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10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 3rd 04, 08:33 PM
Kane
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Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

On 3 Mar 2004 03:39:25 -0800, (Greg Hanson) wrote:

10 day old stolen 6 years ago
WHY does the state have jurisdiction?
What gives the state any right to delay this reunification?


Are you as lacking in imagination as you are information?

Empathy disability is a very serious lack in humans, Greegor.

Try to imagine what the little girl is going through and what she will
be facing.

Her "mother" of six years, who she undoubtedly loves and needs, is
gone...for good.

A stranger...too her....is going to rush in and grab her up with no
preparation or explanation before the fact?

She is six. Even adults that suddenly learn they were adopted are
deeply troubled and upset, unable to process so much so fast.

Even people that DO know they were separated as children, when they
reunite, go through profound and upsetting changes. Sometimes it's so
overwhelming they blow out psychologically and do stupid things.

Do you NEVER think before you come to such stupid conclusions as this
assumption of yours shows?

Girl Thought to Have Died Found Alive
PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- A 10-day-old girl thought to have died in a
1997 fire was actually kidnapped by a woman who set the blaze to
cover her tracks, police said Monday.


Notice: This girl has zero memory of another person as her mother. She
will have some imprinting memories, and they will in time serve for
reuniting, but no "attachment" memories that come from constant
nurturing over time by the bio mother and the child.

The biological mother
contacted authorities after seeing the now 6-year-old at a
birthday party and recognizing the child as her own.


And those authorities need to check out her story, and her evidence,
rather than go rushing off "giving the child a shower."

http://g.msn.com/0US!s5.31472_315529/64.c3913/1
Woman spots daughter thought to have died
Suspected kidnapper surrenders to police
Associated Press Updated: 6:57 p.m. ET March 02, 2004

PHILADELPHIA - Luz Cuevas took one look at the dimpled, dark-haired
little girl at a birthday party and instantly knew two things: She

was
watching her own daughter — presumed killed in a 1997 fire
— and she needed a way to prove it.

So Cuevas pretended the 6-year-old girl had gum in her hair, removed
five strands from the child's head, folded them in a napkin and

placed
them in a plastic bag.

"Because of TV, I knew they needed hair for the DNA," Cuevas said
Tuesday.

The DNA tests confirmed a mother's intuition.


Do you believe that legal custody of a child should be changed on
"mother's intuition," Greegor, or on legally admissible proven in a
court of law evidence?

Take your time. This is for a grade, ten percent of your semester
overall.

The girl was Cuevas' only daughter, Delimar Vera — the girl
everyone else believed had perished in a house fire when she was only
10 days old.

Investigators believe a family acquaintance stole the baby from her
crib, set the fire to cover the crime and raised the little girl as
her own.

Carolyn Correa, of Willingboro, N.J., who was wanted on charges of
arson and kidnapping surrendered to police in Philadelphia Tuesday
afternoon, said her attorney, Jeffrey Zucker.

Girl taken into state custody
The little girl has been taken into state custody in New Jersey. It
was not immediately clear when she would be reunited with her mother.

Fire officials believed the 1997 blaze at Cuevas' Philadelphia home
was sparked by a home-rigged extension cord connected to a space
heater. The fire was put out in 10 minutes, but Delimar's room was
gutted, and investigators concluded that the infant's body must have
been consumed by the intense heat and flames.

The fire was put out in 10 minutes, but Delimar's room was gutted,

and
investigators concluded that the infant's body must have been

consumed
by the intense heat and flames.

Cuevas said several things made her suspicious.

"I went inside the room and looked in the crib, and she wasn't

there,"
Cuevas said, adding that the window was inexplicably open though it
was a cold winter evening. Police and fire officials that night told
the hysterical mother that "maybe it was my nerves."

Cuevas, 31, said she was also suspicious because Correa, 42, had
announced that she was pregnant during a visit shortly after

Delimar's
birth. According to Cuevas, Correa abruptly ceased contact after the
blaze.

Cuevas, who speaks in halting English, said she instantly recognized
the child as her daughter at the Jan. 24 birthday party. It was
unclear what brought the girl, who was being called Aliyah, and her
biological mother to the same party.

'I want to hug her'
"When I see her, I saw that she was my daughter," said Cuevas. "I

want
to hug her. I want to run with her."

She sought help from state Rep. Angel Cruz, who represents the poor,
largely Hispanic neighborhood where Cuevas lives. Cruz said he was
skeptical at first but "something inside" told him that there could

be
something to the bizarre claim. He called police, who contacted

Correa
for a DNA test that ultimately proved Cuevas right.

"It's a mother's way. It's motherly intuition," the lawmaker said.


Yet he was careful to go by the law. How is it you cannot?

