Well, any expectant mothers

Anyone seems to park in these here, they seem to be a recent thing here in
NZ, mind you the signs are up pretty high and I don't think everyone sees
them. A lot of people park in the disabled spaces too, which p*sses me off
because I have friends with disabilities and they pay per year for the right
to use those parks. No-one ever seems to get pinged for it though.
I think there is uncertainty about who the expectant/new mother parks are
for, yes I am pg, but only 13 weeks and not really showing. Mind you if they
weren't taken the other day when the carpark was very full we would have
used one, because walking through a smelly underground carpark makes me
violently sick lately, and I'm sure we had more reason to park there that
the people who eventually did.

"Buzzy Bee" wrote in message
...
On 30 Dec 2003 11:48:50 -0800, (Elizabeth Reid)
wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!
(Christine) wrote in message
...
park in the new and expectant mothers parking spots yet?

I do, because we have tons of snow here and i dont want to risk falling
so a short walk to the door is much nicer...;-))

do you all have those?
I know,here in Pa. we just got them a few years ago,,,,there right
beside the handicaped spaces....

We have 'Customer With Child' parking spaces at my local supermarket.
I went to the market with my dad when I was very pregnant,

I have a disabled badge, but one time I was at teh supermarket, very
pregnant, and they had coned off the disabled spaces. There was a
sign saying to use the parent and child spaces instead, so I went over
and parked in what happened to be the last one. As I walked away a
woman shouted from behind me that I couldn't use the space if I didn't
have any kids. As I turned around she spotted the bump and said
"Ooops, didn't realise". I did clue her in about the sign anyway.

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset
(homebirth)

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com

Vicky Bilaniuk wrote in message m...
Nan wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:39:35 GMT, Buzzy Bee
wrote:



Well, I'm not a new and expectant mother, but I didn't when I was.
Mind you, that is because I have a disabled badge so can park there.
I do on occasion park in the parent and child spaces when they are
closer, because IMO the need to be close to the entrance is not as
great. I also usually complain to the management about that one as
well. Its usually a result of people assuming that disabled=in a
wheelchair and forgetting all of us who walk but have difficulty doing
so.

I think they are a good idea though - just that they shouldn't be
the *closest* spaces, just the second closest.

Megan


I've never seen any that were closer than the disabled spots.
If there are, I'd definitely complain to management about it... I
don't blame you.

Nan


I've seen some that were closer than disabled spots, but that was
because the disabled spots were near the ramp, which sometimes leads
quite a bit away from the door. (you would think that they might expect
people with carriages to want to be near the ramp, too, though...)

To clarify - the rule (in the US, at least) is that the accessible
spaces need to be closest to the accessible route, not necessarily to
the door. So, that's why the accessible (what you are calling
disabled) spaces are closest to the ramp.

I've never used the stork parking, personally, since I've had pretty
easy pregnancies (so far - knock wood), and the only place I've seen
them is the BRU, where you figure a good percentage of the customers
are either pg and/or with a child, anyhow! Personally, when I'm with
my toddler, I prefer to be closest to the cart return. Except when I
make the trip to Ikea, I hardly ever have to park very far, anyhow -
the benefits of living in the outskirts.

Irene

In ,
Nan wrote:

*There are no laws governing the "Stork" spaces. They are merely a
*courtesy, supplied by the store. Anyone would be able to park there
*without any fines or whatever.
*Disabled spots, otoh, carry fines for cars with no hang-tag, dash-tag,
*or license plate.
*
*A store *could* mention something to someone parking there, but they'd
*be hard-pressed to enforce anything. Anyone is allowed to consider
*them free to use, and rightly so, imo.

Well, not exactly. The parking lot is private property and the property
owner can enforce any rules he or she chooses as regards where people may
park. If they want to restrict parking in a spot to a woman with kids,
they can, and they can certainly post a sign to the effect that violators
will be towed or fined, and follow through with it. I know with 100%
certainty that this is true at least in PA, USA, because I have been
dealing with a problem at our synagogue/preschool with people parking in
the disabled parking area, and have spoken to the police and several
attorneys about it in the course of my dealing with it. Funny the jobs
they pawn off on the PTO treasurer, isn't it? Sigh.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In ,
Nan wrote:

*On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:39:23 +0000 (UTC), (Hillary
*Israeli) wrote:
*
*In ,
*Nan wrote:
*
**There are no laws governing the "Stork" spaces. They are merely a
**courtesy, supplied by the store. Anyone would be able to park there
**without any fines or whatever.
**Disabled spots, otoh, carry fines for cars with no hang-tag, dash-tag,
**or license plate.
**
**A store *could* mention something to someone parking there, but they'd
**be hard-pressed to enforce anything. Anyone is allowed to consider
**them free to use, and rightly so, imo.
*
*Well, not exactly. The parking lot is private property and the property
*owner can enforce any rules he or she chooses as regards where people may
*park. If they want to restrict parking in a spot to a woman with kids,
*they can, and they can certainly post a sign to the effect that violators
*will be towed or fined, and follow through with it. I know with 100%
*certainty that this is true at least in PA, USA, because I have been
*dealing with a problem at our synagogue/preschool with people parking in
*the disabled parking area, and have spoken to the police and several
*attorneys about it in the course of my dealing with it. Funny the jobs
*they pawn off on the PTO treasurer, isn't it? Sigh.
*
*Disabled parking spots are protected under laws. But courtesy spots
*are not.

