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  #11  
Old November 1st 05, 05:08 PM
beeswing
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Default Halloween candy

Claire Petersky wrote:

Similarly, I don't think it's totally out of line for me to buy a small
package of say, Scottish Shortbread, announce to the family that it was
expressly purchased for my personal benefit


I do this part of this. But I'm more direct and self-serving: "I bought
this for me. It's mine. Lay off." (Okay, not those words.) Direct works
at our house.

and expect that there might be
a piece of shortbread in the package at any one time.


There is only one item, Luna bars, that I attempt to go this route with
(say that it's "mine" but The Kid can have some, within reason). The
inevitable result is always that my daughter will rifle through them
until there is only one or two left of the flavors I like the least and
she doesn't really care for. Then she will leave those "for me." In my
experience, expecting it to be otherwise is a fruitless venture into
self-aggravation.

Personally, I pick which strategy I use based on how badly I want to be
able to depend on something being there when I want it. If I wanted
guaranteed access to my shortbread (for example), I'd do one of two
things: I'd say "This is mine. Lay off." Or, if I was feeling more
generous, I'd buy two packages and label them (or hide one!). "This
package is mine. Lay off. This package is yours; you are welcome to it,
but when it is gone, it's gone."

I use the above practice especially with boxes of Girl Scout cookies,
since I go through cookies so much slower than my husband and daughter.
"These are your boxes." "This is my box. Keep out." I might choose to
share some of my box, but no one is allowed to break into it
independently of that. It works at my house. (Maybe it's because my
family is terrified of me when I'm unexpectedly out of thin mints.
). Your mileage may vary, unfortunately.

The main advantages to me and family: Expectations are fully known and
can be easily met without much thought.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

beeswing

  #12  
Old November 2nd 05, 12:37 AM
Kevin Karplus
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Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy

On 2005-11-01, animzmirot wrote:
With that said, I think anyone that buys halloween candy 3 weeks ahead of
time and expects it to still be there is either from another planet or
living in denial. If you have children, they're going to want to eat candy.
I usually buy a couple of bags before the holiday to keep the kids happy.


We routinely buy Halloween candy at the beginning of October, and the
bags remain unopened until Oct 31---and these are candies that
everyone in the house likes. My son is allowed one candy a day year
round (with no limits on Halloween, Christmas, Easter, his birthday,
and no limit on Hannukah gelt during Hannukah). Most days he doesn't
bother to ask for his candy---I think we still have some of the less
popular candies from last Halloween.

Of course, we do hide the Halloween candy during October---not because
anyone is looking for it, but because if it is out of sight no one
will be unreasonably tempted. One common hiding place is the freezer.

We often have food in the house that is intended for a single
consumer, but generally such items have to be announced or labeled.
Most of the common ones need no labeling (my wife is the only one who
drinks coffee, I'm the only one who drinks tea, my son gets whole
milk, I get skim milk, only my wife eats salsa with cilantro in it, ...).
If there is a bar of chocolate being saved for a cake or something,
everyone needs to be told.

Utility items (bread, cheese, tortillas, rice, leftovers, ...) can be
eaten by anyone at any time. It is considered polite to let someone
know when we run out of something (or nearly do) so that it can be
replenished.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

  #13  
Old November 2nd 05, 04:23 PM
Robyn Kozierok
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Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy

In article ,
animzmirot wrote:

I think a family member should not
be so controlling as to hog an item for themselves and not share it.


That doesn't seem to be what's going on here. Claire simply wants to be
informed if someone used up her "special treats". I handle this by keeping
my special treats in my office. I will share, if asked, but the kids aren't
allowed to just take them as they can with other snacks in the house. That
way, I know myself if we are running out.

With that said, I think anyone that buys halloween candy 3 weeks ahead of
time and expects it to still be there is either from another planet or
living in denial. If you have children, they're going to want to eat candy.


I guess I'm from another planet, or my kids are, because as much as they
may *want* to eat candy, if I tell them the candies are for halloween, and
they shouldn't touch them, they won't. They might beg, but they would
*never* just take them. (As in the OP's case, DH might be a different
story....)

--Robyn
..

  #14  
Old November 2nd 05, 08:31 PM
Penny Gaines
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Default Halloween candy

animzmirot wrote:

I think a family member should not
be so controlling as to hog an item for themselves and not share it.


Well, I sort of agree, and sort of disagree.

