Bullies at a birthday party

In article .com, Vickie
says...

On Jul 5, 10:54 am, Banty wrote:
In article .com, Vickie
says...







Hey,

My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives
convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets
along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family
and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much.

It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our
block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't
overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like
the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son
can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean.

I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just
me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him
was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to
quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta
here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way
to advise him.

The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a
little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will
do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation.

So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself?
Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention
anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on
so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to
why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)?

Oh good grief.

Do what you would do if you were invited to a small gathering, and you couldn't
stand two of the other invitees.

Make a vague, etiquette-demanding excuse about other things keeping him away and
previous plans (perfectly good previous plan: a night wihtout being bullied
doing something, anything *else* - keep it in mind; it's not a lie; you don't
have to specify) and DON'T make him GO.

SIL shouldn't be all over your family's calendar to know any different.

This isn't hard. It's just that we can't seem to respect our kids' social needs
to say "no" sometimes.

Banty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alright, alright. Don't be condescending.

They do live 4 houses down. I really don't want to make an excuse.

Fine-- it is not hard. I do want to respect my kid's social needs.
With the family thing thrown in the mix - I was having trouble
deciding.

Well, I don't mean you specifically - it's societal.

But I *do* think this wouldn't even begin to be a question if there were a bunch
of adult people there who would bully an adult. You'd be crazy to go. And you
wouldn't be thinking "sooner or later I have to learn to deal with this so maybe
this is a learning experience". You would not go.

Banty

In article .com,
says...

On Jul 5, 11:17 am, Vickie wrote:
On Jul 5, 10:54 am, Banty wrote:





In article .com, Vickie
says...

Hey,

My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives
convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets
along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family
and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much.

It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our
block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't
overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like
the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son
can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean.

I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just
me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him
was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to
quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta
here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way
to advise him.

The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a
little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will
do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation.

So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself?
Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention
anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on
so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to
why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)?

Oh good grief.

Do what you would do if you were invited to a small gathering, and you
couldn't
stand two of the other invitees.

Make a vague, etiquette-demanding excuse about other things keeping him away
and
previous plans (perfectly good previous plan: a night wihtout being bullied
doing something, anything *else* - keep it in mind; it's not a lie; you don't
have to specify) and DON'T make him GO.

SIL shouldn't be all over your family's calendar to know any different.

This isn't hard. It's just that we can't seem to respect our kids' social
needs
to say "no" sometimes.

Banty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alright, alright. Don't be condescending.

They do live 4 houses down. I really don't want to make an excuse.

Fine-- it is not hard. I do want to respect my kid's social needs.
With the family thing thrown in the mix - I was having trouble
deciding.

Vickie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

i realize that the action has already been completed, but as a teenage
boy myself, i'm not entirely sure that of the fairly options, this was
entirely the best. Any mother would consider her son's feelings
first, and you clearly care about your son a great deal. The thing
is, I was an 11 year old boy only 6 years ago, so I remember that
time, and it IS very common for that age group. It's an awkward time
in every 11 year old boy's life; however, some boys are only slightly
more charismatic. These charismatic boys are able to draw others to
them - they are "cool." Look, they will grow up and just be normal
boys, they won't be bullies all their lives. The thing is, the best
way to deal with a bully at the 11 year old boy age group is to hang
out with the bully. Make him your friend. They may be mean for a
while, but if your son jokes around with them and shows them that he
is just another kid, they will accept him into the group. I would
advise him to try and play with these guys, because they could be his
good friends in just 3 or 4 years, when he will reach probably the
most awkward stage of his entire life, but where the bullying stage
has pretty much stopped (I'm in high school now, and bullying is a
thing of the past. I was especially awkward: i had chubby cheeks, I
wasn't good at sports or talking to the cute girls with the pig tails.
Once i got into high school I filled out a little bit, and honestly?
In high school, bullyign pretty much just stops). That is my advice -
have him do what he can to get those bullies on his side. I hope your
son finds a way to alleviate his bullying situation


Which all too often is to join the bully in bullying *other* kids. If you're
accepted at all. From my experience, too, having tried that.

Sorry, but I think this is in general bad advice. And it just adds to the
blame-the-victim tendancy around bullying.

Banty

In article . com, Vickie
says...