Cuevas and Delimar's father, Pedro Vera, 39, had a baby boy after
Delimar's disappearance but broke up under the STRAIN OF LOSING THEIR
DAUGHTER.

"Right now I want to see my daughter," Pedro Vera said. "I am so
happy. I just want to see my daughter."

It will be up to a FAMILY COURT JUDGE to determine where the little
girl will live.

[What about this story gives them any damned jurisdiction!? Greg]


Did you notice there are no quote marks around that statement?

Since the child was stolen that brings her, as you ninnies are always
screaming CPS should be doing, under the jurisdiction of the state.

She is a child at risk. There is no way of knowing if the mother is
safe for the child to live with. We'd all like to think so, as such
human interest stories are carefully slanted to make us think.

But since a law was broken, and it involved a child, the child's best
interests come to the foreground immediately.

What would you yahoos be saying if the police simply delvered the
child to the mother, after a quick once over by CPS, and the mother
turned out to abuse and or neglect the child later?

Correa pleaded guilty to a 1996 arson at a medical office in New
Jersey and got five years' probation, according to court records.

Neighbors who used garden hoses and fire extinguishers in a futile
attempt to help Cuevas reach her newborn on the night of the fire
reacted to the news with joy and anger.

Jose Rosario, a former next-door neighbor, said he took a drink to
celebrate.

"I was happy she was alive," said Rosario, who recalled grabbing a
fire extinguisher and desperately trying to enter the window where
Delimar was supposed to have been, only to be repelled by the intense
flames.

"Somebody could have got hurt trying to save someone who wasn't in
there," Rosario said. "The way she hurt those people, she should be
put away in a crazy house."


And that is the absolute most clear piece of the report. Someone that
was obviously mentally unbalanced, at least at the moment, if not
more, stole a child.

Now, to return the child, the state wants to insure there won't be
further hurt to a child that is now, this instant and for probably
years to come, going to mourn the loss of her "mother" that nurtured
her (whether we like that "mommy" or not).

She will likely lose the relatives of that surrogate mom who also were
to her "familiy."

A decently trained and experiences social worker will have his or her
work cut out for him or her. The child needs to be able to make some
sense of it all...and a cold shower won't do that, Greegor.

And a loving mother will want to have help in dealing with very likely
fall out from the child. Children suffering from loss can be very
difficult to parent, reactive, resistant, angry, sad, all kinds of
behaviors and feelings can come up for her.

And she will be with a stranger. To her. And it will be hard.

You'd just give her a cold shower and teach her to do dog tricks, and
apply a spanking or two when she misbehaved. That should make it all
alright.

Kane
  #2  
Old March 4th 04, 10:18 AM
Vixen
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Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

Kane I find it very interesting all the consideration being given here
to how traumatised the child will be having lost the only mother she
has ever known to be placed with strangers, and how much work the
State will have to put into making that experience bearable.....pity
the same sort of consideration isn't given to children removed from
birth parents on UNSUBSTANTIATED SUSPICION of abuse and placed with
complete strangers......
  #3  
Old March 4th 04, 04:24 PM
Kane
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Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

On 4 Mar 2004 01:18:17 -0800, (Vixen) wrote:

Kane I find it very interesting all the consideration being given

here
to how traumatised the child will be having lost the only mother she
has ever known to be placed with strangers, and how much work the
State will have to put into making that experience bearable.....


Interesting in what way?

pity
the same sort of consideration isn't given to children removed from
birth parents


And your assumption it isn't is based on what?

Foster parents are taught to support the child through their grief and
loss.

CPS is quite aware that there is trauma. In fact one of the functions
of therapists engaged by the state for the children is to help them
with that trauma.

on UNSUBSTANTIATED SUSPICION of abuse and placed with
complete strangers......


Please explain on what grounds you believe suspicions are
unsubstantiated before the investigation.

Would you prefer the child be left with the aledged perps during the
investigation?

Sounds plausible until one considers the reason they aren't.

The same reason that rape victims aren't asked to live with their
aledged assailants during an investigation.

I find it very interesting that some yahoos in this ng celebrate and
encourage cutting of funding to CPS that will invariably effect
support programs for children first, support programs for parents
next, and leave nothing functioning but the enforcement
portion...something that is NOT going to be cut back on until
everything else is drained dry.

You folks haven't the least idea of how stupid you are and the harmful
outcomes you ignore....and still blame CPS for when it is public
apathy and the reality of economy of resources that YOU are pushing
against, that is the major cause of the pain and loss.

You folks are wallowing. But that's not unusual.

Kane
  #4  
Old March 4th 04, 10:15 PM
Vixen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

(Kane) wrote in message . com...
On 4 Mar 2004 01:18:17 -0800,
(Vixen) wrote:

Kane I find it very interesting all the consideration being given

here
to how traumatised the child will be having lost the only mother she
has ever known to be placed with strangers, and how much work the
State will have to put into making that experience bearable.....


