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#41
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
H Schinske wrote:
Sue ) wrote: Well imo, you are essentially telling your daughter that rules don't matter, school doesn't matter and that she can stay home at any whim. What is she going to do in the real adult world when she has a job? Stay home because she feels like it. And what are you telling your child when you say that school is important to stay in even when you are not learning anything? I think that is a message that is being put across to way too many bright kids, and one reason why so many people don't have the guts to leave dead-end jobs or work to make their lives more interesting. Wellll.....yes and no. I agree wholeheartedly that it's important to teach *all* children (and particularly bright children) to be creative and make changes to make their lives better. On the other hand, it is even more important with bright kids to teach them to look for acceptable ways to do that. It's important they don't just decide they're so above and beyond everyone else that the rules don't apply to them and they can do whatever they damn well please (a thought process it's easy for bright kids to fall into). They need to be taught to know and understand the rules and to think of win-win solutions and ways to get what they need that respect the process and other people when they have a legitimate need to work outside an established process. A child who needs enriching activity should get it, but not at the expense of undue burdens on others when there are (or should be) other alternatives. I was lucky to have a lot of accommodations, many quite creative, from elementary teachers when I needed enriching activities, but we always worked out a way to do it that didn't create unnecessary hardships. Now and again one may run into an unreasonable teacher who isn't willing to be flexible at all, and then maybe one has to work harder to find something acceptable, but often teachers are *quite* willing to help if only a reasonable approach can be found. It seems to me that bright kids, in particular, can be held to a high standard of being *creative* and *respectful* in their efforts to get what they need. If they're so bright, surely they can figure that out--and those problem-solving skills will go a long way toward helping them get what they need the rest of their life, rather than just quitting when the going gets boring! I'm not suggesting that bright kids should be abandoned to figure it all out on their own, or that if they can't come up with a workable idea they should just be left bored and underserved, or that they should be expected to deal successfully with unreasonable adults. I'm just saying that insisting on respect for rules and processes and other people's time and energy *isn't* the same thing as saying one has to do that mindlessly and accept the status quo. There is usually a middle ground somewhere for those with the patience, diplomacy, and tenacity to find it--and gifted kids need to learn those skills because they'll be using them *all* their lives to get along in the real world. Best wishes, Ericka |
#42
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
dragonlady wrote in message
Several years ago, my daughter became severely ill with hepatitis. Obviously, she was going to miss a lot of school. What I wanted was support for homebound teachers for her classes, and, since we lived across the street from the school, I wanted her to be able to return to classes part time when she was strong enough first for Chemistry and when she could handle two classes a day for Spanish -- the two classes where actually being there mattered most. I spent several weeks getting a run around from the school (the principal wanted me to withdraw her from school all together and put her in independent study until she was strong enough to come back full time). Then i got the expected call from the county health department that does the contact tracing for Hep. B. She asked if there was anything I needed. I described the situation with the school, and she said she'd take care of it. Within less than five hours, I had a call from the school giving us exactly what I'd been asking for! I am not an uneducated person, and I knew that what I was asking for was legal and appropriate -- I just hadn't had the clout to pull the right strings. Frankly, that makes me very angry on behalf of the kids whose parents don't know their legal entitlements and never hook up with someone who can help them. meh Since Allison has a chronic medical condition and was hospitalized for eight weeks in 2001, I didn't have any problems what so ever on getting her needs met. All it took was the doctor faxing over a request to get a modified schedule, then came the testing and then shortly after that came the POHI label. Now as it stands, if she is absent a consecutive 5 days due to illness, she automatically gets home-bound schooling at home or at the hospital if she is admitted. Some districts you have to pull teeth to get anything done and others are more willing. I happened to be one of the lucky ones in that my school's district is very willing to help. Also, I think it helps that the school knows me and our family very well. I volunteer a lot of my time to the school and I am a board member on the PTA. -- Sue (mom to three girls) I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World... |
#43
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Sue wrote:
I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I don't think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they don't participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently. I certainly won't contest your impression of your district, as I have no experience of it. We have a similar program (center based GT program), however, and it is *totally* different. The kids are delightful, very well behaved, and highly supportive of the school and school programs--not to mention that their parents are some of the most highly active in the whole school, and their efforts benefit the *whole* school, not just the center based GT part. I'll agree that the label is unfortunate, though I'm not sure what the program ought to be called. Best wishes, Ericka |
#44
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Ericka Kammerer wrote in message
Wellll.....yes and no. I agree wholeheartedly that it's important to teach *all* children (and particularly bright children) to be creative and make changes to make their lives better. On the other hand, it is even more important with bright kids to teach them to look for acceptable ways to do that. It's important they don't just decide they're so above and beyond everyone else that the rules don't apply to them and they can do whatever they damn well please (a thought process it's easy for bright kids to fall into). They need to be taught to know and understand the rules and to think of win-win solutions and ways to get what they need that respect the process and other people when they have a legitimate need to work outside an established process. A child who needs enriching activity should get it, but not at the expense of undue burdens on others when there are (or should be) other alternatives. I was lucky to have a lot of accommodations, many quite creative, from elementary teachers when I needed enriching activities, but we always worked out a way to do it that didn't create unnecessary hardships. Now and again one may run into an unreasonable teacher who isn't willing to be flexible at all, and then maybe one has to work harder to find something acceptable, but often teachers are *quite* willing to help if only a reasonable approach can be found. It seems to me that bright kids, in particular, can be held to a high standard of being *creative* and *respectful* in their efforts to get what they need. If they're so bright, surely they can figure that out--and those problem-solving skills will go a long way toward helping them get what they need the rest of their life, rather than just quitting when the going gets boring! I'm not suggesting that bright kids should be abandoned to figure it all out on their own, or that if they can't come up with a workable idea they should just be left bored and underserved, or that they should be expected to deal successfully with unreasonable adults. I'm just saying that insisting on respect for rules and processes and other people's time and energy *isn't* the same thing as saying one has to do that mindlessly and accept the status quo. There is usually a middle ground somewhere for those with the patience, diplomacy, and tenacity to find it--and gifted kids need to learn those skills because they'll be using them *all* their lives to get along in the real world. Best wishes, Ericka You are able to articulate in writing better than I can, but I agree with you. I wasn't saying at all that the child should be just left to be bored and yes accommdations should be made, but not at the expense of taking away the teacher's time from the other students. Rules should be followed, not blindly, but they should be followed if one is going to be in that envoirnment. Like I said before, if the OP is not happy with what she is getting, then she needs to make changes. If I wasn't happy with something at the school and let me tell you I have been, I see to that it is changed or a compromise is made. I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I don't think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they don't participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently. -- Sue (mom to three girls) I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World... |
#45
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
In article , Sue says...
