Dentist uses Nitrous Oxide?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
carabelli writes:

Ka-ching

?

Deciduous teeth that are lost prematurely *may* allow for mesial shifting of
teeth posterior to the empty site. This *can* impact secondary teeth that
would have erupted normally if their space had been preserved. This doen't
always occur, but it sure can and more often than not.

The Ka-ching was my cash register, I practice orthodontics exclusively.

carabelli

In misc.kids carabelli wrote:
Deciduous teeth that are lost prematurely *may* allow for mesial shifting of
teeth posterior to the empty site. This *can* impact secondary teeth that
would have erupted normally if their space had been preserved. This doen't
always occur, but it sure can and more often than not.

I know this. Both of his older siblings are enriching the coffers of an
orthodontist. One sibling, for example, does not have an adult bicuspid
coming in behind a baby tooth. Just isn't there. I'm feel like I work
fine with our orthodontist.

The main reason I want to treat his cavities is that he has tooth
pain. One in particular seems to be causing him problems and it appears
to be tender there when I floss. I'm concerned about it getting infected.

Wendy

"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...
In misc.kids carabelli wrote:
Deciduous teeth that are lost prematurely *may* allow for mesial
shifting of
teeth posterior to the empty site. This *can* impact secondary teeth
that
would have erupted normally if their space had been preserved. This
doen't
always occur, but it sure can and more often than not.

I know this. Both of his older siblings are enriching the coffers of an
orthodontist. One sibling, for example, does not have an adult bicuspid
coming in behind a baby tooth. Just isn't there. I'm feel like I work
fine with our orthodontist.

The main reason I want to treat his cavities is that he has tooth
pain. One in particular seems to be causing him problems and it appears
to be tender there when I floss. I'm concerned about it getting infected.

Wendy

I would probably rephrase it to "I am taking advantage of the services my
orthodontist provides and am pleased with the investment". :-)

At least I hope you feel that way 5 - 10 years after their treatment is
completed.

Also, in addition to the comments Dr. Steve posted in this thread, at your
child's next visit, walk in with your child, say hello to everyone and take
a 180 back to the waiting room to read the book you brought. Children feed
off the parent's anxiety. Last week a parent of an 8 yr old decided to come
over and hold the child's hand exactly when I was cementing an appliance
that had been tried in, uneventfully, twice in the previous 3 minutes. That
ensured tears for no reason.

I'm a parent also and understand the empathy we feel. I will never allow a
parent in the back when working on someone under the age of 10 again. They
can come back to discuss, observe other patients (same procedure) etc., but
when it's time to do my job, NO.

I have done this in the past and you would be amazed at the behavior of
children once the parent - life preserver is gone.

Just my two cents worth.

carabelli

"carabelli" wrote in message
...

"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...
In misc.kids carabelli wrote:
Deciduous teeth that are lost prematurely *may* allow for mesial
shifting of
teeth posterior to the empty site. This *can* impact secondary teeth
that
would have erupted normally if their space had been preserved. This
doen't
always occur, but it sure can and more often than not.

I know this. Both of his older siblings are enriching the coffers of an
orthodontist. One sibling, for example, does not have an adult bicuspid
coming in behind a baby tooth. Just isn't there. I'm feel like I work
fine with our orthodontist.

The main reason I want to treat his cavities is that he has tooth
pain. One in particular seems to be causing him problems and it appears
to be tender there when I floss. I'm concerned about it getting
infected.

Wendy

I would probably rephrase it to "I am taking advantage of the services my
orthodontist provides and am pleased with the investment". :-)

At least I hope you feel that way 5 - 10 years after their treatment is
completed.

Also, in addition to the comments Dr. Steve posted in this thread, at your
child's next visit, walk in with your child, say hello to everyone and
take
a 180 back to the waiting room to read the book you brought. Children
feed
off the parent's anxiety. Last week a parent of an 8 yr old decided to
come
over and hold the child's hand exactly when I was cementing an appliance
that had been tried in, uneventfully, twice in the previous 3 minutes.
That
ensured tears for no reason.

I'm a parent also and understand the empathy we feel. I will never allow
a
parent in the back when working on someone under the age of 10 again.
They
can come back to discuss, observe other patients (same procedure) etc.,
but
when it's time to do my job, NO.

I have done this in the past and you would be amazed at the behavior of
children once the parent - life preserver is gone.


Agreed. The parent becomes the child's "ally" against the "big, bad
dentist". "Mommy, please don't let him hurt me."

carabelli wrote:
Deciduous teeth that are lost prematurely *may* allow for mesial
shifting of teeth posterior to the empty site. This *can* impact
secondary teeth that would have erupted normally if their space had
been preserved.

:nod: That's why I had my son's teeth done. I wasn't willing to let him
spend the next 5-7 years missing teeth, particularly when two of the teeth
that were seriously decaying were second incisors.

--
iphigenia
www.tristyn.net
"i have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
i do not think that they will sing to me."

Excellent post Dr Steve - I totally agree - should be mandatory reading for
all parents of little ones. Also - parents, brush those teeth for many
years - my boys were brushed every night by me till almost the age of 10.
Kids usually just don't have the ability to do it well.
Linda.
(hygienist)

"Dr Steve" wrote in message
. com...
Sounds like the child has learned how to avoid the situation altogether.
Most kids are smart enough to do that if given the chance. It is hard to
reason past that behavior for very young children. A guess from a long
distance away is to go to the hospital and get the GA. The child should
NOT
remember any of it.

A general suggestion to all parents is to never try to prepare a child for
a
dental visit. We have the best of intentions, but invariably end up
scaring
the child more by placing new ideas in their heads. Answer all questions
as
briefly, but honestly as possible. Just do not offer ANY information.
All
too often, parents will place too much importance on a single event (like
visiting the dentist), because it is important to *us*, but we should do
the
opposite. I tell parents to treat the visit with the same level of
importance (when in front of the kid), as a trip to the supermarket. If
we
tried to explain everything the child would see or experience at the
supermarket prior to their first trip there (at age 3-4), the kid would be
scared to death. Think about a reaction to things the child has not seen
yet by age 3-4, such as automatic doors, HUGE (to the child) metal carts
that they are forced to ride in, but wobble all over the place, all the
strangers everywhere, mountains of boxes, a machine which slices meat,
bright lights, bells going off, and the cash register with its mysterious
moving belt and chirping register.

Most children do not fear the grocery store because, (1) they have been
there since they were weeks old, and (2) no one has given them any reason
to
suspect it might be scary. The dental visit should be the same (for the
kid).

Saying things such as "Don't worry it won't hurt", or "don't be scared",
or
"don't be frightened of the noises", only plants the thought of fear in
their heads.

I know this advice may be too late for this child. It may not have
mattered
in the first place. The important thing is to get the dental problems
sorted out quickly, maintain the child's dental health so that it is not
an
issue again, and avoid making the child into a "dentophobic".

The parent will suffer much more from the visit to the hospital for GA
than
the child will. Only the parent will remember it a year later. The
hospital will have an entire team ready to administer the anesthetic and
get
the treatment done. Don't let the kid live with pain or fear.

It is possible a different dentist may have better luck, but don't count
on
it given the history. If you try another dentist, make sure that dentist
has the chance to gain the child's trust prior to trying to fix any teeth.
That often means you get to pay to have the child's teeth cleaned again.
Often it means you get to pay for a whole series of minor little
appointments designed solely to gain the child's trust.

--
~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

{remove first 3 dots for email}
.................................................. ..