I agree that if one person - especially the parent, who can make most
of the food purchasing decisions - buys something that everyone likes a lot,
but doesn't share it, then they are being rather selfish.

OTOH, sometimes one persn really likes something, although others find it
pleasant enough. In those circumstances it is less reasonable for other
family members to eat it just because they fancied a snack, and it was the
first thing they saw.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

  #15  
Old November 2nd 05, 10:02 PM
Banty
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Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy

In article , Robyn Kozierok says...

In article ,
animzmirot wrote:

I think a family member should not
be so controlling as to hog an item for themselves and not share it.


That doesn't seem to be what's going on here. Claire simply wants to be
informed if someone used up her "special treats". I handle this by keeping
my special treats in my office. I will share, if asked, but the kids aren't
allowed to just take them as they can with other snacks in the house. That
way, I know myself if we are running out.


And what exactly is wrong with keeping some goodies to oneself anyway? What is
being inappropriately controlled?? Unless little chocolate bars or favorite tea
cookies will be going to their shrinks saying "I was purchased by a controlling
household"

Besides, thems that does the shopping, gets some benefits. (Thems that up and
help with the shopping, can claim similar benefits!)


With that said, I think anyone that buys halloween candy 3 weeks ahead of
time and expects it to still be there is either from another planet or
living in denial. If you have children, they're going to want to eat candy.


I guess I'm from another planet, or my kids are, because as much as they
may *want* to eat candy, if I tell them the candies are for halloween, and
they shouldn't touch them, they won't. They might beg, but they would
*never* just take them. (As in the OP's case, DH might be a different
story....)


There *is* no reason why that can't happen on this planet. 'cept for folks who
don't like to do it dominating the group interaction sometimes.

Banty

  #16  
Old November 3rd 05, 02:12 AM
dragonlady
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Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article , Robyn Kozierok says...

In article ,
animzmirot wrote:

I think a family member should not
be so controlling as to hog an item for themselves and not share it.


That doesn't seem to be what's going on here. Claire simply wants to be
informed if someone used up her "special treats". I handle this by keeping
my special treats in my office. I will share, if asked, but the kids aren't
allowed to just take them as they can with other snacks in the house. That
way, I know myself if we are running out.


And what exactly is wrong with keeping some goodies to oneself anyway? What
is
being inappropriately controlled?? Unless little chocolate bars or favorite
tea
cookies will be going to their shrinks saying "I was purchased by a
controlling
household"


I think that what I'm reacting to when I hear about someone buying
special treats for themselves is households where the parents get the
good stuff, and eat it in front of the kids -- but won't let the kids
have any. I know they are rare, but I've run into it, and find it
pretty offensive.

Heck, when I was a kid I can remember a couple of family gatherings
where the grownups got steak off the grill -- and the kids got hot dogs.
I don't mind eating hot dogs, but not while others are eating steak! My
parents would never do that -- they might offer us a choice -- but these
were events where someone else was providing the food, and we had better
manners than to challenge the situation.

Except for situations like a lunch room, I won't eat in front of other
people without offering them some of whatever I'm eating, and that
includes children.

My parents taught us that rule -- on the other hand, I didn't know my
mother liked lox until I was in my 20's. Apparently she craved them
when she was pregnant -- but there was no way she could afford for US to
find out we liked them, so she bought them and hid them behind the
vegetables . . .

Besides, thems that does the shopping, gets some benefits. (Thems that up
and
help with the shopping, can claim similar benefits!)


With that said, I think anyone that buys halloween candy 3 weeks ahead of
time and expects it to still be there is either from another planet or
living in denial. If you have children, they're going to want to eat candy.


I guess I'm from another planet, or my kids are, because as much as they
may *want* to eat candy, if I tell them the candies are for halloween, and
they shouldn't touch them, they won't. They might beg, but they would
*never* just take them. (As in the OP's case, DH might be a different
story....)


There *is* no reason why that can't happen on this planet. 'cept for folks
who
don't like to do it dominating the group interaction sometimes.

Banty

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #17  
Old November 3rd 05, 04:03 AM
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article , Robyn Kozierok says...

In article ,
animzmirot wrote:

I think a family member should not
be so controlling as to hog an item for themselves and not share it.

That doesn't seem to be what's going on here. Claire simply wants to be
informed if someone used up her "special treats". I handle this by keeping
my special treats in my office. I will share, if asked, but the kids aren't
allowed to just take them as they can with other snacks in the house. That
way, I know myself if we are running out.


And what exactly is wrong with keeping some goodies to oneself anyway? What
is
being inappropriately controlled?? Unless little chocolate bars or favorite
tea
cookies will be going to their shrinks saying "I was purchased by a
controlling
household"


I think that what I'm reacting to when I hear about someone buying
special treats for themselves is households where the parents get the
good stuff, and eat it in front of the kids -- but won't let the kids
have any. I know they are rare, but I've run into it, and find it
pretty offensive.


I don't think that's at all the same thing as what we're talking about. There
is a long way from being the *only* people to eat the good stuff (and, from your
descriptions, enjoying in front of everyone) to want to be able to partake in
one's favorite foods hardly *at all*, and not want to see it has dissappeared
because our attention had been turned to running a household an earning a
living.


Heck, when I was a kid I can remember a couple of family gatherings
where the grownups got steak off the grill -- and the kids got hot dogs.
I don't mind eating hot dogs, but not while others are eating steak! My
parents would never do that -- they might offer us a choice -- but these
were events where someone else was providing the food, and we had better
manners than to challenge the situation.


Are you sure it wasn't simply because the kids by and large preferred the hot
dogs?


Except for situations like a lunch room, I won't eat in front of other
people without offering them some of whatever I'm eating, and that
includes children.

My parents taught us that rule -- on the other hand, I didn't know my
mother liked lox until I was in my 20's. Apparently she craved them
when she was pregnant -- but there was no way she could afford for US to
find out we liked them, so she bought them and hid them behind the
vegetables . . .


Well, this is interesting. Would you say that your mother, in order not to be
selfish, should have resolved that dilemma by self-denial?

I think the situation being discussed, and I've run into it mostly in roomate
situations (in my family of origin we *were* expected to keep hands off goodies
without asking - truly, it can be done!) it does get to the point that one just
gives up on doing or having anything special. I mean, really, does a virgin
hand-baked three-teired fancily frosted cake HAVE to have written on it
"Grandma and Grandpa's 50th Wedding Anniversary" in order for some impulsive
lout not to chop a big square out of it in the middle of the afternoon 'cause
he'd run out of microwave popcorn? That is an oppresive thing to have to live
with, too. Because the net effect of that is that nice things don't happen as
often. Like with your mother's lox.

Banty

  #18  
Old November 3rd 05, 12:19 PM
dragonlady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article , Robyn Kozierok
says...

In article ,
animzmirot wrote:

I think a family member should not
be so controlling as to hog an item for themselves and not share it.

That doesn't seem to be what's going on here. Claire simply wants to be
informed if someone used up her "special treats". I handle this by
keeping
my special treats in my office. I will share, if asked, but the kids
aren't
allowed to just take them as they can with other snacks in the house.
That
way, I know myself if we are running out.

And what exactly is wrong with keeping some goodies to oneself anyway?
What
is
being inappropriately controlled?? Unless little chocolate bars or
favorite
tea
cookies will be going to their shrinks saying "I was purchased by a
controlling
household"


I think that what I'm reacting to when I hear about someone buying
special treats for themselves is households where the parents get the
good stuff, and eat it in front of the kids -- but won't let the kids
have any. I know they are rare, but I've run into it, and find it
pretty offensive.


I don't think that's at all the same thing as what we're talking about.
There
is a long way from being the *only* people to eat the good stuff (and, from
your
descriptions, enjoying in front of everyone) to want to be able to partake in
one's favorite foods hardly *at all*, and not want to see it has dissappeared
because our attention had been turned to running a household an earning a
living.


I know; I was explaining why I think I react so strongly (over react,
probably) to this sort of thing.


Heck, when I was a kid I can remember a couple of family gatherings
where the grownups got steak off the grill -- and the kids got hot dogs.
I don't mind eating hot dogs, but not while others are eating steak! My
parents would never do that -- they might offer us a choice -- but these
were events where someone else was providing the food, and we had better
manners than to challenge the situation.


Are you sure it wasn't simply because the kids by and large preferred the hot
dogs?


I'm sure that's what they told themselves; however, I found ways (at
other times) to make SURE my aunts and uncles knew how much I liked
steak, but still was not offered steak at barbeques; that was only for
the adults.



Except for situations like a lunch room, I won't eat in front of other
people without offering them some of whatever I'm eating, and that
includes children.