On Jul 5, 12:02 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:

You don't need to give any excuses. Just say thank you, but
he won't be able to attend. If your SIL asks questions, you can
stand by the vague answer, or you can say something along the lines
of him preferring to celebrate with his cousin one-on-one or something
like that. I assume you're close enough with your SIL that you
can have some of these discussions without her going around the
bend. If not, stick to the vague answer.
I deal (unfortunately) with this pre-teen boy physical
crap all the time. It's not always actual bullying. Sometimes
it's just that pre-teen boy physicality combined with a little
too much impulsiveness (i.e., the normal roughhousing turns on
a dime into something more). *DON'T* just tell your son to get
in there and handle the situation. He may not yet have the social
skills and maturity to do that. *You* know how he could defuse
the situation, and *I* know what he could do, but he's not going
to be successful at it until *he* knows what to do and has the
maturity to carry it out in a tactful way. In the meantime,
he's not likely to make things better with his attempts, especially
if his heart isn't in it. You might have to do that in a situation
where attendance isn't optional, but here it is.
Also, I'm all for calling bullying bullying, but a lot of
this stuff really isn't bullying and you polarize the situation
*very* quickly using that term when it's not really bullying.
(Or maybe it is, in your situation, in which case I definitely
wouldn't send him into the situation when he doesn't want to be
there.)

Good point. Not too sure I *would* classify it as bullying. I think
it is more along the lines of fighting to be alpha-male and the
differences in how to obtain that.
My son's heart isn't in it, oh he is competitive, but he doesn't stoop
to the same levels as these kids. Meaning if he has a problem with a
kid - he takes it one on one. Where these tend to band together,
which is hard for anyone to deal with. And then the weaker boys will
side with the gang - so they don't end up being the odd one out.

It is all very confusing, and I know he has to figure it out, but I
really don't want to force him to go, although I would like him to, so
he *can* find a way to deal.

Frankly I think the whole gamut of bullying to teasing and wrasling to just
striving for big-man-on-campus popularity is fundamentally a primal thing about
setting a dominance heirarchy. And that it's perfectly legitimate not to want
to spend one's social life dealing with striving alpha-people if one doesn't
want to. This is supposed to be civilization.

So, while I think it's a good point that this may not be bullying per se and it
should be kept in perspective, it's really all a matter of definition and where
to draw the line in a continuum IMO. And doesn't say much about if the party
needs to be attended with those particular other boys, only about whether or not
it's appropriate to send those boys to a counsellor or even the police ;-)

If an adult couple were invited to a backyard BBQ with a neighbor and the
irritating know-it-all couple across the street they wave to but don't care to
pursue friendship with, they're well within their rights and are being perfectly
rational in turning it down. If all the know-it-all and lording-it-over verbal
behavior can truly be called "bullying" or not.

I'm saying the same goes for 11 year old boys and there should be zero
hand-wringing about it.

There's plenty of opportunity to learn in school and extracuriculars how to deal
with that stuff, be it bullying or just heirarchy-sorting. At his own pace, and
without being stuck into a situation where he's put at a big disadvantage, no
where to go, no one else to go talk to instead.

Banty

On Jul 5, 12:27 pm, "Stephanie" wrote:
"Vickie" wrote in message

oups.com...





Hey,

My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives
convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets
along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family
and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much.

It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our
block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't
overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like
the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son
can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean.

I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just
me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him
was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to
quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta
here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way
to advise him.

The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a
little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will
do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation.

I would not only not insist he go, I would *tell her why.* Why hide the
fact that these two are bullies?

So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself?

No.

Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention
anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on
so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to
why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)?

Vickie

Don't make him go and tell her why.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, got it. The weird thing will be what her response will be?
1- Look at me as if my boy is a wimp, criticize my decision
2- Promise she will handle the situation
3- Tell me it is about her son and his birthday and that mine should
be there for him
4- Give me the roll of the eyes and a big sigh of OK. (hate that one,
makes you feel like you are a troublemaker)


I know, I know - working on not caring what people think and getting a
backbone. She is family so it is hard, is all.

Vickie

On Jul 5, 3:19 pm, Vickie wrote:
On Jul 5, 12:27 pm, "Stephanie" wrote:



"Vickie" wrote in message

roups.com...

Hey,

My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives
convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets
along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family
and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much.

It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our
block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't
overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like
the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son
can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean.

I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just
me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him
was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to
quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta
here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way
to advise him.

The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a
little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will
do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation.

I would not only not insist he go, I would *tell her why.* Why hide the
fact that these two are bullies?

So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself?

No.

Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention
anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on
so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to
why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)?

Vickie

Don't make him go and tell her why.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, got it. The weird thing will be what her response will be?
1- Look at me as if my boy is a wimp, criticize my decision
2- Promise she will handle the situation
3- Tell me it is about her son and his birthday and that mine should
be there for him
4- Give me the roll of the eyes and a big sigh of OK. (hate that one,
makes you feel like you are a troublemaker)

I know, I know - working on not caring what people think and getting a
backbone. She is family so it is hard, is all.

Vickie


Can you say "Timmy is so sorry to miss this. Can he and your Tommy go
to the new Harry Potter movie this weekend". or some such..

