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#1
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about "bitching"
'at odds about discipline' was a pretty good thread, and Vickie seems
to be on a better track, but there is this issue about BITCHING that I find interesting. Lots of different opinions. A dad made the point that when a woman appeals to her husband for help with discipline, then she should accept his solution. If she doesn't like his way of handling things, she shouldn't bitch about it. I don't know if I agree with that dad. Here is an example: Lately, our third son Isaac (age 10) has been swearing. This is the son I clash with.... He has ADD, is 3 years older than the youngest, and 3/4 years younger than the 'Irish twin' older two. My husband has more patience with him, and doesn't get his buttons pressed like I do when dealing with him. The other morning before school, one of the older boys was being sort of a jerk to Isaac, and Isaac shouted 'Cut the f-ing S#@t!' I made the oldest boy leave the room, turned to Isaac, and said that the language had to stop, that it was not gonna fly for him to get into the habit of cursing. Then I sent him to brush his teeth. My husband was in the kitchen, and I said, "I don't want to lose it with him, but something has to be done about his mouth... there has to be a consequence." Tim (my husband) said, "Just wash his mouth with soap every time he swears." I said, "I don't think I can do that." Tim,"So what do you want to do?" Me: "I don't know... but that's too harsh and physical and humiliating to me, and it would probably cause more anger isues with him." Timpeeved) "So what do you WANT to do?" Me: I don't KNOW! I want YOU to deal with it! Tim: I already told you how I'd deal with it! It sort of disintegrated from there. He was ****ed that I rejected his idea, and I was mad that he wouldn't brainstorm to come up with more ideas. Each kid has a myriad of little issues that need parental input, guidance and action, and I take care of the majority of those issues. I use a LOT of thought in my solutions, and it just made me mad that he had this one off-the-cuff idea, and when I rejected it - he was DONE. This is not a big deal... it was a garden variety argument and it's being worked out. But I used it as an example of what Rsdf (sorry, probably wrong letters!) was talking about. |
#2
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about "bitching"
In article ,
mom0f4boys says... 'at odds about discipline' was a pretty good thread, and Vickie seems to be on a better track, but there is this issue about BITCHING that I find interesting. Lots of different opinions. A dad made the point that when a woman appeals to her husband for help with discipline, then she should accept his solution. If she doesn't like his way of handling things, she shouldn't bitch about it. I don't know if I agree with that dad. Here is an example: Lately, our third son Isaac (age 10) has been swearing. This is the son I clash with.... He has ADD, is 3 years older than the youngest, and 3/4 years younger than the 'Irish twin' older two. My husband has more patience with him, and doesn't get his buttons pressed like I do when dealing with him. The other morning before school, one of the older boys was being sort of a jerk to Isaac, and Isaac shouted 'Cut the f-ing S#@t!' I made the oldest boy leave the room, turned to Isaac, and said that the language had to stop, that it was not gonna fly for him to get into the habit of cursing. Then I sent him to brush his teeth. My husband was in the kitchen, and I said, "I don't want to lose it with him, but something has to be done about his mouth... there has to be a consequence." Tim (my husband) said, "Just wash his mouth with soap every time he swears." I said, "I don't think I can do that." Tim,"So what do you want to do?" Me: "I don't know... but that's too harsh and physical and humiliating to me, and it would probably cause more anger isues with him." Timpeeved) "So what do you WANT to do?" Me: I don't KNOW! I want YOU to deal with it! Tim: I already told you how I'd deal with it! Then have him implement his idea. Banty |
#3
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about "bitching"
"then have him implement his idea"
Banty, this isn't about the swearing thing - I'm not looking for help with that problem. It was just an example of the topic. But hey, if I could go away for a week and not have to take part in the soap thing, my husband could have at it! Now and then, I can dole out a smack, but it isn't in me to put nasty things in my kids' mouths. I didn't mind filming them when they competed to see who could last longer after biting a clove of garlic, but I would feel really wrong doing something so methodical as the old 'soap in the mouth' punishment. If my husband was the one always home, and he wanted to do the soap thing, it would be ok. Soap won't kill anyone. But it would be too much on ME to do that. |
#4
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about "bitching"
In article ,
mom0f4boys says... "then have him implement his idea" Banty, this isn't about the swearing thing - I'm not looking for help with that problem. It was just an example of the topic. But hey, if I could go away for a week and not have to take part in the soap thing, my husband could have at it! Now and then, I can dole out a smack, but it isn't in me to put nasty things in my kids' mouths. I didn't mind filming them when they competed to see who could last longer after biting a clove of garlic, but I would feel really wrong doing something so methodical as the old 'soap in the mouth' punishment. If my husband was the one always home, and he wanted to do the soap thing, it would be ok. Soap won't kill anyone. But it would be too much on ME to do that. See - that's exactly so often the problem. *His* idea, *you* live with it. Yeah, I think I know what you mean. I work in a (still) male-dominated engineering field, and there's always been few like that. Ask any advice, even "bounce something off" them to get ideas, and they're :shocked: :shocked: and eeved: if you don't implement said advice as the Best Advice Ever You Must Do or Shaddup About It. Well, at work I chock these up on my (mercifully) *short* Do Not Ask list, and confer with someone *else* on problems. (Short list because most guys aren't like that, even amongst us engineer types, and I've met few women like that.) But once in a while I need to work with someone like that, and I've learned a thing or two. If you've married with someone like that - do the best you can do keep responsibilities and consequences closely attached. If it's his idea, he does it and deals with any aftermath. Even if you have to keep a score and tell him about the transgressions the next time he comes home. (Heck, as a kid I had to wait until my Dad got home from temporary duty in Guam or Reykjavik!) So he gets his precious idea (and no, the kids won't break, as you acknowledge), you get it off your hands. It's often best even without that sort of pride-of-advice problem to divide whole responsibilities, rather than tasks. Carve out a piece of the enterprise and give it to them. So people can own them, both in working on it the way they like, *and* dealing with what doesn't work. You both win in a way, and the problem gets dealt with in some way. It also sorts pretty quickly between those irritating halfass-off-the-top-of-the-head ideas and ideas the adviser really believes inn ;-) (Kid crying in car, DH says "lock him in trunk", you say "ok, wait until I find a spot to pull over..." ;-) It's that, or maybe talk through about how people talk about ideas to sort through for the best ones and inspire each other to come up with new ones, and that there are many ways to skin a cat, but it sounds like you may have that other type on your hands. Cheers, Banty (but of course you don't have to follow my advice.. :-) |
#5
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about "bitching"
"or maybe talk through about how people talk about ideas to sort
through for the best ones and inspire each other to come up with new ones" Oh, how nice it is when this actually happens! But it often doesn't, and this is exactly what I think gets labelled as 'bitching'! The times when a mom is just out of ideas or energy, and needs some backup, and a husband has some idea that he thought up in 2 seconds. Successful authors are sometimes peeved at how 'just about everyone' feels that they could write a book, and walk around with the assumption that a successful novel is only a few sessions at a typewriter away. It's sort of the same thing for mothers who do most of the legwork. Hearing 'Just do this!' is really annoying. Ahhh... luckily, life is fun and humor can be found in most situations. |
#6
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about "bitching"
In article ,
mom0f4boys says... "or maybe talk through about how people talk about ideas to sort through for the best ones and inspire each other to come up with new ones" Oh, how nice it is when this actually happens! But it often doesn't, and this is exactly what I think gets labelled as 'bitching'! Yes, I do think this is the kind of thing that gets labelled "bitching". Among many other things ;-) The times when a mom is just out of ideas or energy, and needs some backup, and a husband has some idea that he thought up in 2 seconds. Successful authors are sometimes peeved at how 'just about everyone' feels that they could write a book, and walk around with the assumption that a successful novel is only a few sessions at a typewriter away. It's sort of the same thing for mothers who do most of the legwork. Hearing 'Just do this!' is really annoying. This is where tying the actual *implementation* of the 'just do this' to the efforts of the just-do-this-'er person works. It's the only effective education some of these ever receive. Banty |
#7
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about "bitching"
On Apr 20, 10:54 pm, mom0f4boys wrote:
"or maybe talk through about how people talk about ideas to sort through for the best ones and inspire each other to come up with new ones" Oh, how nice it is when this actually happens! But it often doesn't, and this is exactly what I think gets labelled as 'bitching'! Well, I can’t speak for your husband. But what I’d personally label as ‘bitching’ in the above account is the way that you seemed to be blaming him for not immediately coming up with a solution that suited you, despite the fact that you weren't having any more luck coming up with a suitable solution and had in fact deliberately asked for his advice. “I don’t KNOW! I want YOU to deal with it!” is *not* talking about ideas and inspiring each other. It’s opting out and expecting him to hand you the solution on a plate. And then getting annoyed because he doesn’t. And things disintegrated from there? No ****, Sherlock. Successful authors are sometimes peeved at how 'just about everyone' feels that they could write a book, and walk around with the assumption that a successful novel is only a few sessions at a typewriter away. It's sort of the same thing for mothers who do most of the legwork. Hearing 'Just do this!' is really annoying. Your husband did not walk up to you and start jumping in with unsolicited advice. You asked him what he thought and he told you. If you don’t want a solution, don’t ask for one. If you ask for one, don’t complain because the one he comes up with isn’t good enough. Of course, you don’t have to accept it if you don’t like it. But the way that conversation sounded to me - whether you meant it that way at the time or not - is that you came up to him, dumped the problem in his lap, washed your hands of it, and then acted as though he was somehow at fault for not being happy to take on the job of drawing up as long a list of solutions as it takes to come up with whichever one meets your approval. All the best, Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com |
#8
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about "bitching"
On Apr 20, 1:18 pm, mom0f4boys wrote:
