2 jobs, etc...

I can sympathise with those who have a tough life.

But to actually cause harm to such an innocent and helpless child that
simply wants to be loved and to eat and sleep and play and all that...
I don't understand it and don't sympathise with those that harm their
children at all.

I look at my son and i feel so lucky that he's comes this far over the
past 9 months and to think he's got a LIFETIME ahead of him really
puts things in perspective and makes you a little paranoid more-so
about the everyday goings on in this crazy world.

I don't know, I just need to say this.

Paul

Snugglemonster wrote:
I look at my son, I kiss him, I stroke his thin head of hair, I
zerbert his feet/belly... I love him affectionately and infinitely.
And though I have gotten stressed at times as this is all new for the
DW and I, I could never see hurting him or worse.. dumping him in the
garbage or putting him in a microwave.
snip

When I had my son, nearly 7 years ago, I felt incredibly overwhelmed. He
screamed a lot. Actually, he pretty much screamed any time he wasn't
latched on. I didn't get much sleep in the first months. I didn't get
time alone. I was always holding a baby, pushing a baby in the stroller,
nursind nursing nursing.
I can understand how someone can be so overwhelmed, so stressed, so
hopeless and so incredibly tired that they think "I just want this baby
to stop screaming". I will never ever call it ok though. I tried to make
an appointment at the local clinic to get him evaluated as a
"Schreibaby" (scream baby) and they sent me a form I needed to fill out
and I was supposed to send the filled out form back and then wait for
them to contact me about an appointment. I couldn't even find the time
to fill out the form.
I started seeing a therapist when Sam was 2 or 3 months old and he was
awesome. I wasn't suffering from depression (family history of that), I
was just an overwhelmed new mother in a horrible, and finally abusive
relationship.

When I think back to the first months with Sam I can't remember much. I
look at the photos and think "Wow, I look so tired". Most days I didn't
even get a shower. Or breakfast. Or lunch. Or time to go to the toilett.
For me it was horrible to hear him scream, I just couldn't leave him
alone when he was screaming, but have you ever tried to go to the
bathroom with a 2 month old in your lap?

Some babies are wonderfully quiet, only fuss when hungry or tired. Other
babies scream. For no apparent reason. Sam would scream when he was dry,
full, burped, everything.
I moved out when Sam was 6 months old. When he was about 8 months old I
was living close to my parents and I remember calling them late one
evening and the only thing I was able to say was "Come and pick him up
or something horrible will happen. He's been screaming all day long." I
had tried everything, I had even called the pediatrician. He didn't want
to eat, he didn't want to nurse, he didn't want to play, sleep, cuddle,
his diapers were dry... My dad was at my place in 10 minutes (usually a
15 minute drive), picked Sam up and told me he'd call me in the morning,
to get some rest and just chill.
My mother still says: "Nicole, some children scream for a few days. Some
for a few weeks or months. You screamed for years." so apparently it's
in the genes ;-)

A very few times I was so close to calling child services and asking
them for help. I thought about giving him up for adoption or placing him
in temporary foster care. But he's my son. I love him. There's nothing
that can come between us. But those first years were tough.
And I'm so hoping that nr2 will be different than her brother. Because
this time around my parents don't live close by, there's only my brother
and I don't think he'll cherish taking care of the baby and Sam while I
bury my head under a heap of pillows ;-)

I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't learned to find help
when I need it, and that it's ok to call a friend/family member in the
middle of the night because you just can't deal with it all anymore and
you just need some sane person at the other end of the phone to tell you
that it's not going to be like this for ever. But I'm glad I had/have
those great friends who I can call at 3 a.m. crying and shrieking and
who'll do their best to calm me down. (Which usually takes about 5
minutes...)

take care
nicole

I think it's probably some sort of disorder, because you're right, why would
anyone normal harm a baby - even when things are really bad, the furthest
most people go is thinking about harming them, and even that's pretty
extreme, I had very severe postnatal depression after my first (though
surprisingly, absolutely nothing after my 2nd) and I do recall thinking
about harming him, but it was only a very small number of times. As a child
grows, they are much more able to make you angry, but that doesn't
necessarily result in feelings of wanting to harm them, more wanting to
control them! Even so, I'm sure I read somewhere that the vast majority of
child abuse cases to not relate to anything the child has done, so whilst
anger isn't an excuse, it rarely seems to be a cause of ongoing abuse
anyway.

