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  #1  
Old March 31st 04, 02:10 AM
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_health_sleep

This is sad. Really, really sad. I'd vent but I'm tired.
  #2  
Old March 31st 04, 02:58 AM
Marie
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On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:10:17 -0600, wrote:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_health_sleep
This is sad. Really, really sad. I'd vent but I'm tired.


There is no reason for kids to be having caffiene everyday!! My cousin
brags about her 14 month old loving tea and I'm thinking, "That's not
something I'd *brag* about!" (she also loves the tv and watches it all
the time)
Marie
  #3  
Old March 31st 04, 07:02 PM
zeldabee
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was all, like:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_health_sleep

This is sad. Really, really sad. I'd vent but I'm tired.


Indeed. I'll vent for you...This is something about which I've been
preoccupied lately--I worry more and more that Sprogly is getting too little
sleep for a not-yet-7-month-old. The problem is that I'm working full-time,
we have a long commute, and Sprogly doesn't nap well at daycare.

We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when I get
home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night. Evenings are
rough, because he really, really wants to go to bed, but won't go down to
sleep without me. My schedule is brutal for me, and I'm scraped about as
thin as I could be, but I worry more about how it's affecting his
development.

I'm racking my brains trying to figure out how to change the situation, and
the only thing I can come up with is that I have to make a major life
change...like, quit my job and freelance or start my own business. But
that's scary, because I've got a good job with benefits, and a stable
child-care situation with which I'm happy. My son's father contributes very
little, so for all intents and purposes, I'm the sole breadwinner.

It's hard to see a way out without making a huge and risky change...but I'm
seriously considering moving to the west coast so I'll at least have some
family around to lend support.


  #4  
Old March 31st 04, 09:11 PM
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zeldabee wrote:

Indeed. I'll vent for you...This is something about which I've been
preoccupied lately--I worry more and more that Sprogly is getting too little
sleep for a not-yet-7-month-old. The problem is that I'm working full-time,
we have a long commute, and Sprogly doesn't nap well at daycare.


That's understandable about the daycare. So much stimulation there
that it's hard for them to unwind. My best friend takes his 5
month old home and he falls asleep the 2nd the care door opens
up and the area is quite.

We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when I get
home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night. Evenings are


Do you work 7 days a week?

Our son didn't sleep well at all between 4-8 months and it took us
a lot of reading to figure out a plan for us. Most important steps
we took we

-establish a good night time routine
-learn to put him down partially awake and fall asleep on
his own

If a family bed isn't working out for you (it sounds like it isn't)
then give it up. Really, it didn't work for us but it does work for
other people. I know my sister has had a lot of success with it.

I'd some research into helping your child learn to sleep better. Do some
google searches on the misc.kids.* newsgroups and you'll have a starting
point.

What fixed some problems for us:

- he doesn't like open spaces, we use an Amby Baby sleeper
(http://www.ambybaby.com)
- he has reflux, we give him prevacid

The big winner is being able to put them down and have them fall asleep
somewhat awake. This is hard to do and you may endure some crying
but once they learn it's ok to fall asleep on their own everything
improves.

I know it's bleak. Our son is sleeping better now and he's nearly a
year old than he was at 6 months. He's taking 45-120minute naps
twice a day and sleeping about 10-13hrs a night. It all varies
and he still doesn't sleep thru the night but we don't really care
too much about that.

Good luck. Just don't give up and do a lot of reading. You will
find something that works for you.

  #5  
Old March 31st 04, 10:13 PM
zeldabee
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was all, like:
zeldabee wrote:

Indeed. I'll vent for you...This is something about which I've been
preoccupied lately--I worry more and more that Sprogly is getting
too little sleep for a not-yet-7-month-old. The problem is that I'm
working full-time, we have a long commute, and Sprogly doesn't nap
well at daycare.


That's understandable about the daycare. So much stimulation there
that it's hard for them to unwind. My best friend takes his 5
month old home and he falls asleep the 2nd the care door opens
up and the area is quite.


When Sprogly was less mobile, Daycare Lady used to put him down in her
bedroom, and he'd sleep for 3-4 hours, but that won't work now. He won't
sleep in a crib or playard.

We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when
I get home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night.
Evenings are


Do you work 7 days a week?


No. He naps pretty well on the weekends, and sleeps much later in the
morning. On weekdays I've got to get him up at 6:30 to get him ready to go.
It's as you said, as far as napping at daycare--too much stimulation.