My parents taught us that rule -- on the other hand, I didn't know my
mother liked lox until I was in my 20's. Apparently she craved them
when she was pregnant -- but there was no way she could afford for US to
find out we liked them, so she bought them and hid them behind the
vegetables . . .


Well, this is interesting. Would you say that your mother, in order not to
be
selfish, should have resolved that dilemma by self-denial?


No -- actually, I think it's pretty funny that I'd never tasted lox
until after I left home, and just assumed my mother didn't even know
what they were, and that I would be able to introduce HER to them.

I don't think it's necessary to forgo things like that, necessarily --
but I would have thought it unreasonable if she'd put them in plain
sight, and told us that they were all for HER. As it was, what we
didn't know didn't hurt us. (We were pretty poor -- I know now that
there were a number of things she just never fed us, because she figured
they couldn't afford for us to find out we liked, say, shrimp or
lobster.)

Similarly, I would think it unreasonable if we'd kept, say, coke in the
house (DH used to have a serious addiction to the stuff) and told the
kids that it was just for him.


I think the situation being discussed, and I've run into it mostly in roomate
situations (in my family of origin we *were* expected to keep hands off
goodies
without asking - truly, it can be done!) it does get to the point that one
just
gives up on doing or having anything special. I mean, really, does a virgin
hand-baked three-teired fancily frosted cake HAVE to have written on it
"Grandma and Grandpa's 50th Wedding Anniversary" in order for some impulsive
lout not to chop a big square out of it in the middle of the afternoon 'cause
he'd run out of microwave popcorn? That is an oppresive thing to have to
live
with, too. Because the net effect of that is that nice things don't happen
as
often. Like with your mother's lox.


But would you expect the kids to put up with looking at said cake if
they were NEVER going to be allowed to eat it?

Once in a while, one of us will bake something special to take to work,
or for some occassion outside the house. Most of the time, we try to
bake extra so that the folks who live here won't have to not even taste
it.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #19  
Old November 3rd 05, 02:06 PM
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:



I don't think that's at all the same thing as what we're talking about.
There
is a long way from being the *only* people to eat the good stuff (and, from
your
descriptions, enjoying in front of everyone) to want to be able to partake in
one's favorite foods hardly *at all*, and not want to see it has dissappeared
because our attention had been turned to running a household an earning a
living.


I know; I was explaining why I think I react so strongly (over react,
probably) to this sort of thing.


I know. But what you say should happen, below, doesn't leave much outlet.
Other than everything being offered in abundance. Or keeping private stashes.
Which really is the only solution in a household that expects everyone gets
everything anytime. If folks get jealous of private stashes, too, then one is
left with what I did when it was my turn to run for supplies after the first
pot-sticker incident: sit down and eat them before going back with the supplies


I react because of frustration with non-family shared living situations where
I'd have to stash in my room, and sometimes nice things couldn't happen. (And
related things, like the dismal choice one gets between living in squalor or
becoming housemaid.) Like, if I couln't bake just before taking the goodies to
an event, I couldn't bake, 'cause the goodies would be gone by time I left.
I've long thrown up my hands about it and deal with it, but I dont' think it's
exactly a virtue to be promoted, that one thing they get what they want or they
shoudln't even see it.




Heck, when I was a kid I can remember a couple of family gatherings
where the grownups got steak off the grill -- and the kids got hot dogs.
I don't mind eating hot dogs, but not while others are eating steak! My
parents would never do that -- they might offer us a choice -- but these
were events where someone else was providing the food, and we had better
manners than to challenge the situation.


Are you sure it wasn't simply because the kids by and large preferred the hot
dogs?


I'm sure that's what they told themselves; however, I found ways (at
other times) to make SURE my aunts and uncles knew how much I liked
steak, but still was not offered steak at barbeques; that was only for
the adults.


But there's the possibility that they hadn't planned for steaks all around when
the rest of the kids want some, just because you have it on *your* plate.
Possibly, it would have been different if you were the only kid.

You don't extend this to beer, do you?




Except for situations like a lunch room, I won't eat in front of other
people without offering them some of whatever I'm eating, and that
includes children.

My parents taught us that rule -- on the other hand, I didn't know my
mother liked lox until I was in my 20's. Apparently she craved them
when she was pregnant -- but there was no way she could afford for US to
find out we liked them, so she bought them and hid them behind the
vegetables . . .