Cheers

Anne

My son had colic. Yours is only 3 weeks old now, so not quite due for it
yet, if he gets it at all. Mine, at 6 weeks, turned from a lovely cooing
blue eyed wonder child into a wailing screaming banshee for several hours
every night for 2 months running. It was a nightmare. We ate dinner in
shifts as the only thing that would calm him was stomach massage and looking
at the fish tank. We set up a chair facing the tank and a change mat on the
floor so that one or the other of us could sit with him looking at the fish
or massage his tummy while the other one took a break, ate, whatever. I
remember thinking "I wish you'd just shut up for a little while so I can get
my head straight". The almost constant high pitched wail eventually gets to
you. For me, it was just thoughts. Other people cannot cope and actually
physically try to shut the baby's mouth, smothering them in the process. And
they say "I just wanted him/her to be quiet, I couldn't take the screaming
any more". Sad, but true.

Then when he was 6 months old he got night terrors and reverse cycled. At
the same time. I was a walking zombie. At one stage I didn't sleep for over
72 hours straight. He was awake almost constantly during the day and night.
He'd go down for maybe 45 minutes max at a stretch, then be awake for hours
on end, then another 45 minutes, screaming when the night terrors had him. I
was afraid to go to bed because there was no way for me to sleep. He'd be up
before I relaxed enough to fall asleep. I was constantly on edge, constantly
awake, waiting for that cry to sound... Another nightmare time. And I
couldn't get help because the place where you go to deal with babies with
sleep problems decided that I was depressed and they wouldn't have me until
I was "stable"! How was I supposed to become stable without sleep, with a
constantly awake, sometimes screaming baby?

So while I don't condone hurting a baby I can understand how people might
get to that stage where something inside them might snap, leading to a rash
act.

As for long-term abuse... That's another thing altogether. That stems from
something quite different. As Anne said, those one-off triggers don't start
long-term abuse. There's something wrong with the way the person thinks,
with the way they justify what they do. There are people out there with
totally screwed up thinking patterns but thankfully they are a minority.

Engram

Snugglemonster wrote:

But to actually cause harm to such an innocent and helpless child that
simply wants to be loved and to eat and sleep and play and all that...
I don't understand it and don't sympathise with those that harm their
children at all.

I hear you, Paul. However... Pillbug is the light
of my life. I had a very difficult pregnancy and
we fought really, really hard to get him here. So,
when he was born, DH said that I have never looked
more happy. NICU, blah blah blah, we fought to get
him home. Home he came.

Cut to six weeks later. I'm a zombie from never
sleeping more than 1.5 hours at a time. It's 3am,
DH has been asleep for several hours, it's my fifth
time up nursing and changing Pillbug. I've just
changed him, he poops, I have to change him again.
He projectile poops ALL OVER THE WALL AND ON THE
COMPUTER.

In my mind, I was thinking, I could throw him
against this wall and no one can do anything
about it. Of course, I would never do so. But,
it shocked me, and still shocks me to this day,
that that kind of thought could go through my
head. Before any of my friends had kids, my
first friend who had a baby said that she understood
Andrea Yates. We were all horrified by her
statement. Until I had my own, then I also
understood.

It is a horror. One would think that, at every
step of the way, there are enough checks and
balances that should stop a person. Thinking
about putting the child in the microwave is one
step, actually putting the child in, actually
turning it on... There ought to have been some
checks on his actions somewhere in his neurons...

-- Anita --

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
. ..
I think it's probably some sort of disorder, because you're right, why
would anyone normal harm a baby - even when things are really bad, the
furthest most people go is thinking about harming them, and even that's
pretty extreme,

I don't think it is extreme to think of harming your child, especially when
they are crying nonstop and there is nothing the parent can do. I know
exactly how shaken-baby syndrome can happen. I could never actually hurt one
of my kids, but I have definitely been at the point that someone better come
and take the baby/child away because I am at the end of my rope.
--
Sue

"Snugglemonster" wrote in message
ups.com...
I look at my son, I kiss him, I stroke his thin head of hair, I
zerbert his feet/belly... I love him affectionately and infinitely.
And though I have gotten stressed at times as this is all new for the
DW and I, I could never see hurting him or worse.. dumping him in the
garbage or putting him in a microwave.