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:28:00 -0000, wrote:

them - they are "cool." Look, they will grow up and just be normal
boys, they won't be bullies all their lives. The thing is, the best
way to deal with a bully at the 11 year old boy age group is to hang
out with the bully. Make him your friend. They may be mean for a
while, but if your son jokes around with them and shows them that he
is just another kid, they will accept him into the group. I would
advise him to try and play with these guys, because they could be his
good friends in just 3 or 4 years, when he will reach probably the
most awkward stage of his entire life, but where the bullying stage
has pretty much stopped (I'm in high school now, and bullying is a
thing of the past. I was especially awkward: i had chubby cheeks, I
wasn't good at sports or talking to the cute girls with the pig tails.
Once i got into high school I filled out a little bit, and honestly?
In high school, bullyign pretty much just stops). That is my advice -
have him do what he can to get those bullies on his side. I hope your
son finds a way to alleviate his bullying situation

I agree with Banty. Why would anyone want to hang out with bullies anyway?
Why would anyone try to gain their acceptance? Down the road, the kids
might change. If they truly change, they will seek out friendship with the
child they bullied rather than the other way around. From experience, I
doubt it. Child bullies become adult bullies. They are just better at
camouflaging their actions.

"Vickie" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 5, 12:27 pm, "Stephanie" wrote:
"Vickie" wrote in message

oups.com...





Hey,

My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives
convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets
along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family
and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much.

It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our
block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't
overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like
the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son
can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean.

I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just
me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him
was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to
quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta
here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way
to advise him.

The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a
little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will
do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation.

I would not only not insist he go, I would *tell her why.* Why hide the
fact that these two are bullies?

So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself?

No.

Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention
anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on
so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to
why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)?

Vickie

Don't make him go and tell her why.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, got it. The weird thing will be what her response will be?



Yeah contemplating that sucks.

1- Look at me as if my boy is a wimp, criticize my decision


How about ... look at MOM, Mom is a wimp. I find that a good deal easier to
handle!

2- Promise she will handle the situation
3- Tell me it is about her son and his birthday and that mine should
be there for him


If she says that, then she is a heel!

4- Give me the roll of the eyes and a big sigh of OK. (hate that one,
makes you feel like you are a troublemaker)


I know, I know - working on not caring what people think and getting a
backbone. She is family so it is hard, is all.

Vickie



You need to work on your inner bitch! Just kidding. It is a kinda sucky. *I*
personally find it liberating that I don't give a rats ass what most peopel
think of me. But I realize I am in the minority. The only thing I would
worry about is hurting a SIL's feelings, and by extension making trouble for
a brother.

Best fo luck.

Vickie wrote:
Hey,

My son is invited to his cousin's sleepover. Cousin lives
convieniently right down the street. He is balking on going. He gets
along well with his cousin, and a mutual close friend of our family
and theirs will be going. Someone he likes very much.

It is a couple other invitees he has problems with. They live on our
block also and my son just doesn't get on with them. My son isn't
overly sensitive, but these two are fairly *bullyish* and really like
the gang-up mentality. Sort of normal for 11 year old boys. My son
can take it pretty much, but they get pretty mean.

I wish he would go and take these 2 down a few pegs, but that is just
me. So, he is undecided if he will go. Another options I told him
was - if they start at him, to not let it get to him, tell them to
quit, and not lose his temper. Then if they don't say - I am outta
here, and come on home. I really don't know at this point which way
to advise him.

The other sticky wicket is that this is his cousin. It will be a
little awkward telling my SIL that my son won't be attending. I will
do it, of course, my son comes first. Just a crappy situation.

So, should I try to persuade him to go and stand up for himself?
Should I let him decide what he is ready for? And should I mention
anything to my SIL ahead of time - like make sure you keep an eye on
so and so because they can be bullies or - just make an excuse as to
why he won't be attending (if he decides not to go)?

Vickie


It seems to me that one thing that you could do is talk to SIL and
explain the problem. If he spends time at the cousins, it is probably a
good idea, even without the party.

jeff

Banty wrote:
[...]
But I *do* think this wouldn't even begin to be a question if there were a bunch
of adult people there who would bully an adult. You'd be crazy to go. And you
wouldn't be thinking "sooner or later I have to learn to deal with this so maybe
this is a learning experience". You would not go.

Not necessarily. If it was a party I wanted to go to, I probably
wouldn't let the presence of bullies put me off, on the basis that I
wouldn't see why the hell I should let them intimidate me out of going
to something I wanted to go to.

(This is not to say that I think that the OP's son *should* go. As I
said, I think the best thing would be for him to decide for himself,
which, according to the original post, he hasn't yet done. Just trying
to give another viewpoint, to show one reason why I don't feel we should
be assuming what he should or shouldn't do.)


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

Vickie wrote:
[...]
It is all very confusing, and I know he has to figure it out, but I
really don't want to force him to go, although I would like him to, so
he *can* find a way to deal.

Avoiding people you don't want to spend time with is one perfectly
legitimate way of dealing. I don't think forcing him into a situation
he didn't feel ready for would help him to deal.

As I said, I suspect that what will help him deal most is helping him to
work out for himself what he wants to do, rather than advising him one
way or the other.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell