How to help friend - any ideas?

"Sophie" wrote in message
...
Maybe it's just because a hysterectomy itself is traumatic. All the
women I know who have had one were done having kids, and they all found
it fairly traumatic (because it was so much more painful than they
expected). My aunt just had one done last year, and even though she was
begging for it (problems with endo that she just couldn't take anymore),
she was still shocked after it was done. I asked her which was worse, a
hysterectomy or a c-section (she's now had both). She laughed and said
"uh, hysterectomy, for sure!!!!!!" (I honestly didn't know because I
figured that an emergency c-section like hers could quite possibly have
ranked up pretty high on the pain-o-meter ;-), especially since she also
developed a pretty bad infection afterwards)

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought a hysterectomy would have been any
more
painful than a c-section.


I assume there's more cutting of the connective tissues and maybe even the
muscles around the uterus to remove it, while in a C-section you're only
cutting an opening into the uterus itself?

That's all I can think of, anyway.

"Sophie" wrote in message
...
I'm not understanding why the assumption she's upset about this. You
said
they were only having 2 children, and that's what they have right?
Had I
needed a hysterectomy after my 4th c-section, as long as I kept my
ovaries
for the hormones, I wouldn't have minded.

If she's that good a friend, ask her about it.


I think sometimes when couples agree that they "only" want X amount of
kids the situation is that one of them really wants "Y" number of kids
but can only get their partner to agree to X. They still live in hope
that their partner will change their mind. Once the womb is gone,
however, it is kind of like that possible extra child has died, IYKWIM?

I am also in the what-do-I-want-a-womb-for-if-I'm-done-having-kids camp,
but I think this is a minority position. I had a huge argument with my
sister about this when I casually mentioned that it wouldn't bother me
if I had a hysterectomy after baby #3. Apparently you and I are victims
of a patriarchal society that has so discredited the value of anything
that is inherently female that we are willing to throw away our very
womanhood to feed the hateful expectations of our masters. Or something
like that! And there was I just thinking menstruation was a drag ...

eggs

eggs wrote:

I am also in the what-do-I-want-a-womb-for-if-I'm-done-having-kids camp,
but I think this is a minority position. I had a huge argument with my
sister about this when I casually mentioned that it wouldn't bother me
if I had a hysterectomy after baby #3. Apparently you and I are victims
of a patriarchal society that has so discredited the value of anything
that is inherently female that we are willing to throw away our very
womanhood to feed the hateful expectations of our masters. Or something
like that! And there was I just thinking menstruation was a drag ...

*giggle* Well, I wouldn't go as far as your sister at all, but to me it would
just seem *very weird* not to have a uterus any longer. I don't know that it
*would definitely* upset me especially, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if
it did, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it upset someone else in that
situation.

--Helen

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
eggs wrote:

I am also in the what-do-I-want-a-womb-for-if-I'm-done-having-kids
camp,
but I think this is a minority position. I had a huge argument with
my
sister about this when I casually mentioned that it wouldn't bother
me
if I had a hysterectomy after baby #3. Apparently you and I are
victims
of a patriarchal society that has so discredited the value of
anything
that is inherently female that we are willing to throw away our very
womanhood to feed the hateful expectations of our masters. Or
something
like that! And there was I just thinking menstruation was a drag ...

*giggle* Well, I wouldn't go as far as your sister at all, but to me
it would
just seem *very weird* not to have a uterus any longer. I don't know
that it
*would definitely* upset me especially, but I wouldn't be terribly
surprised if
it did, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it upset someone else
in that
situation.

--Helen

Oh, I can easily see how it could upset someone else, I just found it
suprising that my sister couldn't understand that it wouldn't upset
*me*.

In message , Wendy
writes
My MIL had a hysterectomy because she was losing a lot of blood after
having DH by c-sec.

I can't imagine any responsible obstetrician today removing a woman's
ovaries for that reason. I wonder if this reflects a change in overall
attitudes, or if your MIL's obstetrician was crummy even by standards of
the time?