Our son didn't sleep well at all between 4-8 months and it took us
a lot of reading to figure out a plan for us. Most important steps
we took we

-establish a good night time routine
-learn to put him down partially awake and fall asleep on
his own


He sleeps well. It's just a question of there not being enough hours in the
day, once I factor in commuting. It takes maybe 25 minutes max for him to
get to sleep once we go to bed, and then he nurses a few times at night, but
doesn't fully wake up to do so. The only time he's been wakeful at night was
when he had a cold. As I said, on the weekends, he sleeps several hours
longer in the mornings, and I believe he'd sleep a full 12 hours at night
every night if I could only let him.

I do think I should work on getting him to sleep on his own (he will sleep
by himself on weekends for naps, but not at night), but my day is too long
to give him the uninterrupted sleep he needs no matter how I slice it.

If a family bed isn't working out for you (it sounds like it isn't)
then give it up. Really, it didn't work for us but it does work for
other people. I know my sister has had a lot of success with it.


I think it's working *very* well, actually. I think it would be worse for
him if he were in a crib.

snip suggestions

Good luck. Just don't give up and do a lot of reading. You will
find something that works for you.


Alas, I think it's going to involve more than reading. The whole structure
of my life right now doesn't allow him to sleep as much as he should. I
can't afford to live closer to work. It's unlikely that I could find an
equivalent job closer to home. I can't afford a nanny or babysitter to stay
home with him.

I'm thinking along the lines of trying to get typesetting/book formatting
jobs that I can do at home (the big question being whether I can get enough
work to pay the bills that way), and hire a babysitter part time, draft
Bloke as babysitter part time...but that's tossing away the bird in hand,
IYSWIM, and I don't have much margin for error. I'm also thinking I may have
to move someplace where the cost of living is lower than it is here in NYC
(leaning toward Oregon, where I have family)...and it's hard to try to line
that up when I have so little spare time.

I'd just love to spend more time with Sprogly when he isn't rubbing his eyes
and whining. *sigh* I so enjoyed my recent vacation with him.


  #6  
Old April 1st 04, 01:39 AM
nina
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Default Sad


"zeldabee" wrote in message
...
was all, like:
zeldabee wrote:

Indeed. I'll vent for you...This is something about which I've been
preoccupied lately--I worry more and more that Sprogly is getting
too little sleep for a not-yet-7-month-old. The problem is that I'm
working full-time, we have a long commute, and Sprogly doesn't nap
well at daycare.


That's understandable about the daycare. So much stimulation there
that it's hard for them to unwind. My best friend takes his 5
month old home and he falls asleep the 2nd the care door opens
up and the area is quite.


When Sprogly was less mobile, Daycare Lady used to put him down in her
bedroom, and he'd sleep for 3-4 hours, but that won't work now. He won't
sleep in a crib or playard.

We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when
I get home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night.
Evenings are


Do you work 7 days a week?


No. He naps pretty well on the weekends, and sleeps much later in the
morning. On weekdays I've got to get him up at 6:30 to get him ready to

go.
It's as you said, as far as napping at daycare--too much stimulation.

Our son didn't sleep well at all between 4-8 months and it took us
a lot of reading to figure out a plan for us. Most important steps
we took we

-establish a good night time routine
-learn to put him down partially awake and fall asleep on
his own


He sleeps well. It's just a question of there not being enough hours in

the
day, once I factor in commuting. It takes maybe 25 minutes max for him to
get to sleep once we go to bed, and then he nurses a few times at night,

but
doesn't fully wake up to do so. The only time he's been wakeful at night

was
when he had a cold. As I said, on the weekends, he sleeps several hours
longer in the mornings, and I believe he'd sleep a full 12 hours at night
every night if I could only let him.

I do think I should work on getting him to sleep on his own (he will sleep
by himself on weekends for naps, but not at night), but my day is too long
to give him the uninterrupted sleep he needs no matter how I slice it.

If a family bed isn't working out for you (it sounds like it isn't)
then give it up. Really, it didn't work for us but it does work for
other people. I know my sister has had a lot of success with it.


I think it's working *very* well, actually. I think it would be worse for
him if he were in a crib.

snip suggestions

Good luck. Just don't give up and do a lot of reading. You will
find something that works for you.


Alas, I think it's going to involve more than reading. The whole structure
of my life right now doesn't allow him to sleep as much as he should. I
can't afford to live closer to work. It's unlikely that I could find an
equivalent job closer to home. I can't afford a nanny or babysitter to

stay
home with him.

