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#81
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Bullies at a birthday party
In article , Ericka Kammerer
says... Banty wrote: In article . com, Barbara says... To me, bullying is very, very serious. If we start to call every little insult or tease *bullying* then the term loses its power and becomes trivial. Well, yes and no. A lot of true bullying flies under the radar. For example, it took quite some time for the social-exclusion and rumor-mongering behavior of girls that age to be identified as a form of bullying. I can see both sides of that. It's true that there are very serious instances of bullying that are hidden, sneaky, or take forms other than physical threats or violence. On the other hand, there are people who call behaviors bullying that are simply normal situations getting out of hand, or someone losing their temper, or someone being socially clueless or tactless or whatever. That's what I meant by "yes or no". Pre-teen boys are often tactless and have a particularly juvenile sense of humor. They ARE??!? They DO??!? But my 14 year old has shown NONE of that! Not. ;-) They are sometimes rough and tumble-- usually starting out perfectly genially and on occasion accidentally morphing into something more serious. Some kids are just impulsive and don't think before they act. None of those things are *good* behavior, but in my opinion, they aren't bullying. Bullying has to do with deliberately excluding someone, or intending to demean someone, or ganging up to coerce someone to do something, or things like that. It's not uncommon for pre-teen boys to *like* each other and get into tussles over one thing or another, and it's also common for some boys to be very uncomfortable with that sort of physicality or even to be overwhelmed by it. They need to learn to be more sensitive and they need to learn to behave in more appropriate ways, but I don't think that's bullying. True true. But, if a boy is picking up some nefarious intent, it's probably there. It's an extremely socially intuned stage. I don't know whether the boys in the OP's post are bullies or if maybe they're just engaging in some inappropriate behaviors that aren't bullying. I do think that hollering "bully!" when it's not bullying *does* devalue actual bullying that ought to get more attention and be taken more seriously. I also think it's counter-productive, as the steps one needs to take to deal with bullying are often quite different from those one needs to take to deal with kids being clueless or socially inept or impulsive. Well, in the case of the party, it really doesn't matter. So, it matters which it is. And, of course, it matters because people feel differently about the kid and the parents depending on which it is. Call someone a bully, and all of a sudden the child is bad, the parents are bad, and they need to get excluded from polite society. That's a bit overkill if it's just the case that someone needs to catch a clue, or a couple of temperamentally mismatched kids maybe ought to choose not to spend too much time together until maybe they mature a bit. Yes and no ;-) Cheers, Banty |
#82
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Bullies at a birthday party
Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka Kammerer says... Pre-teen boys are often tactless and have a particularly juvenile sense of humor. They ARE??!? They DO??!? But my 14 year old has shown NONE of that! Not. ;-) ;-) I knew *you* knew that, but I do run into a whole lot of parents who don't seem to get that, especially (to engage in a hideously broad generalization) parents who only have younger kids or only have girls. It's always a bit amazing how many get on their high horse about how such behavior shouldn't be tolerated, and definitely wouldn't be tolerated in their house. Well, if you've got a couple of those boys and you figure out how to get through the pre-teen years without the roughhousing or the juvenile humor, do please let me know ;-) They are sometimes rough and tumble-- usually starting out perfectly genially and on occasion accidentally morphing into something more serious. Some kids are just impulsive and don't think before they act. None of those things are *good* behavior, but in my opinion, they aren't bullying. Bullying has to do with deliberately excluding someone, or intending to demean someone, or ganging up to coerce someone to do something, or things like that. It's not uncommon for pre-teen boys to *like* each other and get into tussles over one thing or another, and it's also common for some boys to be very uncomfortable with that sort of physicality or even to be overwhelmed by it. They need to learn to be more sensitive and they need to learn to behave in more appropriate ways, but I don't think that's bullying. True true. But, if a boy is picking up some nefarious intent, it's probably there. It's an extremely socially intuned stage. You think so? I don't know about that. One of my boys seems to have fairly reliable intuition about those sorts of things. The other is completely and totally clueless. He is *forever* attributing motives to people that simply don't exist-- and, not surprisingly, he's not erring on the side of leaping to conclusions to people are being kind to him ;-) He's lightning fast to assume that every offhand comment is somehow a personal attack. I don't know whether the boys in the OP's post are bullies or if maybe they're just engaging in some inappropriate behaviors that aren't bullying. I do think that hollering "bully!" when it's not bullying *does* devalue actual bullying that ought to get more attention and be taken more seriously. I also think it's counter-productive, as the steps one needs to take to deal with bullying are often quite different from those one needs to take to deal with kids being clueless or socially inept or impulsive. Well, in the case of the party, it really doesn't matter. At least from the OP's perspective. I think from the hosts' perspective there's an obligation not to invite a bully (the other kids shouldn't have to deal with that), but deciding to invite all of a group of kids who don't always get along is not only a viable strategy, but probably the best one going in the ever-shifting landscape of pre-teen social interactions. Best wishes, Ericka |
