Amber Alert issued for fetus

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
"Child" wrote in message
...

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
She's been found, fortunately for the family, alive and well.
Sadly she won't grow up with a mother :-( I heard an amber alert had
been issued? It kind of irks me they were still calling her a fetus. I
know it's a correct medical term, just one I don't like.


At the time they didn't know if she had survived.

That wasn't really what I meant. My son was delivered stillborn at 29
weeks, but I don't think about him or talk about him as a fetus, he was
and is my baby. My friend and neighbour recently m/c at 14 weeks, a *baby*
which had developed to 8 weeks. We don't talk about her 'fetus' either.

I'm involved with a local miscarriage support service who among other
things, puts out information pamphlets on miscarriage. We had them checked
over by a local OB/GYN for accuracy before going to print, and he was
emphatic that we should change every mention of 'baby' to 'fetus'. We
refused, of course, because these women have lost *babies*!
To call them 'fetuses' diminishes their importance. It's a medical term,
acceptable when a pregnancy is being discussed between doctors, or in
medical texts. IMO, it's not an acceptable term for a doctor to use when
describing a patient's baby to the patient, or in fact any member of the
public discussing anyone else's baby. It has become derogatory, and makes
a clear distinction between a baby born living, and one that was not.
If you believe that love and the value of life cannot be measured in
pounds or inches, or in number of breaths taken, this makes sense.

Once I had a blighted ovum, and the baby/fetus never developed past 5 weeks
or so. No heartbeat was seen at the 7 week or 8 week u/s. I ended up
having a D&C, to clear out the "the products of conception" as the doctor
referred to it. It was pretty cold.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

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"Pip" wrote in message
...
I totally agree that it is a medical term that I don't think is appropriate
most of the time. The actual sound of the word makes me cringe.

It's like how doctors used to and some still do, use the term abortion
rather than m/c. The former being quite correct for the medical field but
not pleasant for the women involved. I have lost 4 babies and would rip
anyone a new a hole if they said I had lost my 4 foetuses to abortion.
Wording is very important when you are dealing with peoples feelings.

Pip


Amen! I HATE that they call m/c abortions (I think spontaneous abortions is
the term I saw)...

--
JennL
DS 06/26/98
1 tiny angel 11/03
DS 12/03/04

aka CatnipSlayer @ livin-it-up.net
--
Leader of the Cult of Worshippers of BiPolar Long-Haired Sexy Anime Guys
with Swords

"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
In ,
Pip wrote:

*
*It's like how doctors used to and some still do, use the term abortion
*rather than m/c. The former being quite correct for the medical field
but
*not pleasant for the women involved. I have lost 4 babies and would rip
*anyone a new a hole if they said I had lost my 4 foetuses to abortion.
*Wording is very important when you are dealing with peoples feelings.

But no real medical professional would say you lost those pregnancies to
"abortion" without a qualifier. It would be either "spontaneous abortion,"
which is the same as miscarriage, or it would be "elective abortion,"
which is what is colloquially referred to as "an abortion." Given that
spontaneous abortion and miscarriage are different words with the same
definition, why does it matter which is used? I truly don't understand.

-Hillary, gravida 4, para 2, 2-0-SA1-2 (that's 4 pregnancies, 2
deliveries, 2 fullterm infants, no premies, one spontaneous abortion,
two live kids)


--
Hillary Israeli, VMD

Well then why not call it a miscarriage? A m/c when you've had multiple ones
and really want a baby being called an abortion even if it;s a spontaneous
abortion hurts at least in my experience...

--
JennL
DS 06/26/98
1 tiny angel 11/03
DS 12/03/04

aka CatnipSlayer @ livin-it-up.net
--
Leader of the Cult of Worshippers of BiPolar Long-Haired Sexy Anime Guys
with Swords

"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
In ,
Pip wrote:

*
*It's like how doctors used to and some still do, use the term abortion
*rather than m/c. The former being quite correct for the medical field
but
*not pleasant for the women involved. I have lost 4 babies and would rip
*anyone a new a hole if they said I had lost my 4 foetuses to abortion.
*Wording is very important when you are dealing with peoples feelings.

But no real medical professional would say you lost those pregnancies to
"abortion" without a qualifier. It would be either "spontaneous abortion,"
which is the same as miscarriage, or it would be "elective abortion,"
which is what is colloquially referred to as "an abortion." Given that
spontaneous abortion and miscarriage are different words with the same
definition, why does it matter which is used? I truly don't understand.


Well ... because to people like me (who know that they mean the same thing)
"miscarriage" is a far less hurtful word than "spontaneous abortion".
A bit like the difference between saying you "made love" to somebody as
opposed to saying you "f---ed" them.

Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
DS 20th August 2004

"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
In ,
Mum of Two wrote:

*I'm involved with a local miscarriage support service who among other
*things, puts out information pamphlets on miscarriage. We had them
checked
*over by a local OB/GYN for accuracy before going to print, and he was
*emphatic that we should change every mention of 'baby' to 'fetus'. We
*refused, of course, because these women have lost *babies*!
*To call them 'fetuses' diminishes their importance. It's a medical term,
*acceptable when a pregnancy is being discussed between doctors, or in
*medical texts. IMO, it's not an acceptable term for a doctor to use when
*describing a patient's baby to the patient, or in fact any member of the
*public discussing anyone else's baby. It has become derogatory, and makes
a
*clear distinction between a baby born living, and one that was not.

This makes no sense to me.

I have two live children.
I have had one (known) miscarriage.
I am currently 35.5 weeks pregnant.

When I miscarried (in the first trimester), I lost a fetus. I am
completely comfortable with that (well, not with the loss, but with the
terminology) and do not in any way feel that correctly describing the loss
in any way diminishes the importance of the loss. It is CERTAINLY not
derogatory to describe it as the loss of a fetus.

Regarding the Amber Alert, I also found it odd that they described a late
third trimester preterm infant as a fetus. Once a late third trimester
fetus is delivered, it becomes a baby - by convention of course, and
hopefully due to changes in the circulatory system and due to changes in
respiration and so on. Unless it dies because it can not make the leap
from fetus to baby, that is. But that would be unlikely at that late
stage, I think.

Still, I think it is somewhat absurd to claim that the use of the word
"fetus" to describe an unborn human (or other unborn animal) is
"derogatory." It just isn't, among any social group I am familiar with,
anyway. It may be emotionally upsetting to some people, but that's a
different story.


I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Language makes a big
difference to many of us. ... and language can have different emotional
impacts to people from different ethnic, religious and social groups.
Remind me, but aren't you a vet? If so, then you probably are more used to
a more clinical type of language (I'm guessing here and don't mean to offend
if this is not the case).
To me, my babies were all real *babies* from the minute they were conceived
.... not blastocysts, embryos, fetus etc. I am a biologist (PhD botany /
ecology) and know that there are technical terms used to describe
developmental stages for the purposes of medical care and being clear
amongst professionals, but the spiritual side of me would rather refer to a
"baby" and not a fetus, and a "miscarriage" and not a "spontaneous
abortion".

Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
DS 20th August 2004

"Hillary Israeli" wrote in message
...
In ,
Pip wrote:

*
*It's like how doctors used to and some still do, use the term abortion
*rather than m/c. The former being quite correct for the medical field
but
*not pleasant for the women involved. I have lost 4 babies and would rip
*anyone a new a hole if they said I had lost my 4 foetuses to abortion.
*Wording is very important when you are dealing with peoples feelings.

But no real medical professional would say you lost those pregnancies to
"abortion" without a qualifier. It would be either "spontaneous abortion,"
which is the same as miscarriage, or it would be "elective abortion,"
which is what is colloquially referred to as "an abortion." Given that
spontaneous abortion and miscarriage are different words with the same
definition, why does it matter which is used? I truly don't understand.

Because 'abortion' has become a dirty word, so much in fact that those who
do have elective abortions commonly refer to them as 'terminations'.
Granted, the word started out harmless...much the same as the word 'negro'
was completely inoffensive and simply meant 'black' until someone coined the
derogatory term '******'.
Yes, I know that a spontaneous abortion means a miscarriage, and yes, if I
had miscarried I would still object to it being referred to as such, in case
anyone should get the wrong idea. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but not
everyone feels the same, hence the need for sensitivity.
Any doctor who doesn't consider the choice of words important when dealing
with patients should consider becoming a veterinarian.

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
email: barton . souto @ clear . net . nz (join the dots!)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/carlos2002/

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
...

Once I had a blighted ovum, and the baby/fetus never developed past 5
weeks or so. No heartbeat was seen at the 7 week or 8 week u/s. I ended
up having a D&C, to clear out the "the products of conception" as the
doctor referred to it. It was pretty cold.

That *is* cold. Our babies are babies often from _before_ they are even
conceived. As little girls, we may play with dolls and strollers (among
other things!) and imagine the children we will one day have, perhaps even
name them. They are *real* to us....pregnancy is often the realisation of a
dream that's always been there. When that dream is snatched away, we don't
just lose a 'bunch of cells', 'products of conception' or a 'fetus'. We lose
a baby who would have grown into an adorable child, who would have grown
into a tempestuous teen, who would have become the independent adult who may
have nursed *us* in old age or ill health. We lose everything that might
have been. I don't expect physicians to feel the same way about our babies,
but I expect them to accord our babies and us the respect and dignity we
deserve. If they can't be bothered, they're in the wrong job. There is more
to being a good doctor than passing med school exams with flying colours.

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
email: barton . souto @ clear . net . nz (join the dots!)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/carlos2002/

P.S. Jamie, my own father apparently used to refer to us as babies as
'little by-products of sex', FWIW. He's always had a strange sense of
humour.

"A&G&K&H" wrote in message
...

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Language makes a big
difference to many of us. ... and language can have different emotional
impacts to people from different ethnic, religious and social groups.
Remind me, but aren't you a vet? If so, then you probably are more used
to
a more clinical type of language (I'm guessing here and don't mean to
offend
if this is not the case).
To me, my babies were all real *babies* from the minute they were
conceived
... not blastocysts, embryos, fetus etc. I am a biologist (PhD botany /
ecology) and know that there are technical terms used to describe
developmental stages for the purposes of medical care and being clear
amongst professionals, but the spiritual side of me would rather refer to
a
"baby" and not a fetus, and a "miscarriage" and not a "spontaneous
abortion".

Exactly what I meant. I have a scientific mind myself, studied Latin for
several years, and am comfortable with clinical terms - I know what words
*mean*. But what words mean to me, and what they mean to the next person,
especially in emotional terms, can be very different. Hence the need for
cultural sensitivity.
I would like to assume that medical jargon is always used to patients
accidentally, and I would think this is often the case. I suspect though,
that sometimes it is used to create divides - "I'm the one with the
qualifications, I know what I'm talking about, *you* should be listening to
*me*". Doctors should speak to other doctors in words that are medically
correct that doctors understand. Doctors should speak to patients in terms
that the patient not only understands, but are sensitive to his/her
emotional needs. Anything else is incompetence.

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
email: barton . souto @ clear . net . nz (join the dots!)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/carlos2002/

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
"A&G&K&H" wrote in message
...

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Language makes a big
difference to many of us. ... and language can have different emotional
impacts to people from different ethnic, religious and social groups.
Remind me, but aren't you a vet? If so, then you probably are more used
to
a more clinical type of language (I'm guessing here and don't mean to
offend
if this is not the case).
To me, my babies were all real *babies* from the minute they were
conceived
... not blastocysts, embryos, fetus etc. I am a biologist (PhD botany /
ecology) and know that there are technical terms used to describe
developmental stages for the purposes of medical care and being clear
amongst professionals, but the spiritual side of me would rather refer to
a
"baby" and not a fetus, and a "miscarriage" and not a "spontaneous
abortion".

Exactly what I meant. I have a scientific mind myself, studied Latin for
several years, and am comfortable with clinical terms - I know what words
*mean*. But what words mean to me, and what they mean to the next person,
especially in emotional terms, can be very different. Hence the need for
cultural sensitivity.
I would like to assume that medical jargon is always used to patients
accidentally, and I would think this is often the case. I suspect though,
that sometimes it is used to create divides - "I'm the one with the
qualifications, I know what I'm talking about, *you* should be listening
to *me*". Doctors should speak to other doctors in words that are
medically correct that doctors understand. Doctors should speak to
patients in terms that the patient not only understands, but are sensitive
to his/her emotional needs. Anything else is incompetence.


I disagree with you here. How is a doctor supposed to know who is going to
react emotionally to what words? To me, a doctor is welcome to use medical
language, but he should also be aware of the emotional needs of his patients
and have a good bedside manner. The thing with science is that it isn't
emotional -- it's detached, it's even keeled, it's unbiased -- supposedly,
anyway.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password:
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Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
"Child" wrote in message
...

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
She's been found, fortunately for the family, alive and well.
Sadly she won't grow up with a mother :-( I heard an amber alert had
been issued? It kind of irks me they were still calling her a fetus. I
know it's a correct medical term, just one I don't like.


At the time they didn't know if she had survived.

That wasn't really what I meant. My son was delivered stillborn at 29
weeks, but I don't think about him or talk about him as a fetus, he was
and is my baby. My friend and neighbour recently m/c at 14 weeks, a *baby*
which had developed to 8 weeks. We don't talk about her 'fetus' either.

I'm involved with a local miscarriage support service who among other
things, puts out information pamphlets on miscarriage. We had them checked
over by a local OB/GYN for accuracy before going to print, and he was
emphatic that we should change every mention of 'baby' to 'fetus'. We
refused, of course, because these women have lost *babies*!
To call them 'fetuses' diminishes their importance. It's a medical term,
acceptable when a pregnancy is being discussed between doctors, or in
medical texts. IMO, it's not an acceptable term for a doctor to use when
describing a patient's baby to the patient, or in fact any member of the
public discussing anyone else's baby. It has become derogatory, and makes
a clear distinction between a baby born living, and one that was not.
If you believe that love and the value of life cannot be measured in
pounds or inches, or in number of breaths taken, this makes sense.


I don't necessarily agree with the idea that calling a fetus a fetus
diminishes its importance. Its STILL a fetus, whether we call it one or not.
What it does do is limit the emotionality of the subject a bit, which for ME
(not for everyone) has been appropriate and helpful. I am just starting to
think of Tadpole as a baby (I am at 15 weeks tomorrow) and not a fetus,
because I don't need to be completely attached to a fetus that miscarries.
To some extent, I think keeping that distance early in a pregnancy could
help relieve some of the pain that miscarrying parents might feel, although
I don't think everyone is capable or interested in that.