I'm thinking along the lines of trying to get typesetting/book formatting
jobs that I can do at home (the big question being whether I can get

enough
work to pay the bills that way), and hire a babysitter part time, draft
Bloke as babysitter part time...but that's tossing away the bird in hand,
IYSWIM, and I don't have much margin for error. I'm also thinking I may

have
to move someplace where the cost of living is lower than it is here in NYC
(leaning toward Oregon, where I have family)...and it's hard to try to

line
that up when I have so little spare time.


Honestly, i think its probably time for a lifestyle change and a move to a
slower place and pace.
It gets harder as they get older and I really believe that for his sake you
probably need more familial support.
I dont mean that in a negative way. My sister was once working 3 part time
jobs and in school, her kids lived on the go.
they were always on the move. It was VERY hard on them. Sometimes, if you
can do so and survive, you just have to
pare backa s much as possible.
Good luck to you,. I really know how hard your situation is.


  #7  
Old April 1st 04, 03:54 AM
Nevermind
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"zeldabee" wrote in message .. .
was all, like:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_health_sleep

This is sad. Really, really sad. I'd vent but I'm tired.


I agree that it isn't good, but I'm not getting "really, really sad"
from it. What about it makes you feel so strongly? (I mean this
question; I'm not being at all flip.)

My own kids all just squeak into their recommended ranges. As far as
my 15-month-old, I really cannot blame myself or "the culture" for it.
She gets no caffeine (well, actually, she may get a bit from the
breastmilk but she shows no difference in sleep pattern on days when I
drink coffee after rather than during her morning feed), and I do make
a big effort, most days, to get her down for a decent nap. And bedtime
seems to be at the right time for her. What can I do if she wakes up
after only 90 minutes from a nap?

I suppose I should be putting my older kids (5 and 9) to bed 30 to 45
mins earlier, but they don't go to bed late due to TV or caffeine or
general neglect. It's usually a bedtime book that keeps them up. Not
that that's OK, but it isn't "sad" either, IMO. As for my own sleep
deprivation -- OK, that is sad. Gotta get more disciplined about my
own evening reading (addicted to newsgroups and political analysis on
the web).

[snip]
We're only actually at home for about 11 hours out of the day on the
weekdays, and though I get us ready for bed as quickly as I can when I get
home from work, he tends to get around 9.5 hours at night. Evenings are
rough, because he really, really wants to go to bed, but won't go down to
sleep without me. My schedule is brutal for me, and I'm scraped about as
thin as I could be, but I worry more about how it's affecting his
development.


Wow, I really feel for you. What on earth time do you guys get home?!

What would happen if you lay down with him when he's ready for bed,
with the intention of getting back up again after he's asleep? Would
you just fall into a deep sleep yourself? With my 2nd, for a while, I
was putting her to sleep by laying down with her but I needed to get
back up to work (I work from home, mostly evenings). I will admit that
it was torture. I was sleep-deprived myself, so I invariably dropped
into a deep sleep along with her (often before her), and I had to have
my DH wake me up, forcibly if necessary.

Eventually, I couldn't take those waking-back-ups, so I did get her to
go to sleep without me. I used to nurse her sitting up in a chair (so
I wouldn't fall too far asleep) for what seemed like ages, till she
was in a DEEP sleep, and then put her down and go work. Not exactly
fun, but not sheer torture, and it got her the sleep she needed.

Alternatively, maybe you could go down to sleep with him early but
then get up before him to get your stuff done?

I'm racking my brains trying to figure out how to change the situation, and
the only thing I can come up with is that I have to make a major life
change...like, quit my job and freelance or start my own business. But
that's scary, because I've got a good job with benefits, and a stable
child-care situation with which I'm happy. My son's father contributes very
little, so for all intents and purposes, I'm the sole breadwinner.


What is causing the crushingly full schedule? Are you expected to work
long hours at your job? Do you commute far?

Is it possible to make changes *at* your job? Could you work from home
a couple or a few days per week? This would be very helpful if
commuting time is part of your problem. Could you leave at a decent
hour but take work home to do after the baby's asleep? (I know lots of
people who do that -- not fun, and can be stressful, but allows the
kids a better schedule.)

How about the dad? Does he live nearby? If so, could he take over
either taking the baby in or picking him up from childcare?

Could anything be changed at daycare to help your baby get better
sleep there?

It's hard to see a way out without making a huge and risky change...but I'm
seriously considering moving to the west coast so I'll at least have some
family around to lend support.


