Homework over spring break (long)

"Scott" wrote in message
...

It reminds me of our friends who's son is in DD's grade,
but a different class. They fell waay behind in spelling
for some reason (the Dad of the Son says the teacher
isn't very organized) so for about two weeks, the son
had literally 1 hour of spelling homework EVERY
night! Dad finally went in and talked to the teacher.
All that spelling homework was interrupting the son's
reading time. Anyway, I'm wondering if your daughter's
teacher fell behind and was using the Break time to
catch up. Which would be most unfair.

This wasn't true for the report...but we are running into it now. Over
these last few days, including the weekend, our daughter was swamped
with somewhere in the realm of 30 to 38 pages of worksheets requiring
her to do math-related stuff, draw it out visually, then write it out in
story form. She was still finishing up her country report during part of
that time. Our daughter's teacher has had some unfortunate circumstances
this year and has been out quite a bit, and the substitute wasn't giving
anywhere near the amount of homework we'd grown to expect (she'd go
several days without giving out any homework). I'm guessing, as you had
suggested, that the teacher had fallen behind in teaching the
curriculum -- especially given that there were problems on the
worksheets that involved subtracting negative numbers, and my daughter
told me that the class hadn't covered negative numbers yet.

So after yet another hard weekend, last night at 7:15, we told The Kid
that she'd done plenty, that there was a lot of work there, and that she
should be proud of the amount she finished -- even though she had not
fully completed all the worksheets. This time, I didn't include a note,
I just sent The Kid in with what she had (she'd done a lot, by the way).

I feel bad about this. I'd like to be able to support the teacher fully,
and I have done so in the past (even when I didn't agree with her). But
I don't like pushing my daughter to spend an hour or more on homework a
night, or hours over a weekend -- or hours over the spring break. I
personally don't think that the homework amount given out right now is
reasonable. Oh, and on top of this weekend's work, The Kid is supposed
to turn in her project associated with her country report on Wednesday.
There was so much math homework this weekend -- plus The Kid had to
practice the choir songs with two little girls to help them prepare for
a high-profile concert --that working on the project wasn't possible.
Monday is Girl Scouts, and Tuesday is a school choir concert. I don't
consider either of these unreasonable for my daughter to attend. So we
either help The Kid throw something together of little merit in the
little time she has (what does *that* teach our daughter?) or not even
try to get the project in on time and accept whatever consequences there
are (and what does *that* teach her?). I know we could continue to try
to negotiate with the teacher (though right now neither my husband nor I
has much time during the day to talk with her) -- but, again, what does
*that* teach my daughter, other than school deadlines and requirements
aren't fixed in concrete...even when they are presented that way?

beeswing

"Richard" wrote in message
...

I am stunned by this. How can any amount of library, internet, video,
textual,
or even interpersonal research come close to physically being present
in the
country of study. A competent, secure teacher would have asked "The
Kid" to
share her description of what she saw, and what she thought about what
she saw,
with the class en lieu of a formal, written report. Let her spend her
vacation
time thinking about the lives of those she is seeing around her. Let
her spend
her vacation time wondering about the lives of children her own age
who, by
accident of fate, happen to have been born in Mexico. Let her spend
her
vacation time considering the lives of children her age in Mayan or
Aztec
times. Let her share that with the class in any form she chooses, and
evalute
her based on how well she succeeds.

Your daughter's teacher has demonstrated quite vividly the difference
between
schooling and education.

Coat of arms and national bird, indeed!

I quite agree with you. It *is* just a little too ironic, isn't it? The
Kid saw *less* of Mexico than she would otherwise because she was in her
hotel room struggling with a multipage worksheet *on Mexico.* Doesn't
seem quite right to me, either.

On the other hand, it must be hard for teachers to remember and juggle
the individual situations and requirements of every kid in her class. My
husband suggested to the teacher after the fact that we should have
requested an alternative assignment for The Kid, given the situation.
The teacher said that had occurred to her, as well. Unfortunately,
neither of the two people it occurred to ever got in contact with the
other.

beeswing

*"Beeswing" wrote in message
...
This wasn't true for the report...but we are running into it now. Over
these last few days, including the weekend, our daughter was swamped
with somewhere in the realm of 30 to 38 pages of worksheets requiring
her to do math-related stuff, draw it out visually, then write it out in
story form. She was still finishing up her country report during part of
that time. Our daughter's teacher has had some unfortunate circumstances
this year and has been out quite a bit, and the substitute wasn't giving
anywhere near the amount of homework we'd grown to expect (she'd go
several days without giving out any homework). I'm guessing, as you had
suggested, that the teacher had fallen behind in teaching the
curriculum -- especially given that there were problems on the
worksheets that involved subtracting negative numbers, and my daughter
told me that the class hadn't covered negative numbers yet.

So after yet another hard weekend, last night at 7:15, we told The Kid
that she'd done plenty, that there was a lot of work there, and that she
should be proud of the amount she finished -- even though she had not
fully completed all the worksheets. This time, I didn't include a note,
I just sent The Kid in with what she had (she'd done a lot, by the way).

I feel bad about this. I'd like to be able to support the teacher fully,
and I have done so in the past (even when I didn't agree with her). But
I don't like pushing my daughter to spend an hour or more on homework a
night, or hours over a weekend -- or hours over the spring break. I
personally don't think that the homework amount given out right now is
reasonable. Oh, and on top of this weekend's work, The Kid is supposed
to turn in her project associated with her country report on Wednesday.
There was so much math homework this weekend -- plus The Kid had to
practice the choir songs with two little girls to help them prepare for
a high-profile concert --that working on the project wasn't possible.
Monday is Girl Scouts, and Tuesday is a school choir concert. I don't
consider either of these unreasonable for my daughter to attend. So we
either help The Kid throw something together of little merit in the
little time she has (what does *that* teach our daughter?) or not even
try to get the project in on time and accept whatever consequences there
are (and what does *that* teach her?). I know we could continue to try
to negotiate with the teacher (though right now neither my husband nor I
has much time during the day to talk with her) -- but, again, what does
*that* teach my daughter, other than school deadlines and requirements
aren't fixed in concrete...even when they are presented that way?


If* I understand this correctly, the children in this teacher's classroom
are having to do extra homework now because the teacher either did not
provide complete lesson plans to the substitute teacher[s] or the subs did
not follow them. This is not and should not be either your child's problem
or yours and neither you nor your child should find yourselves wondering
what other things in life should be dispensed with because of poor
teaching/administration at school. I think a discussion with the teacher
about the unfairness of the *whole* picture may well be in order,
particularly since nearly ever school I've ever heard of [and clubs like 4-H
and Girl Scouts] accelerate activities during the last month or two of
school. First the teacher assigned a major project over a vacation and now
is giving excessive amounts of homework due to her own illness/absence from
school? If the teacher cannot/does not relent or you are uncomfortable with
discussing this with her, maybe a polite conversation with the principal.
This is just, *imo*, wrong.

But, if I mis-understand you, please disregard my comments as off in left
field and try again to help me get the picture a bit better. ;-)

-Aula
--
see my creative works on ebay under http://snurl.com/369o
and on zazzle at http://snurl.com/38oh

Aula wrote:

If* I understand this correctly, the children in this teacher's classroom
are having to do extra homework now because the teacher either did not
provide complete lesson plans to the substitute teacher[s] or the subs did
not follow them. This is not and should not be either your child's problem
or yours and neither you nor your child should find yourselves wondering
what other things in life should be dispensed with because of poor
teaching/administration at school. I think a discussion with the teacher
about the unfairness of the *whole* picture may well be in order,
particularly since nearly ever school I've ever heard of [and clubs like 4-H
and Girl Scouts] accelerate activities during the last month or two of
school. First the teacher assigned a major project over a vacation and now
is giving excessive amounts of homework due to her own illness/absence from
school? If the teacher cannot/does not relent or you are uncomfortable with
discussing this with her, maybe a polite conversation with the principal.
This is just, *imo*, wrong.

But, if I mis-understand you, please disregard my comments as off in left
field and try again to help me get the picture a bit better. ;-)

The teacher gave additional homework tonight, even though The Kid's country
project is still due tomorrow. My husband had talked to the teacher yesterday
about the amount of homework she'd given out over the weekend and how it made
it hard to work on the project, and she appeared to acknowledge the
problem...but still gave out even more out homework tonight (not a lot, but
it's the cumulative effect of it, at this point). The Kid completed tonight's
homework tonight (despite having a school choir concert) and plans to finish
her project in the morning. Her class is completing last weekend's math
homework during the day at school.

I don't like it. But The Kid seems to want to complete the stuff (she's a
really hard worker), and my husband doesn't want to complain as long as The Kid
is willing to get the homework done. Without my kid or my husband backing me,
at this point I'm not going to follow up on it with the teacher. We'll see what
happens next.

Thanks so much for responding. It helps me to feel like I'm *not* being
unreasonable in seeing the situation itself as unreasonable...if that makes any
sense.

beeswing

"beeswing" wrote in message
...
Thanks so much for responding. It helps me to feel like I'm *not* being
unreasonable in seeing the situation itself as unreasonable...if that
makes any
sense.


I hear you on needing to be a united front in a situation like this. I hope
things work out well for your short person, whatever the final result is.

-Aula
--
see my creative works on ebay under http://snurl.com/369o
and on zazzle at http://snurl.com/38oh

In article ,
says...
My husband caught our daughter's teacher on the phone this morning just as The
Kid was about to hand her my note. Apparently the teacher had had no
expectation of The Kid turning her report on time, given the fact that we were
going to be out of the country, but she'd never said as much. I don't know
whether to be relieved or angry. While it was good for our daughter to have the
push to get the work done reasonably promptly, the stress the false deadline
had on all of us really wasn't necessary.

And I want my vacation back.

beeswing

beeswing




Well, if I were the teacher and you expressed anger to me at that point,
I'd feel like telling you that it was my assumption that any rational
adult would not cancel or significantly hinder international vacation
plans over a third grade assignment regardless of the understanding of
the assignment deadline. Seems a fair assumption to me, if you don't
mind my saying so...=)

AEM

In article ,
says...

snip material about homework assigned over spring break

You, your daughter, and your husband need to relax...=) It is third
grade! Do you care now about anything in third grade that you didn't
complete perfectly or at least as well as you would have liked? Does
anyone else?

Honestly, if I were you, when my daughter told me she had a report to do
over spring break when we had a family vacation planned, I'll tell her
not ot worry about it and to leave it at home. I don't want to try to
tell you how to raise your children, of course, but I really feel that
it was a bad idea to have her working on that project on your trip.
Spring break is supposed to be a break, as you said. If a third grade
teacher doesn't get that, take an F on the assignment--who cares? And
if your daughter is so bent out of shape about the bad grade, I think
you need to explain to her that no one can do everything they want and
need to do all the time. Sometimes we have to prioritize. Clearly, a
family vacation to Mexico is significantly more important that some
silly third grade busy work. Therefore, the priority is on the trip and
the assignment takes a major backseat. Upon returning you contact the
teacher to explain why your kid's assignment isn't complete. And I'd
also voice my irritation at the homework being assigned for the break in
the first place. I'd make it abundantly clear to her that I instructed
my daughter not to do the assignment because our vacation took priority.
You want to maintain good parent teacher relations, of course, but that
doesn't mean you bow to the fiats of a third grade teacher.

And before you worry, I think it is perfectly fine for a child to learn
to be responsibly and reasonably critical of authority. That is an
ability we all hope they have as adults. Start nurturing it now. Just
make sure they don't misconstrue your instruction to be an advocation
for their being unnecessarily and unreasonably difficult.

Noam Chomsky spoke of an observation a Latvian friend of his made about
coming to America that I think applies here. The Latvian gentleman said
he was stunned at the American school system when he came to America as
a child. He said in Latvia the emphasis was on the real quality and
value of your work. In America he said if you were two minutes late to
class they'd be ready to send you to the principal's office, but getting
a C or D on an assignment was considered to be not such a big deal. The
emphasis, he pointed out, was on simply following orders and had nothing
to do with the quality of the work or any original contribution by the
student. That sound familiar? Is it at all sane that there is even a
worry about a family trip to Mexico interfering with third grade busy
work? I find that ludicrous, and I think you should, too--and treat it
accordingly...;^)

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

AEM

In article ,
says...
Marjorie wrote:

"Iowacookiemom" wrote in message
...

I'll tell you honestly what I would do. I'd get on the Internet myself,
find pages that answer the questions left, and print them off, highlighting
the answers. Then I'd help her fill in the missing blanks before school
tomorrow morning.

This is EXACTLY what I would do, too. Why stress your kid out thinking she
didn't do enough, when she did way more than she SHOULD have, considering
she was in the country she's reporting on, and didn't get to have fun due to
a looming busywork assignment. I'd be furious myself.

Isn't that *so* ironic? My kid wasn't out learning about Mexico because she was
inside her hotel room gleaning through a 30-year-old book, trying to find the
answers she needed to fill out a worksheet. You hit the nail right on the head;
that's exactly what made me the maddest.

Well, that and the fact that we'd spent precious vacation time and a fair
amount of money to fly down to Mexico for a week, only to be stuck in our hotel
room egging on our daughter to do her homework...

Yeah, me too. I don't like when teachers spring surprises like that, and I
REALLY don't like that teachers don't respect vacation time. Some families
go places and do things that interfere with school assignments. There was no
opportunity given for optional work. I'd be in the teacher's face myself!

I suppose it's my fault as well, though. I probably should have seen this
coming and asked the teacher in advance. I still think vacation time should be
respected. Kids need a break as much as anyone else



It is your fault, but for different reasons than you cite, I think. You
mistakenly prioritized a third grade assignment of marginal significance
such that you treated it as being equally important to your trip. The
teacher should have respected the break, but you should have enough
respect for your own beliefs and autonomy to refuse to be pushed around
by a third grade teacher! You chose to stay in the hotel room doing
homework, and that was a poor choice, I think.

AEM

My husband caught our daughter's teacher on the phone this morning just as The
Kid was about to hand her my note. Apparently the teacher had had no
expectation of The Kid turning her report on time, given the fact that we were
going to be out of the country, but she'd never said as much. I don't know
whether to be relieved or angry. While it was good for our daughter to
have the
push to get the work done reasonably promptly, the stress the false deadline
had on all of us really wasn't necessary.

And I want my vacation back.

beeswing
A few things:

1) You should have spoken to your child's teacher before leaving on a
vacation to get assignments. By not doing so, you are teaching the child
that she can have unique treatment from the other children, and detracting
from the message that school is important.

2) You should consider taking your family vacations in the summer, between
school grades.

3) You could have informed the teacher of your vacation plans and suggested
that your daughter be given an assignment which would allow her to use the
travel as part of the assignment. While this is still asking the teacher to
treat your child differently from the others, at least it reinforces the
"school is important" message and also creates a situation where others
(possibly less fortunate) children in the class can benefit from this
special experience.

Laura

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In article ,
Laura Slesinger wrote:

2) You should consider taking your family vacations in the summer, between
school grades.

It's one thing to suggest that people not take their children out of
school to take vacations, but to suggest they not even take vacations
during school breaks is definately over the top.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care