Ok, I know what I should do... But... It's not that simple...

"kat" wrote in message
news:vnVvb.19182$IZ1.13878@edtnps84...
Well, I have this real good friend, who lives in Calgary, who's been
having
some problems.
Quick rundown on her: She's 27 (next month) on her second marriage (her
husband was killed 2 years ago yesterday, actually) and her second
marriage
only happend in June when she found out she was pregnant by her good
friend,
who was best man at her first wedding. (I believe they were both drunk,
and
it was a one night stand type thing)
So... She got married June, he's a useless piece of **** that I never
cared
much for from the start. This September, **** happened, to keep the story
short, and she kicked him out of her house. (She has money, a good job,
her
own house, cars, etc., and he has very little as far as life goes -
gambling, cars and bars is his life, it seems) She's been staying, since
September, mostly at her grandparents' place, here in Edmonton.
2 weeks ago, we went out together, then the next day she called me cause
she
was having these babies right away, and I rushed to the other side of the
city, picked her up and took her to the hospital, and even stayed with her
for most of the time she was there. She had her babies 2 weeks ago on
Sunday (twin boys) and, from what I've seen directly, is a useless piece
of
**** herself.
Again, she's been staying at her grandparents' place, and they're both
older
than Moses, and on many, many occasions, over the past 2 weeks, has called
me up in the middle of the night, crying herself and all I could hear was
these babies screaming in the background. Every time I've told her to
come
over to my place and I'd help her out. She stayed here the first time for
4
days, and I did my best to try and get both these babies on some type of a
schedule of feeding and sleeping that would be easier on her (even though
I'm sure we all know babies like to keep their own crazy schedules) I
ended
up being able to have both babies sleep around the same times and get up
to
eat around the same times, and I gave her a night where she could get some
sleep and I could get up in the middle of the night. (To me, this seems
no
different than a couple both taking turns with feedings and all that, and
I
didn't mind)
Now I am starting to mind. She's been coming over more and more and she
sleeps all day and all night, it seems, and I've been stuck doing her
parenting responsibilities.
I know, in a way, I've put myself in this position, and I know I should
tell
her to grow up and be responsible for her own children, but I also know
what
it's like to take care of a child with no one else around, and I know how
damn hard it was with one infant, and at the time, I could only imagine
what
it would be like with 2, and especially her and the way she is.
It got so bad for me, with her just sleeping all day and night, that I
would
put both babies on the floor in the bouncy chairs while she slept on the
couch, hoping as they cried that she would wake up and do something, but
there's only so much screaming I can take, and she just seems to sleep
right
through it and ignores it. One day, I had LOTS of running around to do
all
over the city, and she wouldn't get up, so I had to pack off all these
kids
into the car and haul them around with me as I ran errands, and she had
just
woken up shortly before I got home - hours later.
This is driving me insane. I DO know I should boot her ass out and tell
her
to call me when she wants some HELP every now and then, not when she wants
me to raise her children while she sleeps all day and night. These
babies
are almost 2 weeks old, and really, I think they've been seeing my face
more
than their own mother's, and at 2 weeks old, I do not think that what she
is
doing is right, or at any age, really. I know I should tell her I don't
mind watching them if she wants a night out or a bit of time to herself,
but
really, it's been 2 weeks and she's already wanting time to herself
without
worries??
Seriously, I know what I should be doing, but I also know that standing by
and knowing they'll be neglected is even worse, and really, the last
things
I want is for her to neglect or ignore them, or to call child welfare and
have them take them away. I feel like I'm babysitting an adult child, as
well as 2 extra infants, but I just feel like I'm so trapped...
I know this is stupid, and yes, I made my own bed, but really, what would
you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
lose-lose situation?




Sounds to me like she may be suffering from post-partum depression. Have
her see her doctor right away, go with her and tell him what she's been
doing, because she's likely not to. Also, be firm with her, tell her she
needs to take more responsibility for her babies. Then follow your head for
the next step, whatever that may be. Firstly, I would recommend ruling out
depression, because that's what it sounds like to me. But then, I'm just a
nurse. :-)

Betsy

"Betsy" wrote in message
. ..