Well, this is interesting. Would you say that your mother, in order not to
be
selfish, should have resolved that dilemma by self-denial?


No -- actually, I think it's pretty funny that I'd never tasted lox
until after I left home, and just assumed my mother didn't even know
what they were, and that I would be able to introduce HER to them.


It is pretty funny.

I don't think it's necessary to forgo things like that, necessarily --
but I would have thought it unreasonable if she'd put them in plain
sight, and told us that they were all for HER. As it was, what we
didn't know didn't hurt us. (We were pretty poor -- I know now that
there were a number of things she just never fed us, because she figured
they couldn't afford for us to find out we liked, say, shrimp or
lobster.)


Then that leaves the private stash option, but that's often a matter of how
successful one is at keeping things secret. (Pot stickers don't stash well...)


Similarly, I would think it unreasonable if we'd kept, say, coke in the
house (DH used to have a serious addiction to the stuff) and told the
kids that it was just for him.


You're talking about Coca-cola, right ;-)
So, what would you have DH do? In many households, he'd get two cases of coke.
He'd enjoy two cans one evening. Then he'd be off at work, out for the evening,
come home at 10 pm, reach in the fridge and - - no coke! So, is he to go
shopping every day? What? Them's that hang around at home get the riches?
Does that seem fair to you?

So he's stuck with:
1. Bottomless coke budget and shopping time - not practical
2. Private stash - may work, but folks may get ****ed about that, too
3. No coke

Many times in similar situations, #3 happens. Nobody gets cokes. Everyone
loses.

If people are reasonable and don't feel entitled, he can label one for himself,
and it can stay there for him.



I think the situation being discussed, and I've run into it mostly in roomate
situations (in my family of origin we *were* expected to keep hands off
goodies
without asking - truly, it can be done!) it does get to the point that one
just
gives up on doing or having anything special. I mean, really, does a virgin
hand-baked three-teired fancily frosted cake HAVE to have written on it
"Grandma and Grandpa's 50th Wedding Anniversary" in order for some impulsive
lout not to chop a big square out of it in the middle of the afternoon 'cause
he'd run out of microwave popcorn? That is an oppresive thing to have to
live
with, too. Because the net effect of that is that nice things don't happen
as
often. Like with your mother's lox.


But would you expect the kids to put up with looking at said cake if
they were NEVER going to be allowed to eat it?


SURE! Why NOT? What if it's a friend's anniversary, and the kids aren't
invited?

What's the principle behind this? That one should honor all the desires and
jelousies around one, and everyone around one should get whatever is yummy that
they see?

Since you're a person who is very empathic I think, I can see that you might
feel bad holding back. So - turn it around: do you think that *you* have the
right to get some of whatever you like that you might see?


Once in a while, one of us will bake something special to take to work,
or for some occassion outside the house. Most of the time, we try to
bake extra so that the folks who live here won't have to not even taste
it.


OK, so nothing gets baked unless there's double portions? Remember your
mother's lox. You could have had some, if she could be sure you'd respect that
it isn't usually for you! This all-sharing philosophy actually leads to loss.

Banty

  #20  
Old November 3rd 05, 07:00 PM
Dawn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Halloween candy


Banty wrote:
In article ,
dragonlady says...
Heck, when I was a kid I can remember a couple of family gatherings
where the grownups got steak off the grill -- and the kids got hot dogs.
I don't mind eating hot dogs, but not while others are eating steak! My
parents would never do that -- they might offer us a choice -- but these
were events where someone else was providing the food, and we had better
manners than to challenge the situation.


Are you sure it wasn't simply because the kids by and large preferred the hot
dogs?


I've done it when kids were very little (probably under 6) because the
kids tend to waste a very good piece of expensive meat. Kids don't eat
much in those types of situations IME. So you give them even a portion
of a good steak (which most kids don't like anyway) and it goes to
waste. Better to waste a cheap hot dog.

I don't think it's something that should be done with an older kid who
would genuinely prefer steak. I certainly wouldn't, say, offer lobster
to the adults but expect my 13 yo son to eat fish sticks (he doesn't
eat meat).

I don't see anything wrong with offerin very small children a
cheaper/more kid-friendly alternative in a group situation. I remember
my sister, who wanted to have kids at her wedding but didn't want to
pay $30 per plate for their dinners, offered young kids chicken nuggets
-- which they all loved and preferred to her gourmet meal for adults.

-Dawn

 




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