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C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??



 
 
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  #261  
Old June 8th 06, 03:29 AM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Tracy" wrote in message
. ..
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Tracy" wrote in message
...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

It's called cover thy ass. Don't you think that ALL responsible
adults should act in their own best interests?

Yes, all responsible adults should do what is right for their own
interest. Unfortunately there are adults who don't see eye-to-eye in
what being responsible is, which is the real problem and why
governments have laws, etc. Then it is their own human thinking of
what is best for 'them' that could cause even the most responsible
people to do stupid things. Think about those who believe it is in
their best interest to lie about a subject which they feel is minor to
a person who sees it is a major issue. In the long run the lie causes
more problems than it is worth.

Agreed - but I was referring to things like EVERY adult taking
responsibility for their own birth control methods,....... and anyone
who has to make a payment for something doing it in a way that they have
legally recognized proof of the payment.

There's really no excuse for not covering your own ass, and then trying
to lay the blame for a negative outcome on someone else.


Like I heard from a couch recently, "you will fine excuses are just that
'excuses'." In my opinion an excuse is not justification or use of
reasoning when trying to not own up to responsibility. I've also been
told that it is controling behavior when those who attempt to make
someone feel guilty instead of being responsible for their personal
behavior.


Pretty much...... it's the bank's fault, it's the ex's fault, it's the
lawyer's fault, it's the judge's fault, it's CSE's fault.......

seems to be a recurring theme.


About five months ago it was suggested to me to read a book. The title was
"Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting." It is written by Lynn Grabhorn. I
purchased the book and read it as often as I could just to turn around and
share what I got out of the book with the person who suggested it. I found
the book to be revelent in everyone's lives as it speaks of the
possibilities when you think positively versus negatively. It talks about
blaiming and how blaiming only brings negative rather than positive outcome.
I suggest anyone who has an open mind, and heart, to read the book. There
is some dry humor in the book, but it has helped me to remain calm and not
let go of my positive thoughts (wants) even during the most undesirable
situations.

Tracy


  #262  
Old June 8th 06, 04:17 AM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??


"Tracy" wrote in

Pretty much...... it's the bank's fault, it's the ex's fault, it's the
lawyer's fault, it's the judge's fault, it's CSE's fault.......

seems to be a recurring theme.


About five months ago it was suggested to me to read a book. The title
was "Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting." It is written by Lynn Grabhorn. I
purchased the book and read it as often as I could just to turn around and
share what I got out of the book with the person who suggested it. I
found the book to be revelent in everyone's lives as it speaks of the
possibilities when you think positively versus negatively. It talks about
blaiming and how blaiming only brings negative rather than positive
outcome.


I guess woudl should all be too happy to take respocibility for our ****ups
and be glad to pay the $1200/mth that the government has set forth.

I guess we could have all sat back and waited for the Nazies to arrive at
our borders and let them dictate a way of life for us. What was that famous
American saying, "Give me Liberty or Give me Death"?


  #263  
Old June 8th 06, 10:31 AM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??


"Tracy" wrote in message
. ..
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Tracy" wrote in message
. ..
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Tracy" wrote in message
...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

It's called cover thy ass. Don't you think that ALL responsible
adults should act in their own best interests?

Yes, all responsible adults should do what is right for their own
interest. Unfortunately there are adults who don't see eye-to-eye in
what being responsible is, which is the real problem and why
governments have laws, etc. Then it is their own human thinking of
what is best for 'them' that could cause even the most responsible
people to do stupid things. Think about those who believe it is in
their best interest to lie about a subject which they feel is minor to
a person who sees it is a major issue. In the long run the lie causes
more problems than it is worth.

Agreed - but I was referring to things like EVERY adult taking
responsibility for their own birth control methods,....... and anyone
who has to make a payment for something doing it in a way that they
have legally recognized proof of the payment.

There's really no excuse for not covering your own ass, and then trying
to lay the blame for a negative outcome on someone else.

Like I heard from a couch recently, "you will fine excuses are just that
'excuses'." In my opinion an excuse is not justification or use of
reasoning when trying to not own up to responsibility. I've also been
told that it is controling behavior when those who attempt to make
someone feel guilty instead of being responsible for their personal
behavior.


Pretty much...... it's the bank's fault, it's the ex's fault, it's the
lawyer's fault, it's the judge's fault, it's CSE's fault.......

seems to be a recurring theme.


About five months ago it was suggested to me to read a book. The title
was "Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting." It is written by Lynn Grabhorn. I
purchased the book and read it as often as I could just to turn around and
share what I got out of the book with the person who suggested it. I
found the book to be revelent in everyone's lives as it speaks of the
possibilities when you think positively versus negatively. It talks about
blaiming and how blaiming only brings negative rather than positive
outcome. I suggest anyone who has an open mind, and heart, to read the
book. There is some dry humor in the book, but it has helped me to remain
calm and not let go of my positive thoughts (wants) even during the most
undesirable situations.


Thanks, Tracy - I'll have to check it out.



Tracy




  #264  
Old June 8th 06, 09:47 PM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??

"DB" wrote in message
om...

"Tracy" wrote in

Pretty much...... it's the bank's fault, it's the ex's fault, it's the
lawyer's fault, it's the judge's fault, it's CSE's fault.......

seems to be a recurring theme.


About five months ago it was suggested to me to read a book. The title
was "Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting." It is written by Lynn Grabhorn.
I purchased the book and read it as often as I could just to turn around
and share what I got out of the book with the person who suggested it. I
found the book to be revelent in everyone's lives as it speaks of the
possibilities when you think positively versus negatively. It talks
about blaiming and how blaiming only brings negative rather than positive
outcome.


Hello DB

I guess woudl should all be too happy to take respocibility for our
****ups and be glad to pay the $1200/mth that the government has set
forth.


I need you to clarify your statement above.

I guess we could have all sat back and waited for the Nazies to arrive at
our borders and let them dictate a way of life for us. What was that
famous American saying, "Give me Liberty or Give me Death"?


I invite you to read about Godwin's Law at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law. Read the first sentence under
"Corollaries and usage".

In another post you've mentioned being deported. When I read your posts you
seem uptight and angry. I don't understand why you stay in a country where
you are so unhappy. I don't know what you want, but I can say this...
expectations will only lead to disappointment.

I feel I have more confidence in my ability to remain level-headed through
life since I started to view things differently, and I'm open to sharing
ideas. If you want my input on anything you are going through feel free to
start a new thread and provide me with what you want, rather than your
experiences & don't wants.

Thanks,
Tracy


  #265  
Old June 10th 06, 03:19 PM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??


Moon Shyne wrote:
"Assumed" wrote in message
oups.com...

DB wrote:
"Moon Shyne" wrote in

Only AFTER you have spent 100% of the amount paid by the father.

Since the amount I receive is far less than 50% of the actual costs
incurred in supporting and raising the children, it's only common sense
that 100% of what he sends is spent on them.

You've already acknowledge that you receive half of a $1000/month.

I would be interested to see your version of how much is directly spent
on
your children.
Give us actual dollar fugures so we can judge for ourselves if you are
burdened with expensis you cannot afford on your own.

Perhaps common sense isn't your strong suit?

Perhaps budgeting is not your strong suit or maybe you are just cheap!



The 50 percent spent on the child argument lacks a bit of insight.

I consider that mothers, many at the least, do indeed spend as much
money as they can on their children - EVEN though I've yet to meet a CP
who tracked how much she DID spend.

Here is the rub.
A good mother will ALWAYS spend just a bit more than she can afford on
her children.
A good father rarely will.

When the couple are together, it is usually the father that is the
moderating influence on how much is spent on the children.

When the money is an object of the court's directive, the mother will
AGAIN spend a bit more than she can afford, but it is half the father's
money, the money that in another time and place he would have curbed.

So, it has been my experience that a mother, getting decent support
will turn away from tennis shoes at Walmart and go for the Adidas or
the Nikes BECAUSE she can. SHE is the purse holder now and no one, not
the father or even the courts can tell her what how to manage her
money.

It will ALWAYS cost more to raise a child than a mother has but it will
also ALWAYS cost more to raise a child than a mother has, no matter how
much she DOES have.

Many will say "what difference does this make, so long as the child is
taken care of? Why be prudent with the children's money? after all,
it is being spent on the children."

The answer is that there is a mindset that if the child support money
is not spent on the children immediately, there is something wrong.

When "extra" expenses crop up, such as out of pocket medical, a child's
first used car, or....College then there isn't enough money because
none was saved out for these things. The mother was being as
extravagant as possible in the moment.

Rather than rely on that money as TRUELY for the children, in other
words a portion of it SAVED for the children - it is all spent as
quickly as it is gotten, the mother complaining that it isn't really
enough.

In the end, it is the paying NCP that is asked to pay yet again for the
lack of fiscal constraint on the CP's part.

These assumptions on my part can be easily demonstrated btw.


Assume this, Leonard. My child incurred thousands of dollars in medical
bills (after the insurance coverage, insurance that I solely provide) after
sustaining an injury 7 months ago.

Every bill has been paid off in full.

My children have not one, but two college trust funds (each), even though
college is still years off.

You paint all custodial mothers with the same brush, when all people are
different.

Your prejudices are distasteful.



Leonard


Good for you. How much have you in those accounts? Yes, I am
prejudice but if you will read the entire description I lay out a sort
of mother who takes her responsabilites seriously. I simply see many
of them as being very short sighted.

Leonard

  #266  
Old June 10th 06, 03:23 PM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??


Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Assumed" wrote in message
oups.com...

DB wrote:
"Moon Shyne" wrote in

Only AFTER you have spent 100% of the amount paid by the father.

Since the amount I receive is far less than 50% of the actual costs
incurred in supporting and raising the children, it's only common

sense
that 100% of what he sends is spent on them.

You've already acknowledge that you receive half of a $1000/month.

I would be interested to see your version of how much is directly spent

on
your children.
Give us actual dollar fugures so we can judge for ourselves if you are
burdened with expensis you cannot afford on your own.

Perhaps common sense isn't your strong suit?

Perhaps budgeting is not your strong suit or maybe you are just cheap!



The 50 percent spent on the child argument lacks a bit of insight.

I consider that mothers, many at the least, do indeed spend as much
money as they can on their children - EVEN though I've yet to meet a CP
who tracked how much she DID spend.

Here is the rub.
A good mother will ALWAYS spend just a bit more than she can afford on
her children.
A good father rarely will.


I find this statement highly objectionable becasue it is not based on
factual reality. CS guideline models follow the Department of Agriculure's
lead and factor in an additional amount (the government says it is 24%) as
an add-on for expenditures on children in a single family household to
increase the expenditures on children above those made in mother-father
intact households.

But fathers typically pay more than 50% of the guideline amount. That means
fathers pay a greater share of the percentage add-on which means they pay
more than just the average coast of raising a child.

The guidelines are constructed using data from intact familes so they never
consider what a father spends for providing a place for children to visit,
the food they eat, extra entertainment, etc. Studies in Arizona have shown
the costs that travel with the children are around 27%. A fathers pays
these expenses over and above his CS obligation that covers the children
being with the mother 100% of the time.

Putting those three factors together, fathers will ALWAYS spend more than
their share on his children.


When the couple are together, it is usually the father that is the
moderating influence on how much is spent on the children.

When the money is an object of the court's directive, the mother will
AGAIN spend a bit more than she can afford, but it is half the father's
money, the money that in another time and place he would have curbed.


This doesn't make sense. If an order is split on average 60-65% for the
father and 35-40% for the mother, the mother would have to spend her court
ordered amount plus an additional 50% more out of her won money to reach the
father's share of the order.


So, it has been my experience that a mother, getting decent support
will turn away from tennis shoes at Walmart and go for the Adidas or
the Nikes BECAUSE she can. SHE is the purse holder now and no one, not
the father or even the courts can tell her what how to manage her
money.


She can also use the money to buy expensive booze, drugs, and support a
boyfriend. If single mothers don't keep track of how they spend their money
how can anyone know how they spend their money?


It will ALWAYS cost more to raise a child than a mother has but it will
also ALWAYS cost more to raise a child than a mother has, no matter how
much she DOES have.


The cost of raising a children is calculated based on income ranges before
it is spread across various spending categories. Expenditures on children
are based on what money is available not how much is spent.


Many will say "what difference does this make, so long as the child is
taken care of? Why be prudent with the children's money? after all,
it is being spent on the children."

The answer is that there is a mindset that if the child support money
is not spent on the children immediately, there is something wrong.

When "extra" expenses crop up, such as out of pocket medical, a child's
first used car, or....College then there isn't enough money because
none was saved out for these things. The mother was being as
extravagant as possible in the moment.

Rather than rely on that money as TRUELY for the children, in other
words a portion of it SAVED for the children - it is all spent as
quickly as it is gotten, the mother complaining that it isn't really
enough.

In the end, it is the paying NCP that is asked to pay yet again for the
lack of fiscal constraint on the CP's part.

These assumptions on my part can be easily demonstrated btw.


I challenge you to demonstrate your conclusions.


I meant voluntarily, not by order of the court. I agree and appreciate
that what the court demands is rarely equitable.

Leonard

  #267  
Old June 10th 06, 04:14 PM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??


"Tracy" wrote in message

Pretty much...... it's the bank's fault, it's the ex's fault, it's the
lawyer's fault, it's the judge's fault, it's CSE's fault.......

seems to be a recurring theme.


Hello DB

I guess woudl should all be too happy to take respocibility for our
****ups and be glad to pay the $1200/mth that the government has set
forth.


I need you to clarify your statement above.


I get the feeling that some people think that us so called deadbeads should
just laydown and let the Government walk all over us. Just because we can't
afford the CS rates the State sets, it's no reason to criminalize people for
being poor, and yes, I am part of the working poor.

Some people think we complain a little too much on this forum, but those
same people are not threatened by big government's campaign to put people in
prison for not having enough money to pay the extortionate CS rates.



I guess we could have all sat back and waited for the Nazies to arrive at
our borders and let them dictate a way of life for us. What was that
famous American saying, "Give me Liberty or Give me Death"?


I invite you to read about Godwin's Law at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law. Read the first sentence under
"Corollaries and usage".


Thanks! Nazi is the first thing that comes to people's mind in describing
the worst possible thing that revolts them. Can you tell me how the American
Government is any different from Nazi Germany when they imprisoned a
designated segment of it's citizens? Can you think of anything more
politically revolting than a government jailing people over a money issue?




  #268  
Old June 10th 06, 04:36 PM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C$ paid, yet Judge orders prison time for not paying child support..??


"Assumed" wrote in message
oups.com...

Moon Shyne wrote:
"Assumed" wrote in message
oups.com...

DB wrote:
"Moon Shyne" wrote in

Only AFTER you have spent 100% of the amount paid by the father.

Since the amount I receive is far less than 50% of the actual costs
incurred in supporting and raising the children, it's only common
sense
that 100% of what he sends is spent on them.

You've already acknowledge that you receive half of a $1000/month.

I would be interested to see your version of how much is directly
spent
on
your children.
Give us actual dollar fugures so we can judge for ourselves if you are
burdened with expensis you cannot afford on your own.

Perhaps common sense isn't your strong suit?

Perhaps budgeting is not your strong suit or maybe you are just cheap!


The 50 percent spent on the child argument lacks a bit of insight.

I consider that mothers, many at the least, do indeed spend as much
money as they can on their children - EVEN though I've yet to meet a CP
who tracked how much she DID spend.

Here is the rub.
A good mother will ALWAYS spend just a bit more than she can afford on
her children.
A good father rarely will.

When the couple are together, it is usually the father that is the
moderating influence on how much is spent on the children.

When the money is an object of the court's directive, the mother will
AGAIN spend a bit more than she can afford, but it is half the father's
money, the money that in another time and place he would have curbed.

So, it has been my experience that a mother, getting decent support
will turn away from tennis shoes at Walmart and go for the Adidas or
the Nikes BECAUSE she can. SHE is the purse holder now and no one, not
the father or even the courts can tell her what how to manage her
money.

It will ALWAYS cost more to raise a child than a mother has but it will
also ALWAYS cost more to raise a child than a mother has, no matter how
much she DOES have.

Many will say "what difference does this make, so long as the child is
taken care of? Why be prudent with the children's money? after all,
it is being spent on the children."

The answer is that there is a mindset that if the child support money
is not spent on the children immediately, there is something wrong.

When "extra" expenses crop up, such as out of pocket medical, a child's
first used car, or....College then there isn't enough money because
none was saved out for these things. The mother was being as
extravagant as possible in the moment.

Rather than rely on that money as TRUELY for the children, in other
words a portion of it SAVED for the children - it is all spent as
quickly as it is gotten, the mother complaining that it isn't really
enough.

In the end, it is the paying NCP that is asked to pay yet again for the
lack of fiscal constraint on the CP's part.

These assumptions on my part can be easily demonstrated btw.


Assume this, Leonard. My child incurred thousands of dollars in medical
bills (after the insurance coverage, insurance that I solely provide)
after
sustaining an injury 7 months ago.

Every bill has been paid off in full.

My children have not one, but two college trust funds (each), even though
college is still years off.

You paint all custodial mothers with the same brush, when all people are
different.

Your prejudices are distasteful.



Leonard


Good for you. How much have you in those accounts?


That's really none of your busines.... The college trust funds were set up
when each of my children was born.

Yes, I am
prejudice but if you will read the entire description I lay out a sort
of mother who takes her responsabilites seriously. I simply see many
of them as being very short sighted.


Just as there are any number of fathers who are very short sighted.


Leonard



 




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