"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

"Clisby Williams" wrote in message
...


dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
Clisby Williams wrote:



dragonlady wrote:



In article ymHPa.38200$H17.11890@sccrnsc02, "Corinne"
wrote:





I was alerted to this article on an email group I'm part of....I was
AMAZED
and greatly disappointed to read the following:

"The August 2003 issue of Real Simple magazine, currently on
newstands,
contains an article titled "20 Time Wasting Rules to Break Now."
(page 136)

What's one of the rules to break? Breastfeeding. The article states
that with bottle-feeding, "you know exactly how much food the baby is
eating, and Mom may be less tired because Dad has no excuse to sleep
through 3 a.m. feedings."




Aside from everything else that's wrong with this, I can't, personally,
imagine that bottle feeding is LESS time consuming that breast feeding
-- assuming you aren't "propping" your baby, which is a bad idea
anyway.
I know I visited households with twins the same age as mine who were
being bottle fed, and the amount of time devoted to mixing formula,
cleaning bottles, buying stuff, and, in one case, keeping the two
formulas seperate -- it just looked like a real time consuming effort
compared to plopping a breast (or two) out.

meh




Actually, that's the one thing I agree with. My first child was
formula-fed, and my second
breastfed. The formula-feeding was definitely simpler for me. But
then, it might have
made my life "simpler" to plop the babies in a playpen in a soundproofed
room and close
the door. What's simplest is not always what's preferable.

Clisby




I don't want to dispute you -- I believe you -- but I can't figure out
how formula and bottles could be simpler than breastfeeding, especially
if you spend much time out of the house, but even if you are home all
the time.

Can you explain how it was simpler?

meh



Sure. The major thing, of course, is that if you formula-feed a child,
you don't have to do
it all. Until my daughter was about 7 months old, my husband did the
majority of the
feeding (he was the SAHP for most of that time.) How could BF possibly
have been simpler for me?

With my breastfed child: for the first 3 months, breastfeeding was
very difficult. YMMV,
but I can't consider something that caused that much pain to have made
my life simpler.
The second three months were much better, but still not easy, by any
measure. And again,
I had to do it all. That's the huge downside of breastfeeding. I
think it's easy now; but
I have a 17-month-old who only nurses 3-4 times in a 24-hour period, and
probably wouldn't
care if I cut it back to twice.

In my experience of reading these newsgroups, people who talk about the
inconvenience
of formula feeding typically are grossly exaggerating the amount of time
and bother it takes.
Here's the kind of thing I read:

1. You have to sterilize bottles. (No, you don't.)
2. You have to get up in the middle of the night and fix a bottle.
(Only if your definition
of "fixing a bottle" is: reach in the refrigerator, pull out a
bottle, stick it in the baby's
mouth. If you have a picky baby, maybe you microwave it for 10
seconds first.)
3. If you go out with the baby, you have to wait until you find
somewhere to warm up
the bottle. (No, you don't.)
4. You have to go to the trouble of buying the formula. (Oh, give me
a break.)
5. You might run out of formula. (Never happened. How much
trouble is it to remember
to buy the only food your baby eats?)



Clisby






Sorry I certainly don't want to say that breastfeeding is time wasting. I
have every intention of breastfeeding my second for as long as possible.

However I do agree, bottle feeding was easier for us. For pretty much the
same reasons. I made up all the bottles at once and then he had the same
amount at the same time very day, very simple. I did breastfeed him at first
before he got into a pattern, I imagine bottle feeding on demand in the
early weeks is a bit more complicated though.

Judy

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:30:47 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

Aside from everything else that's wrong with this, I can't, personally,
imagine that bottle feeding is LESS time consuming that breast feeding
-- assuming you aren't "propping" your baby, which is a bad idea anyway.
I know I visited households with twins the same age as mine who were
being bottle fed, and the amount of time devoted to mixing formula,
cleaning bottles, buying stuff, and, in one case, keeping the two
formulas seperate -- it just looked like a real time consuming effort
compared to plopping a breast (or two) out.

Well first of all, I didnt clean bottles. I used the replaceable bags
and had enough nipples to lst a long time.

Secondly (and this is a benefit, having done both), my younger
children could be held and fed by their dad, by me, by their ten year
old sister ..you get the drift.

I got much more sleep as a formula feeding parent, and much more free
time.

This is not a statement about the value of one kind of feeding over
the other, just a statement on my experience with the "time" factor.

Barb

On 12 Jul 2003 19:10:18 -0700, Banty wrote:


Friends: Sooo, what are you doing Sunday?
Me: I finally have time to get back to that quilt I've been putting off!
Friends: Oh - since you're not reaally doing anything, how about going boating
with us on Sunday!