#83
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Bullies at a birthday party
In article , Ericka Kammerer
says... Banty wrote: In article , Ericka Kammerer says... Pre-teen boys are often tactless and have a particularly juvenile sense of humor. They ARE??!? They DO??!? But my 14 year old has shown NONE of that! Not. ;-) ;-) I knew *you* knew that, but I do run into a whole lot of parents who don't seem to get that, especially (to engage in a hideously broad generalization) parents who only have younger kids or only have girls. It's always a bit amazing how many get on their high horse about how such behavior shouldn't be tolerated, and definitely wouldn't be tolerated in their house. Well, if you've got a couple of those boys and you figure out how to get through the pre-teen years without the roughhousing or the juvenile humor, do please let me know ;-) Ya rides it out. They are sometimes rough and tumble-- usually starting out perfectly genially and on occasion accidentally morphing into something more serious. Some kids are just impulsive and don't think before they act. None of those things are *good* behavior, but in my opinion, they aren't bullying. Bullying has to do with deliberately excluding someone, or intending to demean someone, or ganging up to coerce someone to do something, or things like that. It's not uncommon for pre-teen boys to *like* each other and get into tussles over one thing or another, and it's also common for some boys to be very uncomfortable with that sort of physicality or even to be overwhelmed by it. They need to learn to be more sensitive and they need to learn to behave in more appropriate ways, but I don't think that's bullying. True true. But, if a boy is picking up some nefarious intent, it's probably there. It's an extremely socially intuned stage. You think so? I don't know about that. One of my boys seems to have fairly reliable intuition about those sorts of things. The other is completely and totally clueless. He is *forever* attributing motives to people that simply don't exist-- and, not surprisingly, he's not erring on the side of leaping to conclusions to people are being kind to him ;-) He's lightning fast to assume that every offhand comment is somehow a personal attack. And it can go the other way as well. Both the people involved and onlookers (and not both at the same time else it wouldn't be as much a problem!) can be utterly about nefarious stuff going on. But I'm inclined to trust the person's instinct given something like a party. I don't know whether the boys in the OP's post are bullies or if maybe they're just engaging in some inappropriate behaviors that aren't bullying. I do think that hollering "bully!" when it's not bullying *does* devalue actual bullying that ought to get more attention and be taken more seriously. I also think it's counter-productive, as the steps one needs to take to deal with bullying are often quite different from those one needs to take to deal with kids being clueless or socially inept or impulsive. Well, in the case of the party, it really doesn't matter. At least from the OP's perspective. I think from the hosts' perspective there's an obligation not to invite a bully (the other kids shouldn't have to deal with that), but deciding to invite all of a group of kids who don't always get along is not only a viable strategy, but probably the best one going in the ever-shifting landscape of pre-teen social interactions. Well, they may have invited bullies, thinking that THEIR son, being a bully himself, or a go-along-to-get-along type (read the O.P. - this sounds like a likely case), doesn't have a problem, so any OTHER kid that has a problem - well, it's "their problem". There are parents who are perfectly fine with either of these strategies, and don't recognize bullying behavior as a real issue at all. Which sucks (and adds to the whole scenario), but, if they're drawing up a party invite list, what would you expect? Banty |
#84
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Bullies at a birthday party
On Jul 5, 10:38 am, Vickie wrote:
Hey, My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much. It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean. I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way to advise him. The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation. So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself? Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)? Vickie i'm just real confused why it's all between the women folk. how bout your husband goes and talks to his brothers and says something like, "your kids friends are little assholes, are you going to be there modeling the really good male behavior our family is known for or should i come and be at your house during that party? you let kids act like assholes at your house? why do you do that, brother? wassup with the hooligans picking on MY son? why is that happening at your house, brother? Something like that. |
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