Would they be a big help? If so, and if you could get a good job out
there, then that might be a great option. I can't imagine my life
without my mother -- and I've got a live-in husband! But what about
the baby's dad?
  #8  
Old April 1st 04, 10:01 PM
zeldabee
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Nevermind was all, like:
"zeldabee" wrote...
was all, like:


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_health_sleep
[...]

[snip]
[...] My schedule is brutal for me, and I'm scraped
about as
thin as I could be, but I worry more about how it's affecting his
development.


Wow, I really feel for you. What on earth time do you guys get home?!


About 7:30-8:00pm. To bed at 8:30-9:00, he's asleep about a half hour later.
I usually read for a little while myself before I sleep, with a little
nightlight--it's become part of our night-time ritual.

What would happen if you lay down with him when he's ready for bed,
with the intention of getting back up again after he's asleep? Would
you just fall into a deep sleep yourself?


I've tried, and I don't want to get back up, and he wakes up if I leave
anyway. Besides, he'd end up getting to sleep a half hour earlier, and I'd
still have to shower and eat...then, probably, have to get him *back* down
to sleep again. So I think it would be a hassle for not much if any gain.

[...]

Alternatively, maybe you could go down to sleep with him early but
then get up before him to get your stuff done?


This is basically what I do anyway--I get up at 5:15 am to pump, eat, make
lunch, wash bottles for daycare, do the catbox, etc. Get him up at 6:30 to
change him and dress him, then leave at 6:50. (As it is he sometimes wakes
when I get up.)

I'm racking my brains trying to figure out how to change the
situation, and
the only thing I can come up with is that I have to make a major life
change...like, quit my job and freelance or start my own business.
But
that's scary, because I've got a good job with benefits, and a stable
child-care situation with which I'm happy. My son's father
contributes very
little, so for all intents and purposes, I'm the sole breadwinner.


What is causing the crushingly full schedule? Are you expected to work
long hours at your job? Do you commute far?


I basically work 9-5, but I do pump, which adds maybe a half hour to my work
day right now, since I have to make up the time it takes to pump. Yes, the
commute is long-ish. That's what makes the biggest difference.

Is it possible to make changes *at* your job? Could you work from home
a couple or a few days per week? This would be very helpful if
commuting time is part of your problem. Could you leave at a decent
hour but take work home to do after the baby's asleep? (I know lots of
people who do that -- not fun, and can be stressful, but allows the
kids a better schedule.)


No, my job is service-oriented (graphics service bureau). I can't do any of
my job from home. My skill-set is such that I could do a similar type of
work at home, but I don't know whether I could make a living at it or not,
and I'd still have to make some arrangement for childcare.

How about the dad? Does he live nearby? If so, could he take over
either taking the baby in or picking him up from childcare?


Well...this is sort of an ongoing issue...he lives with me, but is just not
very helpful either financially or otherwise. He does pick up Sprogly from
daycare one day a week, which makes a big difference to *me*, but it's like
pulling teeth to get him to do it.

Could anything be changed at daycare to help your baby get better
sleep there?


I think if she could get him to sleep in the playpen, she could put him in
the bedroom, and maybe he'd be able to sleep more that way. But I'm under
the impression that she's tried this. She's had some success in getting him
to sleep in a stroller, pushing it toward a corner. I think sometimes she's
lucky and gets both toddlers and Sprogly to sleep all at the same time. But
obviously that can't be counted on, and my hat is off to her for managing to
do it at all.

It's hard to see a way out without making a huge and risky
change...but I'm
seriously considering moving to the west coast so I'll at least have
some
family around to lend support.


Would they be a big help? If so, and if you could get a good job out
there, then that might be a great option. I can't imagine my life
without my mother -- and I've got a live-in husband! But what about
the baby's dad?


They're all clamoring for me to move out, and I'd imagine they'd be some
help. More help than I have now, anyway. I doubt Bloke would move out there
if I did, but he might. I'm hesitant to move away from Sprogly's
father...but as it stands now, we're barely a couple, and he's a financial
liability.

That sounds really cold, and at the same time, I do get some help from him
in small ways (I'm talking 10 minutes at a time here and there), and if I
lived alone with Sprogly, I wouldn't even have that. I've known since I
discovered that I was pregnant with him, that I'd likely end up a single
mom, but the reality of that is a little scary.


  #9  
Old April 4th 04, 07:29 AM
Emily
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zeldabee wrote:

Well...this is sort of an ongoing issue...he lives with me, but is just not
very helpful either financially or otherwise. He does pick up Sprogly from
daycare one day a week, which makes a big difference to *me*, but it's like
pulling teeth to get him to do it.


Hi Zeldabee,

I don't know you well, so I hope you don't mind my jumping in
on this point (I guess it is usenet, afterall). What does Bloke
do all day? Can you put it to him as something that's valuable
for Sprogly, not a request from you? If he's not busy but still
unwilling to do pickup every day after understanding that it's
important for the baby, I wonder about his mental health...

--
Emily
mom to Toby 5/1/02
Scheherazade, stillborn at 20 weeks, 3/2/04
  #10  
Old April 5th 04, 01:50 AM
Nevermind
external usenet poster
 
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Default Sad

"zeldabee" wrote in message .. .
Nevermind was all, like:
"zeldabee" wrote...
was all, like:


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_health_sleep
[...]

[snip]
[...] My schedule is brutal for me, and I'm scraped
about as
thin as I could be, but I worry more about how it's affecting his
development.


Alternatively, maybe you could go down to sleep with him early but
then get up before him to get your stuff done?


This is basically what I do anyway--I get up at 5:15 am to pump, eat, make
lunch, wash bottles for daycare, do the catbox, etc. Get him up at 6:30 to
change him and dress him, then leave at 6:50. (As it is he sometimes wakes
when I get up.)

I'm racking my brains trying to figure out how to change the
situation, and
the only thing I can come up with is that I have to make a major life
change...like, quit my job and freelance or start my own business.
But
that's scary, because I've got a good job with benefits, and a stable
child-care situation with which I'm happy. My son's father
contributes very
little, so for all intents and purposes, I'm the sole breadwinner.


What is causing the crushingly full schedule? Are you expected to work
long hours at your job? Do you commute far?


I basically work 9-5, but I do pump, which adds maybe a half hour to my work
day right now, since I have to make up the time it takes to pump. Yes, the
commute is long-ish. That's what makes the biggest difference.

Is it possible to make changes *at* your job? Could you work from home
a couple or a few days per week? This would be very helpful if
commuting time is part of your problem. Could you leave at a decent
hour but take work home to do after the baby's asleep? (I know lots of
people who do that -- not fun, and can be stressful, but allows the
kids a better schedule.)


No, my job is service-oriented (graphics service bureau). I can't do any of
my job from home. My skill-set is such that I could do a similar type of
work at home, but I don't know whether I could make a living at it or not,
and I'd still have to make some arrangement for childcare.

How about the dad? Does he live nearby? If so, could he take over
either taking the baby in or picking him up from childcare?


Well...this is sort of an ongoing issue...he lives with me, but is just not
very helpful either financially or otherwise. He does pick up Sprogly from
daycare one day a week, which makes a big difference to *me*, but it's like
pulling teeth to get him to do it.


Pulling teeth? I say, *knock* 'em out! (metaphorically) Is Bloke a
scary guy? If not, then I cannot imagine letting him get away with not
being a major help. (And if he is a scary guy, you need to leave.)

You need major help, and the child's father is apparently available.
Does he give a **** that, in your opinion, the baby's development may
be compromised by your schedule? He can make the difference. What's he
doing during the day?! Is he available (and I do mean available, not
"interested in") to either drop the baby off or pick him up from
daycare? If so, have him do so. Maybe he could pick the baby up from
daycare and drive him around to get an hour's nap (if the baby'd sleep
in the car)? That would make his bedtime pretty OK, I think. He could
also drop the baby off, so the baby could sleep in. Or one of those
two?

They're all clamoring for me to move out, and I'd imagine they'd be some
help. More help than I have now, anyway. I doubt Bloke would move out there
if I did, but he might. I'm hesitant to move away from Sprogly's
father...but as it stands now, we're barely a couple, and he's a financial
liability.

That sounds really cold, and at the same time, I do get some help from him
in small ways (I'm talking 10 minutes at a time here and there), and if I
lived alone with Sprogly, I wouldn't even have that. I've known since I
discovered that I was pregnant with him, that I'd likely end up a single
mom, but the reality of that is a little scary.


You must be a far better women that I am. I would be a walking piece
of molten rage if my kid's father had to be cajoled into picking him
up from daycare once per week and could only help out in 10-minute
slots while I worked my ass off and pumped and did the catbox and etc
etc etc. Is there no way to light a fire under his ass?!
 




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