All the best,

Sarah

--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley

In message , eggs
writes

"Sophie" wrote in message
...
I'm not understanding why the assumption she's upset about this. You
said
they were only having 2 children, and that's what they have right?
Had I
needed a hysterectomy after my 4th c-section, as long as I kept my
ovaries
for the hormones, I wouldn't have minded.

If she's that good a friend, ask her about it.


I think sometimes when couples agree that they "only" want X amount of
kids the situation is that one of them really wants "Y" number of kids
but can only get their partner to agree to X. They still live in hope
that their partner will change their mind. Once the womb is gone,
however, it is kind of like that possible extra child has died, IYKWIM?

Also, even if you genuinely don't plan on having any extra children,
there's somewhat of a difference between feeling that way yourself and
realising the decision has been, once and for all, taken out of your
hands. And, even if you're 110% certain that you'll have no future
practical use for your womb, that doesn't mean it may not have
sentimental value. There are women who can't bear to throw away their
baby's first shoes - why should it be so easy to get rid of the place
where your babies spent their first nine months?

Having said that, I do agree with the poster who pointed out that you
can't assume this woman is going to feel bad. Maybe she feels
devastated because she feels she's been stripped of her femininity, or
maybe she feels overjoyed that she'll never have to put up with periods
again. Or maybe she feels overjoyed about losing her periods but still
totally fed up that she's coping with the practical after-effects of a
big operation just at a time of her life when she really doesn't need to
be laid up. Best bet is probably just to accept her reaction whatever
it is, and listen if she wants to unload.

I am also in the what-do-I-want-a-womb-for-if-I'm-done-having-kids camp,
but I think this is a minority position. I had a huge argument with my
sister about this when I casually mentioned that it wouldn't bother me
if I had a hysterectomy after baby #3. Apparently you and I are victims
of a patriarchal society that has so discredited the value of anything
that is inherently female that we are willing to throw away our very
womanhood to feed the hateful expectations of our masters. Or something
like that! And there was I just thinking menstruation was a drag ...

rolls eyes, rueful grin You could always try telling her that she's
clearly been conditioned by the patriarchal society into thinking that
her conventional female organs are an integral part of her identity, and
that she needs to rid herself of these sexist preconditionings.....

Then again, perhaps not. Something tells me it wouldn't be a terribly
productive discussion. ;-)


All the best,

Sarah
--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley

In ,
Sarah Vaughan wrote:

*In message , Wendy
writes
*My MIL had a hysterectomy because she was losing a lot of blood after
*having DH by c-sec.
*
*I can't imagine any responsible obstetrician today removing a woman's
*ovaries for that reason. I wonder if this reflects a change in overall

Well, hysterectomy is not removal of the ovaries. It is removal of the
uterus, and it is IMO extremely responsible to control otherwise
uncontrollable hemorrhage by removing the source! Of course, that assumes
that other forms of medical and surgical management were at least
attempted prior to hysterectomy which may or may not have been the case
for Wendy's MIL.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In message , Hillary Israeli
writes
In ,
Sarah Vaughan wrote:

*In message , Wendy
writes
*My MIL had a hysterectomy because she was losing a lot of blood after
*having DH by c-sec.
*
*I can't imagine any responsible obstetrician today removing a woman's
*ovaries for that reason. I wonder if this reflects a change in overall

Well, hysterectomy is not removal of the ovaries. It is removal of the
uterus, and it is IMO extremely responsible to control otherwise
uncontrollable hemorrhage by removing the source! Of course, that assumes
that other forms of medical and surgical management were at least
attempted prior to hysterectomy which may or may not have been the case
for Wendy's MIL.

You missed the earlier bits of the thread - Wendy said her mother-in-law
had had her ovaries removed at the same time. At least, I thought
that's what she said. I just went back and checked, and in fact she
didn't specifically say this, just said that her MIL went through
menopause afterwards. It's possible that this was due not to her having
her ovaries removed but due to general disruption of blood supply from
an emergency hysterectomy and the blood loss prior to that, which may
have been inevitable and would make a whole lot more sense than an
obstetrician removing the ovaries of a 27-year-old woman.

But, no, I do know perfectly well what a hysterectomy was, and wasn't
talking about whether or not that had been appropriate. ;-)


All the best,

Sarah

--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley