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#21
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
"Roger Schlafly" wrote:
"Tsu Dho Nimh" wrote Yes. Plus delayed development, less sound sleep, less sleep for the moms, etc. The BS campaign was a bad idea. Can you show evidence of the supposed delays in development, and less sound sleep? Try this: The pattern of early motor development is affected by sleep position. (Stomach sleepers) attain several motor milestones earlier than (back sleepers). http://www.kids-md.com/Tipsheets/21_.../crawling.html It doesn't back up your argument that sleeping supine is bad for children: “ ... now about a third of babies skip the step of crawling and go right to walking,” says Dr. Dewling. “The babies in the study that skipped the crawling stage,” says Dr. Dewling, “all learned to walk at the same time as the babies who crawled" " The study’s conclusion? The pattern of early motor development is affected by sleep position. (Stomach sleepers) attain several motor milestones earlier than (back sleepers). However, all infants achieved all milestones within the accepted normal age range. Pediatricians can use this information to reassure parents. This difference in milestone attainment is not a reason to abandon the American Academy of Pediatrics’ (APA) sleep position recommendations.” So is they are all learning to walk, what's the problem? Tsu -- To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Jules Henri Poincaré |
#22
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
"JG" wrote in message t... "Elizabeth Reid" wrote in message om... "JG" wrote in message et... "Elizabeth Reid" wrote in message om... The risk of having a misshapen head that's severe enough to be noticed or need correction is also very small. ...It should be *ZERO*. The number of children dying of SIDS should be ZERO, too. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. How in the world could an otherwise competent parent let his/her child's head deformity get to the point that it's noticeable (and likely commented upon by family/friends) without at least questioning/investigating why and taking some common-sense measures (e.g., the suggestions mentioned in the article)? How do some parents let their kids get obese? We all wonder about those parents who, on summer days, "forgot" that their (sleeping?) kids were strapped in their car seats and, upon returning to their cars hours later, found them dead, or those parents who left young kids alone in a bathtub for "just a second" and then returned to find they'd drowned, or (my favorite) those parents who've run over their kids with a lawn mower. These are all "instantaneous" accidents (problems); they didn't develop gradually. (Of course, other negligent behavior also occurs over longer time periods; e.g., some parents are apparently oblivious to their kids' obesity or anorexia.) That is one thing that is not true about SIDS. It is not a problem that develops gradually. One minute you have a live kids sleeping, the next minute, you don't have a live kid. I guess you think a little head deformity is worse than a cold kid. Why do parents of kids whose heads have become misshapen due to their (parents') rigid adherence to the "Back to Sleep" rule view it as immutable? Are they just plain dumb, or are they afraid to question the advice-giver's (physician's) supposed expertise? Physicians have been sued for not giving their patients enough information--for not doing enough to "help" their patients (e.g., not explaining "well enough" the consequences of detrimental, avoidable behaviors); will a pediatrician now be sued for advice he/she HAS dispensed ("We recommend putting babies face-up; it's been shown to decrease the risk of SIDS") by the parent(s) of a kid with a deformed skull? (Don't laugh; who'd have thought, a decade ago, that people would actually file lawsuits against fast-food restaurants and food manufacturers for "making" them obese?) Part of the well child check is to look at every square inch of body, including the skull. It sounds as if you think that letting kids get a mishapen skull for short period of time is worse than about 1 kid in 1200 dying unnecessarily. Especially since, as the article you quoted points out, there are ways to avoid those problems without placing a child in the marginally riskier face-down position. Is it really all that tough to take the recommendations mentioned in the article, such as shifting the child's head and making sure she/he doesn't spend all waking hours on his/her back? Apparently it is, for some parents (up to 48%!), that "tough." If a parent takes a little care, both risks can be minimized. Problem(?) solved! The problem of misshapen heads, perhaps. NOT the problem of parents who are dolts, however... So which is better, 1 dead kid or 1200 kids who have slightly mishapen skulls for a period of time? "Doomsday," IMO, is already upon us (the US). You may or may not be right, but I can safely say that the conviction that civilization has finally and irretrievably gone to hell in a handbasket is about ten minutes older than civilization itself. Not civilization per se. Just the US. It'd be nice if common sense and skepticism were thicker on the ground, but I'd take some powerful convincing that things are demonstrably worse now than any other point in history. A topic that could be debated ad nauseam g. |
#23
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:59:43 -0400, "Jeff Utz"
wrote: "Roger Schlafly" wrote in message ... "Jeff Utz" wrote Gee, so whom should one believe for expert advice on the care of children? Not someone who thinks that deformed heads, poor sleep, and delayed development are all ok. When did anyone say that poor sleep, delayed development or deformed heads are ok? How about dead babies? Are they ok? Yes, Roger, tell us. Would you sacrifice 2,000 American babies a year to prevent this scourge of head deformity, sleep deprivation, and developmental delay we all should be seeing? PF |
#24
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:43:58 GMT, "Roger Schlafly"
wrote: "Tsu Dho Nimh" wrote Yes. Plus delayed development, less sound sleep, less sleep for the moms, etc. The BS campaign was a bad idea. Can you show evidence of the supposed delays in development, and less sound sleep? Try this: The pattern of early motor development is affected by sleep position. (Stomach sleepers) attain several motor milestones earlier than (back sleepers). http://www.kids-md.com/Tipsheets/21_.../crawling.html This is the same as citing, in defense of a position against seatbelts, a study that shows more people get wrinkles on their clothes if they wear seatbelts. PF |
#25
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
Brian Edmonds wrote:
"Roger Schlafly" writes: There are other drawbacks to putting babies on their backs. Nowadays, a lot of babies never even learn to crawl. I can certainly see how this would become very limiting later in life. It would be a serious problem for plumbers, electricians and IT staff ... they all spend a lot of time crawling under things doing installations. Tsu -- To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Jules Henri Poincaré |
#26
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
Ha, my baby started getting the flattened head and we were alarmed as son as
we noticed - at about 3 months. We got a positioner and put him on his side to sleep. I daresay most intelligent folks will figure it out - that is, if they are not overwhelmed by life (too many children, work, etc.) to notice L. P.S. I find the lot of you rather arrogant ans silly. I do not know a single "doctor" that has TIME TO WRITE silly accusations. " And yet again we revisit a common theme from you, JG. Either by arrogance or ignorance (or both?)" To what parents are you dispensing advice ? People in the grocery line in front of you ? This is a very strange group. "PF Riley" wrote in message ... On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:22:47 GMT, "JG" wrote: "PF Riley" wrote in message ... I'd say 48% sounds about right in my experience. What you fail to realize is that for most of them, the deformity resolves with time. Back to Sleep started in full force around 1994. Do you know many 9-year-olds with misshapen heads? I know a couple of teenagers with rather severe craniofacial abnormalities, but not because of supine sleeping. What I have difficulty understanding is why the parents of the 48% with misshapen heads either didn't notice the problem developing (!) or didn't take corrective action (e.g., the suggestions in the article) sooner... And yet again we revisit a common theme from you, JG. Either by arrogance or ignorance (or both?) you seem to way overestimate the average intelligence and common sense of the American public. As CBI has pointed out, your problem in this case is not with the AAP dispensing the advice, but with your perception that it shouldn't be necessary. I would say about half of the families to whom I point out the typical occipital flattening and even occasional rhomboidal deformity (unilateral occipital with contralateral frontal flattening) of positional plagiocephaly during the 4 month check-up genuinely had not noticed it themselves. How, then, would you expect these parents to have begun taking corrective action? PF |
#27
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
"CBI" wrote in message
... "JG" wrote in message t... "Elizabeth Reid" wrote in message om... ...It should be *ZERO*. How in the world could an otherwise competent parent ..... JG - the fallacy of your whinings is showing through. First you whine about the AAP treating parents like idiots. Then you whine that some of them are idiots. Maybe there is some connection? Perhaps the AAP is not being so unreasonable after all? Many parents ARE idiots (incompetent). I believe the number, and percent, of "idiot parents" is increasing. A few reasons are obvious: Many parents these days have (or had) less-than-ideal (and/or often absent) parents themselves ... A crappy (*overall*) public education system that turns out future parents (and some teenagers who are *already* parents!) who can't think (but who *think* they can think and who feel good about themselves!) ... A culture (read: media) that continues to endorse and encourage/promote self-centeredness--ME first, kid second ... Politicians (and bureaucrats), intent on keeping their jobs, giving (or trying to) all things to all people (even those who neither need nor want to partake of gubmnt's largesse!), and have thereby instilled a sense of both dependency and entitlement among much of the populace (why think for yourself when there's someone--some bureaucrat--all too ready and willing to do it for you?) ... A federal gubmnt that's made a habit of bailing out/subsidizing all sorts of entities, including other gubmnts (e.g., cities) and corporations (e.g., Amtrak) as well as individuals (e.g., farmers) who DO screw up ... In short, can you honestly deny that personal responsibility is a waning virtue? But I digress... As I've asserted before (previous threads), it's simply not possible to educate a lot of idiots (the "uneducable"), no matter how hard one might try. You can lead a horse (parent) to water... The AAP apparently believes *all* parents are idiots, and thus recommends pediatricians treat them as such (e.g., by asking MYOB questions such as whether there are any guns in the house). As far as head-flattening is concerned, if it's to the point where it's noticeable (i.e., of medical concern) you'll have a hard time convincing me that the parents themselves don't/haven't noticed it and taken some "common sense"--intuitive--measures (such as those recommended in the article) to alleviate/correct it. If a pediatrician wants to cover his/her ass (against "failure to warn" lawsuits), I'd suggest he/she simply put all his/her (i.e., the AAP's) "advice" in a "new parent" booklet that can be given to all new/expectant moms. Hand out an addendum regarding the importance of repositioning infants to avoid smushed heads, if you wish. |
#28
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
"CBI" wrote in message
... "JG" wrote in message ... [...] The AAP apparently believes *all* parents are idiots, and thus recommends pediatricians treat them as such. I've seen no examples of this. Read some of the AAP's "policy statements" (http://www.aap.org/policy/pprgtoc.cfm); those recommending that pediatricians "advise" or "counsel" parents *never* state "when appropriate" (or words to that effect), let alone "IF asked for guidance." I guess the AAP doesn't believe pediatricians should (are competent to?) discern which parents need what "advice." Do you get ****ed off when you see an exit sign and you already knew where the exits are? Of course not. Exit signs provide information (e.g., an exit number and/or a street/highway name); they don't advise/recommend (state) "get off here (to get to XXX)." Using lawn mowers (still my favorite example :-D), the exit sign is analagous to the piece of information, "lawn mower blades are sharp." I can do with any piece of information what I want, i.e., either ignore it or use it in some way. In the case of the mower blades (and being a rational individual g), I'll think, "Okay; I'll be careful when I am (or my child is) around lawn mower blades." In the case of the exit sign, I'll also either ignore it or use it (either to exit or to estimate how much farther it is to the exit I want). Now, when a pediatrician says, "Be careful with sharp lawn mower blades; Buffy and Biff could get hurt if they're nearby while you're mowing," he/she is dispensing more than information (that mower blades are sharp)--he/she is giving advice. If I wanted/needed advice about how to be "careful with sharp lawn mower blades," I'd *ask* (likely the lawn mower manufacturer; NOT a pediatician). Likewise, if I wanted/needed advice about exits (e.g., which ones to take to get to my destination), I'd ask (either someone at my destination, an "expert" in the vicinity [e.g., a gas station attendant], or a service [e.g., Mapquest] that provides advice/directions); the exit sign itself is not "advice," "guidance," or "counselling." Why do you think that some of those idiots don't own guns? Or do you think that nothing should be said to them? Say something to them IF they solicit your advice/opinion (though why they'd ask a pediatrician, rather than someone who sells devices [lockboxes, gun locks] intended to reduce accidental gun injuries/deaths, or even the police, is beyond me). While your concern for your patients' welfare is understandable, it's really NONE of your business whether there are guns in their homes. Do you ask if they have a bathtub and, if the answer is "yes," *automatically* (invariably) proceed to advise them on drowning prevention? You can't have it both ways. If you admit that there are some fools at them then there is nothing wrong with issuing advice to them. And just how, Chris, do you identify, with TOTAL accuracy, the "idiot parents"? Do you give prospective patients' parents a quiz? (Now how insulting would THAT be--how many prospective patients would you lose? ....Q1: Lawn mowers (A) have very sharp blades and my child could be injured if I'm not extremely careful when he/she is around one; (B) make a great substitute for my kid's go cart when it's not available or out of gas; (C) what's a lawn mower?...) Making assumptions about a parent's intelligence/level of "common sense" is risky, but the answer is certainly not to treat *every* parent condescendingly, as if he/she is an idiot in need of nannying. |
#29
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
"PF Riley" wrote in message
... On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:23:44 GMT, "JG" wrote: "CBI" wrote in message ... "JG" wrote in message ... The AAP apparently believes *all* parents are idiots, and thus recommends pediatricians treat them as such. I've seen no examples of this. Read some of the AAP's "policy statements" (http://www.aap.org/policy/pprgtoc.cfm); those recommending that pediatricians "advise" or "counsel" parents *never* state "when appropriate" (or words to that effect), let alone "IF asked for guidance." I guess the AAP doesn't believe pediatricians should (are competent to?) discern which parents need what "advice." Wrong. You failed to notice that every single Policy Statement ends with the following: "The recommendations in this statement do not indicate an exclusive course of treatment or serve as a standard of medical care. Variations, taking into account individual circumstances, may be appropriate." Thank you for pointing this out. I guess I've either (1) gagged or (2) had my eyes glaze over before reaching the end of one. I stand corrected. |
#30
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Infant flat skulls can be avoided: U.S. doctors
"JG" wrote in message .. . The AAP apparently believes *all* parents are idiots, and thus recommends pediatricians treat them as such. I've seen no examples of this. Read some of the AAP's "policy statements" (http://www.aap.org/policy/pprgtoc.cfm); those recommending that pediatricians "advise" or "counsel" parents *never* state "when appropriate" (or words to that effect), let alone "IF asked for guidance." I guess the AAP doesn't believe pediatricians should (are competent to?) discern which parents need what "advice." In general the AAP assumes that neither the parent nor the pediatrician are omnicient. Do you get ****ed off when you see an exit sign and you already knew where the exits are? Of course not. Exit signs provide information ...... I can do with any piece of information what I want, i.e., either ignore it or use it in some way....... ... Now, when a pediatrician says, "Be careful with sharp lawn mower blades; Buffy and Biff could get hurt if they're nearby while you're mowing," he/she is dispensing more than information (that mower blades are sharp)--he/she is giving advice. If I wanted/needed advice about how to be "careful with sharp lawn mower blades," I'd *ask* 1) I think you are splitting hairs between giving information and giving advice. It is nonsense to say that it would be OK to inform you of the hazzards of lawnmower use but not to admonish you to be cautious of them. 2) When you go to the doc you are, in effect, asking for his advice (like it or not). Why do you think that some of those idiots don't own guns? Or do you think that nothing should be said to them? Say something to them IF they solicit your advice/opinion But the idiot is the one least likely to do so. You are setting up a catch-22. (though why they'd ask a pediatrician, rather than someone who sells devices [lockboxes, gun locks] intended to reduce accidental gun injuries/deaths, or even the police, is beyond me). The pediatrician is an expert (or should be). The gun dealer is a saleman. The stated policies of the police largely agree with the AAP. While your concern for your patients' welfare is understandable, it's really NONE of your business whether there are guns in their homes. Concern for the wellfare of the patient is the business of the doctor. Whether there are guns in the house (and ths issues such as storage and supervision that stem from the question) affects that welfare. Do you ask if they have a bathtub and, if the answer is "yes," *automatically* (invariably) proceed to advise them on drowning prevention? I routinely discuss drowning prevention. Part of the discussion mentions short unsupervised periods and shallow water such as is found in bathtubs. You can't have it both ways. If you admit that there are some fools at them then there is nothing wrong with issuing advice to them. And just how, Chris, do you identify, with TOTAL accuracy, the "idiot parents"? You can't - that is my point. Making assumptions about a parent's intelligence/level of "common sense" is risky, but the answer is certainly not to treat *every* parent condescendingly, as if he/she is an idiot in need of nannying. Only an insecure person would feel that they are being treated like an idiot. -- CBI, MD |
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