"kat" wrote in message
news:vnVvb.19182$IZ1.13878@edtnps84...
Well, I have this real good friend, who lives in Calgary, who's been
having
some problems.
Quick rundown on her: She's 27 (next month) on her second marriage (her
husband was killed 2 years ago yesterday, actually) and her second
marriage
only happend in June when she found out she was pregnant by her good
friend,
who was best man at her first wedding. (I believe they were both drunk,
and
it was a one night stand type thing)
So... She got married June, he's a useless piece of **** that I never
cared
much for from the start. This September, **** happened, to keep the
story
short, and she kicked him out of her house. (She has money, a good job,
her
own house, cars, etc., and he has very little as far as life goes -
gambling, cars and bars is his life, it seems) She's been staying,
since
September, mostly at her grandparents' place, here in Edmonton.
2 weeks ago, we went out together, then the next day she called me cause
she
was having these babies right away, and I rushed to the other side of
the
city, picked her up and took her to the hospital, and even stayed with
her
for most of the time she was there. She had her babies 2 weeks ago on
Sunday (twin boys) and, from what I've seen directly, is a useless piece
of
**** herself.
Again, she's been staying at her grandparents' place, and they're both
older
than Moses, and on many, many occasions, over the past 2 weeks, has
called
me up in the middle of the night, crying herself and all I could hear
was
these babies screaming in the background. Every time I've told her to
come
over to my place and I'd help her out. She stayed here the first time
for
4
days, and I did my best to try and get both these babies on some type of
a
schedule of feeding and sleeping that would be easier on her (even
though
I'm sure we all know babies like to keep their own crazy schedules) I
ended
up being able to have both babies sleep around the same times and get up
to
eat around the same times, and I gave her a night where she could get
some
sleep and I could get up in the middle of the night. (To me, this seems
no
different than a couple both taking turns with feedings and all that,
and
I
didn't mind)
Now I am starting to mind. She's been coming over more and more and she
sleeps all day and all night, it seems, and I've been stuck doing her
parenting responsibilities.
I know, in a way, I've put myself in this position, and I know I should
tell
her to grow up and be responsible for her own children, but I also know
what
it's like to take care of a child with no one else around, and I know
how
damn hard it was with one infant, and at the time, I could only imagine
what
it would be like with 2, and especially her and the way she is.
It got so bad for me, with her just sleeping all day and night, that I
would
put both babies on the floor in the bouncy chairs while she slept on the
couch, hoping as they cried that she would wake up and do something, but
there's only so much screaming I can take, and she just seems to sleep
right
through it and ignores it. One day, I had LOTS of running around to do
all
over the city, and she wouldn't get up, so I had to pack off all these
kids
into the car and haul them around with me as I ran errands, and she had
just
woken up shortly before I got home - hours later.
This is driving me insane. I DO know I should boot her ass out and tell
her
to call me when she wants some HELP every now and then, not when she
wants
me to raise her children while she sleeps all day and night. These
babies
are almost 2 weeks old, and really, I think they've been seeing my face
more
than their own mother's, and at 2 weeks old, I do not think that what
she
is
doing is right, or at any age, really. I know I should tell her I don't
mind watching them if she wants a night out or a bit of time to herself,
but
really, it's been 2 weeks and she's already wanting time to herself
without
worries??
Seriously, I know what I should be doing, but I also know that standing
by
and knowing they'll be neglected is even worse, and really, the last
things
I want is for her to neglect or ignore them, or to call child welfare
and
have them take them away. I feel like I'm babysitting an adult child,
as
well as 2 extra infants, but I just feel like I'm so trapped...
I know this is stupid, and yes, I made my own bed, but really, what
would
you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
lose-lose situation?




Sounds to me like she may be suffering from post-partum depression. Have
her see her doctor right away, go with her and tell him what she's been
doing, because she's likely not to. Also, be firm with her, tell her she
needs to take more responsibility for her babies. Then follow your head
for
the next step, whatever that may be. Firstly, I would recommend ruling
out
depression, because that's what it sounds like to me. But then, I'm just
a
nurse. :-)

Betsy

Yes, but I know her inside and out, so to speak, and it's definitely not
post partum depression. Getting up all day and all night with a baby, or
two, will obviously make a person tired, cranky, on edge, even unhappy, no
matter who they are. But she really hasn't changed at all, even though I
she'd be the first candidate for ppd. She just seems to not get it that
both of her own babies need her. She's just very selfish, and she always
has been. Really, she's no happier or sadder or depressed or anxious or
anything, really, than what she's always been since the day I met her years
ago. There's definitely not any sudden or even gradual change in her, even
though a change is needed for some things, ie, priorities.
I know she has talked to the community nurse, and had even asked the nurse
to come back the following day (after that first in home visit) and I know
she was angry because she said that what the nurse told her didn't work at
all, but other than that, if she would just care more about other things
than herself, I know things would go way better for her.
She props up bottles while playing video games, then when I told her she
really shouldn't do that, and picked one up, she then was like, 'oh yea, I
guess you're right' and picked the other one up, and we both sat on the
couch, each feeding a baby, and sat talking the whole time, gossiping about
everyone we could think of. She knows right from wrong, but it's like she
just has other priorities, and I'm thinking it will just be time before she
grows up... Maybe I am completely wrong, but she's not suffering from ppd...
Sure, she sleeps all the time, but she's always been a workaholic who sleeps
every hour that she's not working, she doesn't have any kind of mood swings
at all, she doesn't cry for what seems like no reason (other than the couple
times she called me when she had no idea what to do) and she doesn't lack
total interest in either baby at all. She hasn't ever been overly happy or
sad, like, she's just her normal self, only now it seems to be more of a
concern because it's not just her.
I thought maybe she could have had a touch of the baby blues, or ppd, but
when I actually started paying attention and trying to 'watch' her without
her knowing, I saw I was the one who was going crazy. I looked all over the
computer, even tore through boxes downstairs to find my old books and such
to get some info, and from the bit I could find, she just doesn't seem to
fit any of the listed symptoms. I think it's me who is now going really,
really crazy...

Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for them.

How much do you know about the child protective services in your area? They
all vary and not all of them go for the jugular. Some really do want to work
with the parent. They can offer a lot of services and resources. ANd sometimes
it is the scare of loosing the kids that turns someone around. Why don't you
check out for sure what would happen if you called them?

Unfortunately there really is no perfect solution and no easy way out for you.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:23:12 GMT, "kat" wrote:


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
what would
you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
lose-lose situation?

I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you
have to
think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
going to
raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what is
best
for the children and it should be a little less complicated.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for them.
I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better at
all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to her
and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
I'm even getting to the point where I've been debating on calling that idiot
father and telling him to get his act together. She doesn't want him around
until he can stop drinking, and I agree with her 100% there. As much as I
don't like that fool, I do think he'd make a damn good dad, IF he can
control his drinking, because he's not that bad of a guy under normal
circumstances, there's just something about him I don't like (maybe
personality clash?) and he WANTS to see his kids. I don't know if I should
contact him and see what is going on or not.

You're saying the father wants to see his babies and hasn't been
allowed to? That's not right. You may be right that a foster home
would not be better for them. Maybe their father's home would be
better for them. Maybe their mother is suffering from post-partum
depression and this is temporary. But what they've got right now
doesn't seem fair to them. I do not envy your position.

lm (wishing kat peace of mind and a good night's sleep)

"Joelle" wrote in message
...

Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
them.

How much do you know about the child protective services in your area?
They
all vary and not all of them go for the jugular. Some really do want to
work
with the parent. They can offer a lot of services and resources. ANd
sometimes
it is the scare of loosing the kids that turns someone around. Why don't
you
check out for sure what would happen if you called them?

I know it inside and out, from front to back and everything in between.
That's what I was going to school for last year (and I guess my excuse this
year was I just needed a break?) My mom has also been in child
protection (child welfare) for over 25 years, which is longer than that I've
even been around. I've seen, first hand, children bouncing from foster home
to foster home then on to grouphomes and back.
Really, actually, one of my first thoughts of calling was the hopes of
scaring her to know that child abuse, in ANY way (be it neglect, emotional,
physical, psychological, sexual, etc. is not right) and I kind of see that
she doesn't really realize things until they are pointed out, just because
she doesn't know, and now that I think about it, I remember those days when
I, as well, didn't know either, but I was smart enough to ask for help, and
keep it as just help every now and then, and I was always willing to listen
to advice and try new things. She just doesn't seem to be at that point
yet.

Unfortunately there really is no perfect solution and no easy way out for
you.

Yes, I do see this. But after last night, when I had talked to her, it was
like she was almost listening and actually hearing me, which is, a total
change for her... Maybe she had heard ME complaining about it to Wes, or
maybe she came here and read what I was saying, or maybe she has started to
realize by my own actions and things I say...

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"lm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:23:12 GMT, "kat" wrote:


"Joelle" wrote in message
...
what would
you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
lose-lose situation?

I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you
have to
think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
going to
raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what
is
best
for the children and it should be a little less complicated.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
them.
I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better
at
all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to
her
and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
I'm even getting to the point where I've been debating on calling that
idiot
father and telling him to get his act together. She doesn't want him
around
until he can stop drinking, and I agree with her 100% there. As much as
I
don't like that fool, I do think he'd make a damn good dad, IF he can
control his drinking, because he's not that bad of a guy under normal
circumstances, there's just something about him I don't like (maybe
personality clash?) and he WANTS to see his kids. I don't know if I
should
contact him and see what is going on or not.

You're saying the father wants to see his babies and hasn't been
allowed to? That's not right.

No, I think it is right, only because all he does is drink. His life of
being this hardcore triad is so wonderful and full of gangs, booze,
gambling, street racing, guns, the list goes on. She told him to cut that
crap out for the safety of all involved because she wants no part of it now.

You may be right that a foster home
would not be better for them. Maybe their father's home would be
better for them.

Haha MAYBE if he had a home it would be great. His home is in his
beautiful, expensive car. Other than that, he bounces, now, from friends to
friends, crashing where he's able to. No, that is not better. When she
kicked him out of her house (she's the one with the real money, owns her own
house, cars, has a real job, etc.) he was just staying wherever, again. My
opinion on this is strong as well, that this is not better, nor is coming
around drunk, half drunk, or hung over.

Maybe their mother is suffering from post-partum
depression and this is temporary. But what they've got right now
doesn't seem fair to them. I do not envy your position.

I agree. But again, I'm still sticking to the fact that she is just a
spoiled brat herself...

lm (wishing kat peace of mind and a good night's sleep)