Interesting in what way?

pity
the same sort of consideration isn't given to children removed from
birth parents


And your assumption it isn't is based on what?

Foster parents are taught to support the child through their grief and
loss.

CPS is quite aware that there is trauma. In fact one of the functions
of therapists engaged by the state for the children is to help them
with that trauma.

on UNSUBSTANTIATED SUSPICION of abuse and placed with
complete strangers......


Please explain on what grounds you believe suspicions are
unsubstantiated before the investigation.

Would you prefer the child be left with the aledged perps during the
investigation?

Sounds plausible until one considers the reason they aren't.

The same reason that rape victims aren't asked to live with their
aledged assailants during an investigation.

I find it very interesting that some yahoos in this ng celebrate and
encourage cutting of funding to CPS that will invariably effect
support programs for children first, support programs for parents
next, and leave nothing functioning but the enforcement
portion...something that is NOT going to be cut back on until
everything else is drained dry.

You folks haven't the least idea of how stupid you are and the harmful
outcomes you ignore....and still blame CPS for when it is public
apathy and the reality of economy of resources that YOU are pushing
against, that is the major cause of the pain and loss.

You folks are wallowing. But that's not unusual.

Kane


Oh **** off you total moron - if you were in the Uk at the moment
you'd know just how parents are being abused alongside their children
- no due process, total corruption you wouldn't believe it. Try
walking a mile in another mans shoes before you try and take the moral
highground.
  #5  
Old March 5th 04, 01:00 AM
Greg Hanson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

Kane, you have still not cited a LEGAL reason
why the state is delaying reunification.

What gives them jurisdiction?

They are just rubbing salt in a wound
to delay this reunification.

Joining in on the kidnapping
will be GREAT for their PR.

Proves that CPS meddles with innocent
families where there was NO ABUSE.
  #6  
Old March 5th 04, 01:21 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

On 4 Mar 2004 13:15:23 -0800, (Vixen) wrote:

(Kane) wrote in message . com...
On 4 Mar 2004 01:18:17 -0800,
(Vixen) wrote:

Kane I find it very interesting all the consideration being given

here
to how traumatised the child will be having lost the only mother

she
has ever known to be placed with strangers, and how much work the
State will have to put into making that experience bearable.....


Interesting in what way?

pity
the same sort of consideration isn't given to children removed

from
birth parents


And your assumption it isn't is based on what?

Foster parents are taught to support the child through their grief

and
loss.

CPS is quite aware that there is trauma. In fact one of the

functions
of therapists engaged by the state for the children is to help them
with that trauma.

on UNSUBSTANTIATED SUSPICION of abuse and placed with
complete strangers......


Please explain on what grounds you believe suspicions are
unsubstantiated before the investigation.

Would you prefer the child be left with the aledged perps during

the
investigation?

Sounds plausible until one considers the reason they aren't.

The same reason that rape victims aren't asked to live with their
aledged assailants during an investigation.

I find it very interesting that some yahoos in this ng celebrate

and
encourage cutting of funding to CPS that will invariably effect
support programs for children first, support programs for parents
next, and leave nothing functioning but the enforcement
portion...something that is NOT going to be cut back on until
everything else is drained dry.

You folks haven't the least idea of how stupid you are and the

harmful
outcomes you ignore....and still blame CPS for when it is public
apathy and the reality of economy of resources that YOU are pushing
against, that is the major cause of the pain and loss.

You folks are wallowing. But that's not unusual.

Kane


Oh **** off you total moron - if you were in the Uk at the moment
you'd know just how parents are being abused alongside their children
- no due process, total corruption you wouldn't believe it. Try
walking a mile in another mans shoes before you try and take the

moral
highground.


I see. I'm to **** off and I'm a total moron because I don't know what
goes on in the UK that you claim but don't substantiate.

Was the article you jumped in on about the UK?

Or was it about the US?

And if you are ****ed at the UK as you pen something to me about how
badly you think foster children are served why not stick to what you
know.

Now let's check out who's the moron here and who simply wanted to
spout so set a convenient trap by not clarifying the circumstances,
shall we?

I think it's you.

Should you **** off?

Well, unless you want to play at debate squarely then I think you
should.

What do you think?

Tah,

Kane
  #7  
Old March 5th 04, 01:45 AM
Kane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

On 04 Mar 2004 21:10:06 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

There are SERIOUS QUESTIONS about the performance of both the Fire

and Police
Departments.


Got to blame someone or you don't have a reason for being.

You see, the fire was ARSON.


Well, that was the consensus.


Not detected. No corpse of the 10 day old baby was recovered.