Your still in baby moon (the honeymoon phase). If your baby gets colic like
my first baby had, you might not feel so loving ;o). My first daughter
started with colic and would cry from 6pm-11pm every night. Most of the time
I was alone because my husband worked strange hours at that time. I also
remember when my first daughter got a really bad diaper rash that made her
bottom raw. It was horrible, again she cried nonstop because it hurt so bad.
I was sleep deprived, stressed, and hearing her cry for that many hours
wears on a person. I definitely can see how shaken-baby syndrome happens.
But, it takes an abnormal chemistry in the brain to be able to actually
follow through on that and unfortunately, some people either snap and/or
have an imbalance.

But to actually cause harm to such an innocent and helpless child that
simply wants to be loved and to eat and sleep and play and all that...
I don't understand it and don't sympathise with those that harm their
children at all.

I do symphathize because it is something they will have to live with for the
rest of their life, especially if it was a spur-of-the moment bad judgement.
I don't have any sympathy for the mothers that have the baby and then put
them in the trash because there are so many avenues available to find the
child a home rather than have it suffer.

--
Sue

"Sue" wrote in message
news:M6KdneP2o5zMP_vbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
. ..
I think it's probably some sort of disorder, because you're right, why
would anyone normal harm a baby - even when things are really bad, the
furthest most people go is thinking about harming them, and even that's
pretty extreme,

I don't think it is extreme to think of harming your child, especially
when they are crying nonstop and there is nothing the parent can do. I
know exactly how shaken-baby syndrome can happen. I could never actually
hurt one of my kids, but I have definitely been at the point that someone
better come and take the baby/child away because I am at the end of my
rope.
--
Sue

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but personally I just wanted to thank those
that replied. I'm so exhausted lately, but if I lie down, or close my eyes,
Jessica (normally so so loving) screams really loudly and smacks me in the
face. I've been working overtime, and slowly reaching the end of my tether &
abilities. I would *never* harm her, but My God, there are times I've had to
leave the room instead. Last night, I had a total breakdown when she started
screaming at me (not crying, might I add, just high pitched screams) when I
tried to doze in the car on the way home - I'd worked the night shift the
night before & took her out all day so that i didnt sleep when i had her
here alone. For a moment, I'm sure I actually hated her as she giggled when
I burst into tears. I begged Rob to bring her up alone as I felt like the
world's worst mother. Thank you to the others for writing their feelings at
a time I urgently needed to hear them.

I remember the baby-moon days, when I'd have thought anyone else saying
this was just pure evil, and I still think that maybe I am. I understand
that actual child abuse is different, where the abuser does it for their own
enjoyment, but it's only now that I understand how people lose their sanity
and harm their child.Believe me though, it breaks my heart to write that.

I hope it doesn't happen to you - it's horrible :-(

Lucy

Lucy-lu wrote:

there are times I've had to
leave the room instead.

One of the best pieces of advice a friend gave
me was, go to the garage where you cannot hear
him cry. Just 5 minutes. You can let him cry
for 5 minutes. It was a sanity-saver.

-- Anita --

"Snugglemonster" wrote in message
ups.com...
I look at my son, I kiss him, I stroke his thin head of hair, I
zerbert his feet/belly... I love him affectionately and infinitely.
And though I have gotten stressed at times as this is all new for the
DW and I, I could never see hurting him or worse.. dumping him in the
garbage or putting him in a microwave.

It's bad enough the world we live in and having to worry for the rest
of my life hoping my son will get to live a full life because you
never know (drunk driver, maniac with a gun, war, accident, etc.)
*knock on wood*.

And I am sure I can't understand the stress/duress of being a single
mom, having no support, working 2 jobs, etc...

I can sympathise with those who have a tough life.

But to actually cause harm to such an innocent and helpless child that
simply wants to be loved and to eat and sleep and play and all that...
I don't understand it and don't sympathise with those that harm their
children at all.

I look at my son and i feel so lucky that he's comes this far over the
past 9 months and to think he's got a LIFETIME ahead of him really
puts things in perspective and makes you a little paranoid more-so
about the everyday goings on in this crazy world.

I don't know, I just need to say this.

Paul

It's surprisingly common to be overwhelmed.
It's also not unheardof to "lose it".
I do think it's an extreme case (as with dumpsters or microwaves) and I do
think that goes a little beyond just being overwhelmed or losing control.

The way I see it is this. Sometimes a person just loses it. Loses their
temper, mind, whatever. Often, it seems, these people are the general
"good" people - caring, loving, would never intentionally hurt anyone or any
thing. Lack of sleep, lack of knowledge, stress, pressure, and a number of
other factors CAN and DO build up.