NOt really doing anything????????????????????/

Barb ( who loves to quilt but does try and have both a big and a
protable project at all times, since she travels at a minute's notice
sometimes)

In article ,
Barbara Bomberger wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:30:47 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

Aside from everything else that's wrong with this, I can't, personally,
imagine that bottle feeding is LESS time consuming that breast feeding
-- assuming you aren't "propping" your baby, which is a bad idea anyway.
I know I visited households with twins the same age as mine who were
being bottle fed, and the amount of time devoted to mixing formula,
cleaning bottles, buying stuff, and, in one case, keeping the two
formulas seperate -- it just looked like a real time consuming effort
compared to plopping a breast (or two) out.

Well first of all, I didnt clean bottles. I used the replaceable bags
and had enough nipples to lst a long time.

Secondly (and this is a benefit, having done both), my younger
children could be held and fed by their dad, by me, by their ten year
old sister ..you get the drift.

I got much more sleep as a formula feeding parent, and much more free
time.

This is not a statement about the value of one kind of feeding over
the other, just a statement on my experience with the "time" factor.

Barb


I can definately see how formula and bottles would be a time saver and
simpler for the mother in a household with more adults (or older kids)
than babies; I know how much I enjoyed feeding my younger brother and
sister -- and if mom had nursed, I would not have had that particular
pleasure. I guess I was just thinking in terms of "person hours" --
the total time spent -- not just "mother hours".

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Sue wrote:

Cheryl S. wrote in message news:bes69l$8en21


Another INTJ heard from. ;-)



If I knew what that meant, I could probably say that I am too. )

--
Sue
mom to three girls




Well, of course, because INTJs are cool. The initials come from the
Myers-Briggs
personality assessement test, which is based (I think) on Jungian
psychology. Anyhow, you
answer a bunch of questions and are assessed on these characteristics:

I/E introverted/extroverted
N/S intuitive/sensing
T/F thinking/feeling
J/P judging/perceiving

I took it at work once - I can't remember if it was a team-building
exercise or something
else. There are web-based tests, too - I took one of those once and
also came out
as INTJ.

However, you didn't say what kind of needlework you do.

Clisby

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"The Ranger" wrote:

dragonlady asked in message
...
[snip]
but I can't figure out how formula and bottles could be
simpler than breastfeeding, [..]
Can you explain how it was simpler?

In our case it was as simple as:
1) Purchase multiple cases of concentrated liquid formula insert myriad
of
choices from Toys-R-Us (either at a B&M or on-line); store in pantry
until
needed. On our trip through TX, we were able to purchase pre-measured,
fully-mixed liquid formula where we swapped their lid for our bottle
nipples.
2) Get two cans from storage. Pop tops with can opener.
3) Pour both into pitcher; measure out appropriate amount of water.
Stir.
4) P(remeasure)our into all available bottles. Cap. Refrigerate.

During feeding the steps we
1) Grab two at a time from 'fridge, pop into microwave, nuke for 30
seconds,
shake, test.
2) Pop on nipple cap and pop into infants' mouths.

I remember feeding taking a maximum of 15 minutes for each child. (Spawn
was
a little more difficult because she was a lazy feeder and tended to try
to
nap.)

The Ranger



OK -- but how was that simpler than:

1) Sit down
2) Plop out breast(s)?

Which requires no refrigeration, microwave, store, pitcher, or measuring
cups?

(Again, I really am NOT trying to be difficult; I've heard people say
that bottles were simpler than breasts. Since my first was
bottle/formula fed after a few months, and my twins breastfed, I have
the comparison, and considered breast SO much simpler -- I'm just trying
to understand why, for some folks, the bottle is simpler.)

(And, yes, I understand that for many people bottle feeding is
necessary/desirable for reasons that have nothing to do with simplicity.)

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care


I thought Clisby's answer was pretty descriptive. Pumping is a drag. There
is nothing simple about it. Dad was home all day; she wasn't. And the
ability to share feeding can simplify things. Simple is in the eye of the
beholder if you ask me. Each family's organizational style is different.
Some people acheive efficiency by job sharing, some by stripping steps.

S

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:


Yep - that's the extrovert-introvert split. Extroverts all want introverts
like
me to toss aside the books, the hobbies, and the simple solitary pleasures,
defer these things to our dotages, "come out of (our) shells", and spend
whatever moments we can With Other People. Drives Banty batty. :-)


However, I would also be seriously annoyed at having my quilting
described as "not really doing anything"!

Hear hear!

Aren't we supposed to be talking about BF'ing??

Banty


Well, if you insist . . .

I shoulda put a smiley :-)


I wonder if this isn't part of the breastfeeding split?