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes
only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................
Please ignore j..d...
~~~~``````````#####----

"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...
Well, here's my follow-up. My husband brought him back to the dentist
today. I sent my husband because it occurred to me that the [male]
dentist might be one of those people who can't treat women like adults.
I
also figured that my husband would have a different demeanor than me and
might be more effective in getting our kid to cooperate.

He didn't even last as long as last time. Their appointment was for
8:30 am and I got a call at 8:38 saying the dentist won't do it.

My husband later said that he thought the dentist was a bit wussy in not
insisting on getting in the mouth when our son got fussy. Apparently he
has no skills in this area because he uses nitrous oxide to knock them
flat during all visits. He did nothing to help our son be less fearful.

DS started to get fearful when the chair was tipped back and then got
more
fearful when they put the little pig-snout mask on him and then totally
freaked out after smelling the odd smell. (I had previously asked the
dentist if he could do unscented, apparently he couldn't.)

I conclude now that the freaking out was to the sensation of the mask
experience (and maybe flashbacks to his traumatic hospitalization a year
ago) and not a reaction to the drug itself.

The dentist's two recommendations were to "wait until he's older" (our
son
is 51 months) or to schedule hospital dentistry to do all of them at
once
under general. Our next course is the obvious thing that the dentist
DIDN'T mention, to try a different dentist. We know we might have to
come
back to this one for the hospital dentistry. (He's the only one who
does
it that is available to us.)

What's not clear to me is what happens if we don't get these cavities
filled for months or years. One of the five cavities was abscessed in
May
and a second one was fairly deep and we discussed whether to restore it
or
pull it when we were pulling the abscessed one (which was pulled
promptly.) Nothing has been done with it in three months at this point
and my kid cries everytime we floss there. All of the cavities are
between back teeth, though his teeth are fairly widely spaced. (His
front
teeth are all fine.)

We have an introductory meeting set up for Friday with a new dentist.
We've talked this guy up to our kid, explaining that he is our response
to
the kid's fear of the other situation.

I'm planning on talking to this dentist about prescribing a sedative to
use before restoration work and NOT using nitrous oxide.

Wendy


In misc.kids Karen DeMent
wrote: Wendy Marsden wrote:

My four year old finally, FINALLY got his dentist visit today, four
months
after an x-ray showed a startling five cavities. Our dentist
promptly
referred us to a pediatric dentist, saying she wasn't set up to do
that
much work on a small kid. The pediatric dentist fit us in for an
initial
exam and a teeth cleaning, but couldn't get us an appointment to
treat
him
until today.

Things started out fine, everyone was cheerful and no one was scared
or
anxious. He got in the chair and was laughing and fine. But five
minutes
into the nitrous oxide he suddenly started whimpering and curling up
and
got clingy and weepy and scared. I wasn't able to figure out what
was
causing the anxiety - I really think it was a reaction to the nitrous
oxide. The dentist just thought I had a wimpy boy that I babied -
which
wouldn't be a crime if I did, but that doesn't happen to be the case.

The damn dentist threw us out. So much for pediatric dentists
knowing
how to work with kids! He offered no solution beyond we'll try again
on
Monday. Meanwhile, this dentist is a 45 minute drive from my home,
he
isn't a preferred provider in my insurance plan and he thinks I've
caused
my son's mouth problems through neglect (which just isn't true.)

The pediatric dentist was talking about scheduling an OR for sometime
in
the winter (months and months from now) to do all four fillings at
once. I'm disinclined to put my kid through general anasthesia
again. (Long story, but probably related to why he has such weirdly
horrible teeth: he had a traumatic illness and hospitalization 15
months
ago.)

I'm thinking of finding a dentist that does NOT use nitrous oxide but
who
will prescribe a valium before the visit. What do you think?

-- Wendy

Sorry but I think your child may be spoiled and knows how
to get your attention and avoid situations he doesn't
enjoy. While he may have been anxious, you could have
helped more than you did. Nitrous didn't have anything
to do with this incident.

-Karen

"Dr Steve" wrote
Most children do not fear the grocery store because, (1) they have been
there since they were weeks old, and (2) no one has given them any reason
to
suspect it might be scary.

And (3), no one tortures them in the grocery

Saying things such as "Don't worry it won't hurt", or "don't be scared",
or
"don't be frightened of the noises", only plants the thought of fear in
their heads.

Better to give the child realistic expectations of what is going to
happen. If it is going to hurt, then tell the kid it is going to hurt.

Roger Schlafly writes:

Better to give the child realistic expectations of what is going to
happen. If it is going to hurt, then tell the kid it is going to hurt.

I'm not so sure. Kids have vivid imaginations and the slightest
suggestion can quickly engender some very frightening and totally
imaginary thoughts. "It's going to hurt a little bit" may evolve into
"it will be hellish, unending torture" by the time the kid actually sits
in the dentist's chair.

As a general rule, any expectation placed into the mind of young
children will tend to become exaggerated, with the degree of
exaggeration being roughly a function of the amount of detail initially
provided multiplied by the time the child waits until the described
event actually comes to pass. If the expectation is positive, things
will go smoothly; if it is negative, things may go very badly.

Adults are like this, too, with situations that they've never dealt with
before. However, since they have considerably more experience, this
helps to temper their exaggerations in _most_ contexts (but not all). I
think a lot of adult fear of dentists still results from this process,
even if it isn't as severe as it can become for children. Phobias in
general may be manifestations of this process as well.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

carabelli writes:

Deciduous teeth that are lost prematurely *may* allow for mesial shifting of
teeth posterior to the empty site. This *can* impact secondary teeth that
would have erupted normally if their space had been preserved. This doen't
always occur, but it sure can and more often than not.

Ah, thanks. I was wondering what you were trying to say.

The Ka-ching was my cash register, I practice orthodontics exclusively.

I see. I've considered braces from time to time, but I've been told by
dentists that my "jaw is too small" (is that possible?) and that my
teeth are crowded as a result, and I'm not sure how they could be
straightened entirely if there just isn't enough space to line them up
perfectly.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

I have tried giving prizes to adult patients but it did not work!


On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:07:06 -0400, Mary Elliott wrote:

Catherine Woodgold wrote:

Our pediatric dentist does most of the fillings on
our children's teeth with no anesthetic. He asks
them to tell him if it hurts. Apparently it doesn't
hurt!! I don't know how he does that. Maybe they're
small, surface fillings or something. My children
like going to the dentist, apparently because they
like getting the little prizes the dentist gives
them at the end of the session. The dentist also
talks to them in a respectful and friendly way,
which I'm sure helps a lot.

And your point is?

They also had some
local anesthetic for some more serious work --
similar to the anesthetic I've had at dentists'
offices: where they inject something into your
gums to "freeze" that part of your mouth.
My son also had nitrous oxide at a younger age
with an other dentist; I worry about long-term
effects; I don't think it's possible to prove
something is completely safe.

It's a gas. It has no long lasting consequences.

Someone I know said that when she had a general
anesthetic, she couldn't think clearly for 6 months
afterwards. (That's the kind where you go
unconscious.) I believe there's a significant
risk of death with the kind of anesthetic where
you go unconscious. One in a thousand or something?

Try more like 1 in 50,000.

Besides the doctor or dentist working on you,
there should be an anesthetist constantly monitoring
you until you regain consciousness.

You worry too damned much!

--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA

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