Arson wasn't detected? 10 day old babies are tiny. The have virtually
no hard tissue. Their bones are barely more than cartilege. For a 10
day old baby to be totally consumed in an intense fire isn't a bit
surprising.

Talk to a fireman.

Bio Mom will sue the city and Win.


You are hoping, of course. As long as it's taxpayers money that's
okay.

In this case, however, I can see where the 6 yr old might need some
interventions, due to the horrible nature of the crime perpetuated

against her
and her family.


No, that's not the reason she would need interventions. She would need
them because she is going into the shock faze of greaving a loss, and
soon will move on, as she must, to the next fazes. Some of which can
easily be misunderstood as misbehavior, rather like you whore friend
chose to maintain his ignorance and mistake a child's loss of her
mother, her room, her privacy as willful "wetting herself."

So basically he punished her for greaving.

However, I would hope that the 6 yr old girl could be placed by DYFS

with kin
for the time that it will take to re-introduce her to her mother and

dad.

Of course you would, and of course risk the chance kin might be
dangerous themselves....or do you think CPS should take the time to
properly vet kin first? And do you have a reasonable estimate of how
much time that would take, given that caseworkers are not allowed to
just dump one case and jump to another unless there is immediate risk
to the child?

I can tell you that crime bg checks can run up to 2 or 3 weeks, or a
little as 48 hours, and CPS doesn't control that time span...being as
they don't DO crim checks. LE agencies do.

Serious lapses on the part of the Fire Marshal (since retired). Mom

and family
will win a nice judgement against the city.


Why is it you salivate and flap your tongue like a thirsty vampire
over these cases? All that happens is that the taxpayers pay the bill.

It doesn't make agencies do what they cannot do. They cannot be
perfect.

Well, we can be sure though, that the imperfection of human kind will
afford you the chance to continue to think you are actually doing
something useful when you continually point out that imperfection and
pretend its only certain vicious agencies and special kinds of people
that do such things.

I have to admit, I too believe certain kinds of people do terrible
things that I consider vicious. Your kind.

You are one.

Kane
  #8  
Old March 5th 04, 04:30 AM
R. Steve Walz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

Vixen wrote:

(Kane) wrote in message . com...
On 4 Mar 2004 01:18:17 -0800,
(Vixen) wrote:

Kane I find it very interesting all the consideration being given

here
to how traumatised the child will be having lost the only mother she
has ever known to be placed with strangers, and how much work the
State will have to put into making that experience bearable.....


Interesting in what way?

pity
the same sort of consideration isn't given to children removed from
birth parents


And your assumption it isn't is based on what?

Foster parents are taught to support the child through their grief and
loss.

CPS is quite aware that there is trauma. In fact one of the functions
of therapists engaged by the state for the children is to help them
with that trauma.

on UNSUBSTANTIATED SUSPICION of abuse and placed with
complete strangers......


Please explain on what grounds you believe suspicions are
unsubstantiated before the investigation.

Would you prefer the child be left with the aledged perps during the
investigation?

Sounds plausible until one considers the reason they aren't.

The same reason that rape victims aren't asked to live with their
aledged assailants during an investigation.

I find it very interesting that some yahoos in this ng celebrate and
encourage cutting of funding to CPS that will invariably effect
support programs for children first, support programs for parents
next, and leave nothing functioning but the enforcement
portion...something that is NOT going to be cut back on until
everything else is drained dry.

You folks haven't the least idea of how stupid you are and the harmful
outcomes you ignore....and still blame CPS for when it is public
apathy and the reality of economy of resources that YOU are pushing
against, that is the major cause of the pain and loss.

You folks are wallowing. But that's not unusual.

Kane


Oh **** off you total moron - if you were in the Uk at the moment
you'd know just how parents are being abused

-------------
Those are the child-abusers.


alongside their children

--------------
Clearly because they are being deprived of their abusers' abuse
in YOUR mind!
Steve
  #9  
Old March 5th 04, 10:36 AM
Greg Hanson
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Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?

Fern, What kin would be better than her own mother?
Why is an aunt a better caretaker through the
child's adjustment than the actual mother?

Intervene against what? Innocence?

What would be harmful about this child
immediately being with her mother or father?

The parents did nothing wrong and have to
prove absolutely nothing to anybody.
  #10  
Old March 5th 04, 12:27 PM
Dan Sullivan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10 day old stolen 6 years ago - WHY does the state have jurisdiction?


"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Fern, What kin would be better than her own mother?
Why is an aunt a better caretaker through the
child's adjustment than the actual mother?

Intervene against what? Innocence?

What would be harmful about this child
immediately being with her mother or father?

The parents did nothing wrong and have to
prove absolutely nothing to anybody.


If you've been following what's been happening with this little girl AND her
mother you wouldn't be demontrating how ignorant you really are, Greg.

Turn off the cartoon channel.


 




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