You are able to articulate in writing better than I can, but I agree with you. I wasn't saying at all that the child should be just left to be bored and yes accommdations should be made, but not at the expense of taking away the teacher's time from the other students. Rules should be followed, not blindly, but they should be followed if one is going to be in that envoirnment. Like I said before, if the OP is not happy with what she is getting, then she needs to make changes. If I wasn't happy with something at the school and let me tell you I have been, I see to that it is changed or a compromise is made. I just started following thsi thread, but Ericka, and you and others have expressed my opinion on it already. I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I don't think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they don't participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently. This is one of the reasons why I have mixed feelings about tracking. I had the experience of moving from one state to another, but actually having must of my cohort move with me. When I ws in junior high, my father's SAC squadron was transferred from Texas to New Hampshire, and many of the kids I knew transferred into the Portsmouth, NH school district with me. Texas didnt' track, New Hampshire did; we were all tested, and I was put on the math/science accelerated track. The social pressure was definitely on to not socialize with kids on lower tracks. Local kids hadn't socialized with them for some time, but for the Air Force kids it came as something of a shock. Another thing they which was well-intentioned but just added to the accelerated kids' feelings of superiority is that they put us with the special education kids (including some retarded adults) for home ec and shop. (This was back when girls all took home ec and boys all took shop and never the twain did meet, but anyhow..) This was supposed to teach us patience, understanding, and humility, but it just came off as we're not only the smartest, but we're the only ones who are socially sensititve enough to work with the special ed kids. Banty |
#46
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
"Sue" wrote in message news:UpSdncR1O6okbAaiRVn- I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I don't think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they don't participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently. -- I was in the TAG program in elementary school. We weren't just segregated into a different part of the building, we went to a completly different school. At first, we were bussed out for part of the day, and eventually we just went to a seperate school. It had a huge impact on my social life. None of the kids in my neighborhood would talk to me, I missed all the birthday parties, school functions, etc. If I had it to do over again, I'd stay in the regular program. If anything every happens where any of my kids are tested for a TAG program, they won't be segregated like that. It was horrible. Sue (mom to three girls) I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World... -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#47
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Sue wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote in message We have a similar program (center based GT program) What does GT stand for? Same as yours, but backwards--Gifted & Talented ;-) Best wishes, Ericka |
#48
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Rosalie B. wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote: I certainly won't contest your impression of your district, as I have no experience of it. We have a similar program (center based GT program), however, and it is *totally* different. The kids are delightful, very well behaved, and highly supportive of the school and school programs--not to mention that their parents are some of the most highly active in the whole school, and their efforts benefit the *whole* school, not just the center based GT part. I'll agree that the label is unfortunate, though I'm not sure what the program ought to be called. I think your perspective as a parent is somewhat skewed by the participation of the G&T parents. Parents and teachers do make a big difference to the individual programs. Oh, absolutely, though it's not just the parents. The program here is set up in a particular way, and the principal and other administrators at the particular school handle it in a particular way, and all of that works together along with parents, teachers, and students to make it an effective program. That's not to say it's perfect, because it obviously isn't. I'm just saying that the notion of a center based GT program isn't the problem per se. Best wishes, Ericka |
#49
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Ericka Kammerer wrote in message
We have a similar program (center based GT program) What does GT stand for? -- Sue (mom to three girls) I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World... |
#50
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Denise wrote in message
I was in the TAG program in elementary school. We weren't just segregated into a different part of the building, we went to a completly different school. At first, we were bussed out for part of the day, and eventually we just went to a seperate school. It had a huge impact on my social life. None of the kids in my neighborhood would talk to me, I missed all the birthday parties, school functions, etc. If I had it to do over again, I'd stay in the regular program. If anything every happens where any of my kids are tested for a TAG program, they won't be segregated like that. It was horrible. Our TAG started out in a different school, but then due to money problems they re-entered them into our school and consolidated them. Like I said, the way they are handling it in our school, these kids don't want to socialize with the other kids and will go out of their way to not play with the rest of the kids. They don't participate in any of the school functions, nor do the parents take an active part in the school at all. I am sure other places handle it much better than our district and my opinions are based totally on how our district handles it. -- Sue (mom to three girls) I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World... |
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