The Whitemarsh Township Police Department told me that the parking lot is
private property, and that we can feel free to tow or fine people who park
where we do not want them to park (such as in the Rabbi's reserved spot,
or these two pseudo-spots that are not actually supposed to be parked in
by anyone but which people always park in, etc). The attorneys I've talked
to have confirmed this. I can't cite chapter and verse as far as what
particular regulations or legislation applies, but this is the way it is
around here.


--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In ,
Nan wrote:

*On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:35:27 +0000 (UTC), (Hillary
*Israeli) wrote:
*
*The Whitemarsh Township Police Department told me that the parking lot is
*private property, and that we can feel free to tow or fine people who park
*where we do not want them to park (such as in the Rabbi's reserved spot,
*or these two pseudo-spots that are not actually supposed to be parked in
*by anyone but which people always park in, etc). The attorneys I've talked
*to have confirmed this. I can't cite chapter and verse as far as what
*particular regulations or legislation applies, but this is the way it is
*around here.
*
*I don't think your situation and a public store would be the same.

I was specifically told that our parking lot is subject to the same
regulations as the parking lot at the strip mall about 1.5 miles down the
road from us. The strip mall parking lot has both stork spots and disabled
spots, we have "reserved" spots and disabled spots.

hey, I'm not an expert on this. Maybe the police and attorneys I have
spoken to are wrong. I hope not, because I took their advice as correct
and drew up a policy assuming they were right, but whatever. I've pretty
much said everything I know about the subject so I'll shut up now

-h.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

Hillary Israeli wibbled

I was specifically told that our parking lot is subject to the
same regulations as the parking lot at the strip mall about 1.5
miles down the road from us. The strip mall parking lot has both
stork spots and disabled spots, we have "reserved" spots and
disabled spots.

hey, I'm not an expert on this. Maybe the police and attorneys I
have spoken to are wrong. I hope not, because I took their advice
as correct and drew up a policy assuming they were right, but
whatever. I've pretty much said everything I know about the
subject so I'll shut up now

It would be correct here, as most supermarket or shopping centre car
parks are on private land*, and customers are *permitted* to park there
(there are fines imposed for non-customers, but most people don't read
the signs), they have no absolute right to do so. The supermarkets tend
to enforce disabled parking more than others (there are announcements
in our local Asda, for instance, telling non-badge-holders to move
their cars) but they can also choose to enforce their own baby-club
badge schemes, or whatever.

So if the strip mall owns its own parking lot and chooses to enforce or
not enforce stork spots, it can. You can ask the police to tow a car
that parks on your driveway without your permission. If it's town land
or something else, that's different.

Jac

*Something most teens in our town learned because learner drivers can
drive on private land without L plates...

Nan wibbled

So do your stores issue placards, hang-tags or plates for the
stork spots?? How would a store owner *know for certain* that a
car was parked there that didn't belong??

Tesco, at least, issue 'parking permits' with their Baby Club
membership. I haven't actually seen them enforced but they could be.
And the parking attendant in the car park will tell you off if you park
there without a child, but they aren't always at hand.

Jac

Nan wibbled
Jacqui wrote

Tesco, at least, issue 'parking permits' with their Baby Club
membership. I haven't actually seen them enforced but they could
be. And the parking attendant in the car park will tell you off if
you park there without a child, but they aren't always at hand.

Where are you located? We don't have that many stores that
provide stork spots and I absolutely can't imagine anything
possibly being enforced. It would be more expense and work
involved to the stores, and I imagine easier to do away with the
few courtesy spots that do exist if anyone decided to cause a
kerfuffle over it.

The UK. I discovered this afternoon that for the week or so before
Christmas this particular supermarket *were* rigidly enforcing the
parent/child parking as well as the disabled spaces; anyone who parked
but didn't have a child with them was asked to move, just as non-badge
holders were asked to move from the disabled spaces. The company does
have the authority to fine 'offenders' 40GBP if they refuse, and AFAIK
enforces that when necessary. They have enough staff already in the car
park (moving trolleys etc) that it's not really any extra expense to
them, and they can claim the 'fines' of course to offset that anyway.

John Lewis had fluorescent-jacketed staff in every lane of their car
park last week, finding parking spaces for everyone during the sale. I
guess it's up to each store what level of customer service they want to
provide.

Jac

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:49:16 +0000 (UTC), Jacqui
wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!

It would be correct here, as most supermarket or shopping centre car
parks are on private land*, and customers are *permitted* to park there
(there are fines imposed for non-customers, but most people don't read
the signs), they have no absolute right to do so.

Our local Asda was having trouble enforcing parking restrictions
(particularly the two hour limit, as the car park was abused by people
parking there during football games). They have now started a pay and
display scheme with a 2 hour limit. The parking costs are refunded
when you pay for your groceries. Disabled badge holders are exempt.
The Parent and Child parking has been defined as having a 'young
child' with you and the proof required is a car seat in the car. Its
not perfect (and the store will, for example, waive tickets if a
bucket seat was being used). They employ wardens who record number
plates and a civil penalty notice is issued to people not displaying
tickets, parking in a disabled space without a badge and parking in a
parent and toddler space without having a child with them.

They can pretty much do what they like, however as its their land and
they display large signs explaining all this (ignorance of the law not
being an excuse and all that). The same applies for clamping cars on
private land, which is relatively common here.

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com