'at odds about discipline' was a pretty good thread, and Vickie seems to be on a better track, but there is this issue about BITCHING that I find interesting. Lots of different opinions. A dad made the point that when a woman appeals to her husband for help with discipline, then she should accept his solution. If she doesn't like his way of handling things, she shouldn't bitch about it. I don't know if I agree with that dad. It's in the approach after advice was given. I'll explain below... Here is an example: Lately, our third son Isaac (age 10) has been swearing. This is the son I clash with.... He has ADD, is 3 years older than the youngest, and 3/4 years younger than the 'Irish twin' older two. My husband has more patience with him, and doesn't get his buttons pressed like I do when dealing with him. The other morning before school, one of the older boys was being sort of a jerk to Isaac, and Isaac shouted 'Cut the f-ing S#@t!' I made the oldest boy leave the room, turned to Isaac, and said that the language had to stop, that it was not gonna fly for him to get into the habit of cursing. Then I sent him to brush his teeth. My husband was in the kitchen, and I said, "I don't want to lose it with him, but something has to be done about his mouth... there has to be a consequence." Tim (my husband) said, "Just wash his mouth with soap every time he swears." Husband makes suggestion. I said, "I don't think I can do that." It gets shot down with no logical reasoning. Tim,"So what do you want to do?" Husband then asks if wife has any ideas since his was rejected. Me: "I don't know... but that's too harsh and physical and humiliating to me, and it would probably cause more anger isues with him." Wife states that she has no idea and now the reasoning comes to play. Which is good. Timpeeved) "So what do you WANT to do?" Basically he says what do you expect from me since what I propose doesn't fly with you and you have no ideas. Me: I don't KNOW! I want YOU to deal with it! This is where you went wrong. You still have no solution and you want him to come up with something after he already proposed a solution. Also, it can be interrupted that you want him to own this burden while restricting his approach. You should have responded, in a cool calm and nice manner, with something along the lines of "Honestly dear, I have no idea how to resolve this issue, but I don't think washing his mouth with soap is a good idea. Can you and I think of something else? Maybe when you have a minute to think this through?" See how the two approaches affect the situation? You responded in a bitch like illogical manner instead of a cool calm person looking for ideas for a solution. Tim: I already told you how I'd deal with it! Exactly. You wanted a one-way brainstorm and when given the answer, you rejected it. You probably ****ed him off at this point. What Vicky did was to keep introducing the problem in the above example without proposing a valid solution and criticizing her husband's methods, which worked. Furthermore she reintroduced the issue after arguing or dealing with her daughter, which made her an emotional fireball. That's what made her a bitch to her husband. It sort of disintegrated from there. He was ****ed that I rejected his idea, Rejecting his idea didn't really upset him. It's what transpired afterwards. and I was mad that he wouldn't brainstorm to come up with more ideas. You didn't contribute. So you approached it in an illogical manner. Each kid has a myriad of little issues that need parental input, guidance and action, and I take care of the majority of those issues. I use a LOT of thought in my solutions, and it just made me mad that he had this one off-the-cuff idea, and when I rejected it - he was DONE. Again, he was done because you didn't contribute while expecting him to produce more ideas. He probably thought your reasoning against the soap thing was illogical as well since it worked well for a lot of generations. This is not a big deal... it was a garden variety argument and it's being worked out. But I used it as an example of what Rsdf (sorry, probably wrong letters!) was talking about. No problem. I hope you can see where and why you might have been seen as a bitch. One last thing and just out of curiosity, was your husband in the kitchen when your son used profanity and how did he respond? If he wasn't in the kitchen, how would have he responded if he overheard the argument and profanity? Regards... |
#9
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about "bitching"
On Apr 20, 3:41 pm, agsf_57 wrote:
On Apr 20, 1:18 pm, mom0f4boys wrote: This is where you went wrong. You still have no solution and you want him to come up with something after he already proposed a solution. Also, it can be interrupted My bad, it should read "Interpreted". Damn spell checker! that you want him to own this burden while restricting his approach. You should have responded, in a cool calm and nice manner, with something along the lines of "Honestly dear, I have no idea how to resolve this issue, but I don't think washing his mouth with soap is a good idea. Can you and I think of something else? Maybe when you have a minute to think this through?" Regards... |
#10
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about "bitching"
"One last thing and just out of curiosity, was your husband in the
kitchen when your son used profanity and how did he respond?" He was, and he was deeply involved with toast. "You should have responded, in a cool calm and nice manner, with something along the lines of "Honestly dear, I have no idea how to resolve this issue, but I don't think washing his mouth with soap is a good idea. Can you and I think of something else? Maybe when you have a minute to think this through?" See how the two approaches affect the situation? You responded in a bitch like illogical manner instead of a cool calm person looking for ideas for a solution. " Ok, agsf, this is where things go wrong, and get weird. You just showed me a REALLY NICE WAY to say what I meant. But as an irritating situation, I abbreviated it and expected to be understood. How you worded what I meant..... GEEZ! It looks like a special little tea-party invitation with pretty curli-cues on the vowels. Don't women get accused of giving too many details when giving driving directions? SHORT AND SWEET... isn't that the way guys LIKE to receive info? But you are advising a carefully worded request in cases like this? I am frowning, and thinking that it is ridiculous that women are the ones accused of being too complicated. |
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