Have We Created A Monster? Mixed Bag/Please Help!

Our son is 15 weeks and a wonderful baby. Thanks to all of your advice and
support he is exclusively breastfed (can't believe I managed it- love it!) and
is healthy, thriving, and has a wonderful disposition.

Problem: NIghts! He suddenly now at 15 weeks is semi-waking at night,
thrashing, kicking etc. ALWAYS wanting the boob to be comforted. Don't think
it's gas...just restlessness. We have a family bed and love our situation but
are now thinking that it might be better if he could tranistion to a crib or
pack and play in our room. We are not sleeping well. At first I thought I might
not be making enough milk for him anymore which was why he always goes for the
boob. Then I dicredited this idea because during the day he is fine and feeds
every three hours or so. He also spits up a ton of milk at night whilst
sleeping making me think that in his quest for comfort at the breast he is
actually taking in TOO much milk and considering I don't wake him or me to burp
him, he can't handle it. What do you think? Then I thought that maybe my warm
skin next to his triggered him to automatically go for the boob so I wear a
t-shirt over my nursing bra now. To no avail. He burrows into my
boobs....Bottom Line: He can not go to sleep without my boob and when he
cries/thrashes etc it's the only thing that comforts him. This is a problem
because I work until 9 each night from home and I can't get upstairs to put him
to sleep until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant. BTW, what time
do you put your infants to sleep? I'd love for him to sleep from 7 0r 8 until
early the next morning but what with his dependence on me it seeems impossibe.

How do you get a baby to learn that he/she can get to sleep on his/her own? Our
son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in our arms. Even if I nurse
him to sleep and put him down in the crib or pack and play, he immediatley
wakes up and cries. Hence our love of the swing and co-sleeping. Will he
naturally outgrow this? We do not mind having him in with us for however long
it lasts however, we would like him to learn to nap in a crib and sleep without
my breasts.

ANy ideas? I'm feeling very frustrated.

thanks in advance,
lisa xxxx

"Zucca4" wrote in message
...
cries/thrashes etc it's the only thing that comforts him. This is a
problem
because I work until 9 each night from home and I can't get upstairs to
put him
to sleep until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant. BTW, what
time
do you put your infants to sleep?

DD is 4 weeks old. She is wide awake every evening. We put her to sleep at
midnight. That's when DH and I go to bed. She wakes up at about 6 am. We
wake up at about 6:30, so it all works out.

How do you get a baby to learn that he/she can get to sleep on his/her
own?

I always nursed DS to sleep until he was weaned. DD nurses to sleep, but
she will fall asleep on her own if I put her down awake.

Our
son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in our arms. Even if I
nurse
him to sleep and put him down in the crib or pack and play, he immediatley
wakes up and cries.

DS woke up whenever I put him down at that age. I just held him until he
was in a deeper sleep, about 20 minutes after he passes out.

Hence our love of the swing and co-sleeping. Will he
naturally outgrow this?

Yes. DS falls asleep completely on his own the minute he lays down without
our help. He did that soon after turning 2 yo.

We do not mind having him in with us for however long
it lasts however, we would like him to learn to nap in a crib and sleep
without
my breasts.

ANy ideas? I'm feeling very frustrated.

Try the crib. It might help. If it doesn't you could always go back to
what you're doing or try something else. With DS, going from bassinet to
crib, or crib in our room to crib in his room, or crib to mattress on the
floor always helped his sleep. Basically, when something's not working or
stops working, it might be time for a change. It doesn't have to be
permanent. You can always go back.

"Zucca4" wrote in message
...
Our son is 15 weeks and a wonderful baby. Thanks to all of your advice and
support he is exclusively breastfed (can't believe I managed it- love it!)
and
is healthy, thriving, and has a wonderful disposition.

Problem: NIghts! He suddenly now at 15 weeks is semi-waking at night,
thrashing, kicking etc. ALWAYS wanting the boob to be comforted. Don't
think
it's gas...just restlessness. We have a family bed and love our situation
but
are now thinking that it might be better if he could tranistion to a crib
or
pack and play in our room. We are not sleeping well. At first I thought I
might
not be making enough milk for him anymore which was why he always goes for
the
boob. Then I dicredited this idea because during the day he is fine and
feeds
every three hours or so. He also spits up a ton of milk at night whilst
sleeping making me think that in his quest for comfort at the breast he is
actually taking in TOO much milk and considering I don't wake him or me to
burp
him, he can't handle it. What do you think? Then I thought that maybe my
warm
skin next to his triggered him to automatically go for the boob so I wear
a
t-shirt over my nursing bra now. To no avail. He burrows into my
boobs....Bottom Line: He can not go to sleep without my boob and when he
cries/thrashes etc it's the only thing that comforts him. This is a
problem
because I work until 9 each night from home and I can't get upstairs to
put him
to sleep until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant. BTW, what
time
do you put your infants to sleep? I'd love for him to sleep from 7 0r 8
until
early the next morning but what with his dependence on me it seeems
impossibe.