One case I can recall was about 5 years ago. I never realized how close
this hit home until a few years after.
My mom had a case in her office of a shaken baby (my mom works for Child
Welfare in Child Protection). Dad was your typical "good" dad. He had one
infant and also a toddler. At the time, the baby was about 3 months old or
so. His babies were his life. He was married, but his wife actually died
from complications of a C-section. Baby was born later in December, she
died a couple days after Christmas - 2 normally fairly stressful times under
normal, good circumstances. Mom dies from a towel being left inside after
her C-section with Baby #2.
He's now on his own and not by humanly choice, and on his own with a newborn
and a toddler.
He has the stresses of being a single parent. The stresses of a new baby.
Stresses of a toddler, putting food on the table, right after Christmas and
his wife has just died (at Christmas time as well) He has limited
resources, mainly his MIL.
One day, he loses it. He shakes the baby. After I looked into this case on
my own, I agree with my mom that I don't believe this man would have ever
done this if he didn't have the extra stress of wife dying, and under those
circumstances. I also do not justify his actions or think, "Well, it's
alright just this one time because he had reason!" because I still do not
believe there is any reason or justification.
Both baby and toddler get taken away and put into a foster home.
Dad goes through different things - counselling, anger management, parenting
classes, other random classes, courses and aids. This dad did feel horrible
and resented himself for what he did. He took responsibility, saw what he
did was lose control to the extreme and went out to seek help.
Baby does survive but to this day has lasting effects of this one time. She
has some brain damage and does not function. He has to live with that every
day of his life. Both girls were brought back home to him, and to this day,
he remains to be the otherwise "good" dad. He would never do anything to
hurt either of those kids, now about 5 and 7. He did what he had to do to
get himself some help and get the education and support he needed. Both
girls continue to do just fine, even the youngest that has brain damage
because of this.
He just lost it. Just lost control. It's not an excuse or anything, it
happens. It can happen to good people, it can happen to bad people. Often,
IME, this type of situation seems to happen more often to the good people.
I can understand, although if it happened to me where it was one of my
children, I do not think I could ever forgive or forget - that goes for if
it was my mom or dad, brother, aunt or uncle, heck, even DH. I, honestly,
do not believe I could forgive that person, and if I was able to, it would
be extremely hard.
The dad above turned out to be DH's cousin's wife. The man's MIL is my
MIL's one and only close sister.

When DS was born, I was 16. I was young, had no idea what I was doing or
what I was supposed to do. He screamed and screamed and screamed. I even
took him to the ped's office to ask what was wrong with this situation - was
it me or the baby? I swore up and down that he hated me. I was even
calling my mom at 2am to ask her why he hated me and all that. There were
times when I had to stop myself and get my control back. Due to my mom's
work and what I eventually went to school for, I was able to find that level
of control. It was as simple as putting the baby in the crib, closing the
door (hm... come to think of it, sometimes I even slammed the door) and
walking away and out of earshot of the screaming baby. He was in his crib,
he was safe, he was fine to cry for 10 minutes while I went off and regained
control of myself before I went past that point of getting control back.
There were times when I just wanted to shake that baby or throw him or
ANYTHING and tell him to shut up. I never did as I found ways right from
the start to control myself. I was able to walk out of the room, and
because I lived with a support worker and her family at the time, I had that
advantage of asking her to step in when I couldn't anymore, and she always
did when I asked and would also often ask me if I wanted or needed help. I
also had the advantage of being able to call my mom at 2 or 3 in the morning
if I did need to regain my composure. Even if I woke my mom up at 3 in the
morning and she had work the next day, it was alright. Not all parents have
this advantage of having someone to call or step in. A baby's cry is
annoying and frustrating for a reason - so you don't ignore it when they're
trying to communicate! It's so you get up and do something FAST - feed,
change, play, sing, hold, whatever.
I often feel that I was lucky enough, as early as when DS was born, to find
and have ways to help cope. If I didn't, I honestly don't know what I would
have done, and I often don't want to think about it. DS was a very colicky
baby. Fine during the day, but come evening, that was a different story. I
can see it happening, where someone just loses it, but I also cannot accept
it as a reasonable or proper way to handle a situation.
It happens - I'm definitely not saying it should happen or when it does
happen it's alright, but it does happen and you'd be surprised.