I think maternal temprament is part of it. I don't think it necessarily splits
along introvert-extrovert lines. I can easily envision a sanguine introvert
loving the quiet time with baby(s). It's probably more on an activity
characteristic. Although not necessarily physical activity. Part of *my*
experience of bf'ing as a long sitting-chore was that I had no hands free to
pursue any mental activity. If I were a B-cup, I might have liked it better.


For me -- someone who needs to be around other people to get rejuvinated
-- breastfeeding was something that made ME feel good. I enjoyed it,
and was sad when my oldest gave it up so early. I never understood why
folks who COULD breastfeed without serious problems would prefer to
bottle feed.

WEll, IMO this isn't a deciding factor - after all, getting through Cub Scout
nights was also sometimes something of a chore! One stretches one's boundaries
of tolerance to parent.


If, on the other hand, for folks like you it feels more like a chore --
bottles WOULD be simpler, since it tends to be faster and since other
people can do it, too. (Regardless of a person's reason, I would be
hard pressed to criticize anyone's choice when it comes to this, or most
other parenting issues!)

I'm about to take the Myers-Briggs for the first time (I've actively
avoided it) and am reasonably certain that I'll turn up an "E"; I
wonder if anyone has ever looked at this particular aspect of
personality type and parenting styles? I wonder if E's, for example,
are more likely to breast feed, or use attachment parenting?


I test INTJ. It absolutely fits.

Banty

In article , Dawn says...



Banty wrote:

In article ,
dragonlady says...



I always figure that, if it isn't exploring rivers and swimming in seas,
there's
LOTS of quiet relaxing stuff *I* like to do in my nice air-conditioned house
:-)

Banty


I like a balance. Last visit to my father, I had to slow him down as to what we
all were to do. And it's *his* health that's failing. (That's unusual,
actually, almost as if he was trying to make up for something.)

It's just that sitting, per se, and yammering, per se, isn't enough for long.

I'm like that too, but I don't feel that I should deprive my child of the
benefits
of breastfeeding just because I can't give a half hour or less several times in
a
day for a while. I'm nursing a 10 mo and after the first short while, it hasn't
slowed me down any more than having a small child slows anyone down (have to
dress,
bathe, change, transport, and cuddle ff babies as well as bf babies)

Oh don't get me wrong - like I said in another post, in parenting one needs to
go out of one's comfort zone when it's important.

It's just that I think some bf'ers, whom the process really suits, don't
understand that it's a bigger sacrifice for other women than it is for them.


I guess I just don't understand this p.o.v. very well and feel sad that any baby
should miss out on breastmilk for perceived convenience sake.


I feel sad when I read statements like this. I feel sad when I think that some
folks can't think of another word than sad ;-)

What is it with the word "sad" in these bf discussions?? Even when talking to
another bfing woman, if something isn't quite in place, it's said to be
saaaaaaaaaadddd.

Banty

"Banty" wrote in message
...
Yep. "Not really doing anything" More often unspoken, though, but you
know
that if one says "I'm going to a ball game with my sister and her kids"
they
would say "OK - have a good time", but if it's "I'm finishing a tailored
coat
for myself" the response is "so can you join us tomorrow?"

I really hate the "so what are you doing xxxxtime" invitations. I say
"what -
why?" Then they usually come out with it, rather than comparing my plans
to
theirs first.



I also like getting to the chase on those types of comments. I really enjoy
sitting in my back yard, watching the grass grow, the clouds float by,
listening to the birds and locusts, and embroidering by the hour. So many
people think that is done because I can think of nothing better to do. I
find it a huge stress reliever and I just enjoy it.

So, world, where would the great artistic creations of the world be if
artistic creation was viewed by even more people to be a time waster?

-Aula, off to mow the lawn so I can watch it grow some more......


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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In article , "just says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
Yep. "Not really doing anything" More often unspoken, though, but you
know
that if one says "I'm going to a ball game with my sister and her kids"
they
would say "OK - have a good time", but if it's "I'm finishing a tailored
coat
for myself" the response is "so can you join us tomorrow?"

I really hate the "so what are you doing xxxxtime" invitations. I say
"what -
why?" Then they usually come out with it, rather than comparing my plans
to
theirs first.



I also like getting to the chase on those types of comments. I really enjoy
sitting in my back yard, watching the grass grow, the clouds float by,
listening to the birds and locusts, and embroidering by the hour. So many
people think that is done because I can think of nothing better to do. I
find it a huge stress reliever and I just enjoy it.

So, world, where would the great artistic creations of the world be if
artistic creation was viewed by even more people to be a time waster?

Some day, some day, I would just LOVE to say something like "oh, foo - you can
party ANYTIME...how about joining me and starting an embroidery project of your
own - I can show you this new stitch I'm using from a book on Turkish embroidery
- 'sira ishi'..."

Cheers,
Banty