How do you get a baby to learn that he/she can get to sleep on his/her
own? Our
son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in our arms. Even if I
nurse
him to sleep and put him down in the crib or pack and play, he immediatley
wakes up and cries. Hence our love of the swing and co-sleeping. Will he
naturally outgrow this? We do not mind having him in with us for however
long
it lasts however, we would like him to learn to nap in a crib and sleep
without
my breasts.

ANy ideas? I'm feeling very frustrated.

thanks in advance,
lisa xxxx


I have only a tad of experience here -- but before you try separating him
from the family bed I would try a night or two of having DH comfort him in
the family bed, meaning, when he wakes up, if it hasn't been 2.5-3 hours,
just *get out of the bed* and force DS to take comfort from DH. But when he
wakes up and is probably actually hungry, you will be there.

DD 4.5 mos will often fuss when she wakes up at 4:30 (after feeding at 3:30,
say) and I'm not there -- but DH has finally learned to pull her closer to
him and comfort her. IT is so nice to return from my trip to the
kitchen/computer and crawl into bed to find them sleeping peacefully with
each other.

-- Dagny

"Zucca4" wrote in message
snip
How do you get a baby to learn that he/she can get to sleep on his/her
own? Our
son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in our arms. Even if I
nurse
him to sleep and put him down in the crib or pack and play, he immediatley
wakes up and cries. Hence our love of the swing and co-sleeping. Will he
naturally outgrow this? We do not mind having him in with us for however
long
it lasts however, we would like him to learn to nap in a crib and sleep
without
my breasts.

I have always considered my DS to be a very good sleeper and feel lucky
about that, so my advice may not be helpful (my DS really *likes* his sleep
and resists being awakened before he is ready and when he is ready, wakes up
smiling! He does nurse several times in the night, but without ever opening
his eyes or really waking--I'm happy with this). Anyway, what works well for
us and what I would suggest for you, is trying to lie down with him and
nurse him to sleep in your bed. After he has nursed his fill and is deeply
asleep (which for my 6 month old DS takes about 15 minutes, but it may be
longer for you, since your DS is younger), you get up. IME, this works tons
better than trying to put down a sleeping baby because he doesn't get
jostled or disturbed out of his deep sleep at all. I kind of tuck the
blankets in next to him to keep him feeling secured and sometimes I put a
pillow by him so if his arm flings out he will touch something and feel
secure. I make sure to put the pillow lower than the level of his face and
use only light blankets, but even so, some people will not feel comfortable
leaving a pillow so close to a baby like that.

Prior to this nursing-him-to-sleep-while-lying-with-him method, DS slept
best during the day while in the sling (he has always slept well at night).
Then, I discovered that he did nap at predictable times and if I would only
lie down with him at those times, instead of trying to "wear him down" in
the sling as recommended by Sears after he had dropped off to sleep, it was
very easy to get him snoozing and then make my "escape"!

I don't mind at all when DS needs to nurse to sleep (my DH can also put him
to sleep in about 15 minutes by carrying him cradled in his arms in a
certain way). My DS is kind of a temperamental nurser and does not always
want to nurse to sleep and though I have occasionally prayed for a baby that
would just nurse to sleep like "everyone else's" I feel glad that we have
developed other ways of getting him to sleep without nursing. There have
been times when DH is the only one who can put him to sleep effectively at
night (DS does almost always nurse to sleep for naps). If he does go to
sleep while being cradled in our arms instead of nursing, what works best
for us is to *lie down* while still holding him, instead of trying to put
him down away from us. Then, after he is settled and secure, we can get back
up. I figure that everyone has "sleep associations" (for grown ups it is
things like pillows and blankets and the lights being shut off) and I don't
mind if nursing is DS's association need for some time. It is guaranteed not
to last forever. My observation has been that little kids need some kind of
sleep ritual (nursing, back rubbing, etc.) until they are over 3 years old
and then they just start going to sleep on their own. My sibs and I were all
comforted to sleep in some manner (first nursing and then later just having
one parent lie down with us until we went to sleep) until we were approx. 3
years old. All of us have *excellent* sleep habits now. Never any insomnia,
fall asleep shortly after lying down, etc. I even slept like a log while I
was pregnant!

Oh yeah, you also mentioned when to put your baby to bed for the night. My
DS usually goes to sleep at about 9:00 and I just go to bed with him. I find
we have better sleep harmony if I do that and I sleep much more soundly.
Also, I like to maximize my time spent sleeping at night and when we go to
sleep at 9:00, he usually wakes up for the day at 7:30 or 8:00 in the
morning. If I have other things I need to do, I nurse him down to sleep at
8:30 or so and then get back up and 9:00 to do my other things.

Anyway, sorry for a bit of a ramble! I hope you find a happy balance
sometime soon!

--
Em
mama to L-baby, almost 6 months

My baby naps, goes to sleep at 9 and wakes up again around 11, I nurse her
to sleep and if Im still awake put her \
in the bassinet next to me, if not she sleeps on my chest. Lately, she has
been getting tossed to the middle of the bed.
But she will sleep in the bassinet.
I also put her to sleep by walking her and patting her on my shoulder. Then
when I put her down I keep patting.
Shes about 18 weeks now.

"Zucca4" wrote in message
...
Our son is 15 weeks and a wonderful baby. Thanks to all of your advice and
support he is exclusively breastfed (can't believe I managed it- love it!)
and
is healthy, thriving, and has a wonderful disposition.

Problem: NIghts! He suddenly now at 15 weeks is semi-waking at night,
thrashing, kicking etc. ALWAYS wanting the boob to be comforted. Don't
think
it's gas...just restlessness. We have a family bed and love our situation
but
are now thinking that it might be better if he could tranistion to a crib
or
pack and play in our room. We are not sleeping well. At first I thought I
might
not be making enough milk for him anymore which was why he always goes for
the
boob. Then I dicredited this idea because during the day he is fine and
feeds
every three hours or so. He also spits up a ton of milk at night whilst
sleeping making me think that in his quest for comfort at the breast he is
actually taking in TOO much milk and considering I don't wake him or me to
burp
him, he can't handle it. What do you think? Then I thought that maybe my
warm
skin next to his triggered him to automatically go for the boob so I wear
a
t-shirt over my nursing bra now. To no avail. He burrows into my
boobs....Bottom Line: He can not go to sleep without my boob and when he
cries/thrashes etc it's the only thing that comforts him. This is a
problem
because I work until 9 each night from home and I can't get upstairs to
put him
to sleep until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant. BTW, what
time
do you put your infants to sleep? I'd love for him to sleep from 7 0r 8
until
early the next morning but what with his dependence on me it seeems
impossibe.

How do you get a baby to learn that he/she can get to sleep on his/her
own? Our
son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in our arms. Even if I
nurse
him to sleep and put him down in the crib or pack and play, he immediatley
wakes up and cries. Hence our love of the swing and co-sleeping. Will he
naturally outgrow this? We do not mind having him in with us for however
long
it lasts however, we would like him to learn to nap in a crib and sleep
without
my breasts.

ANy ideas? I'm feeling very frustrated.

thanks in advance,
lisa xxxx

Zucca4 wrote:

Problem: NIghts! He suddenly now at 15 weeks is semi-waking at night,
thrashing, kicking etc. ALWAYS wanting the boob to be comforted.
Don't think it's gas...just restlessness.

It's pretty typically the age when their previously wonderful sleep patterns
start being restless and fitful. Probably attributable to early teething,
growth spurt, or just plain growing and changing.

This is a problem because I work until
9 each night from home and I can't get upstairs to put him to sleep
until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant.

Personally, I don't think there's any reason anyone HAS to go to bed at a
certain time. My DS has always been a night owl and late sleeper; since I'm
the same way, I've always allowed him to stay up later than it seems his
peers do. We don't have to get up early in the morning for anything, so it
works perfectly well for us.

BTW, what time
do you put your infants to sleep? I'd love for him to sleep from 7 0r
8 until early the next morning but what with his dependence on me it
seeems impossibe.

Sleeping through the night is medically defined for an infant as 5
consecutive hours. Expecting a baby under a year to sleep for 8-9 hours
seems a bit futile; it might happen and yay if it does, but if you're
expecting it, I think you're setting yourself up for frustration!


How do you get a baby to learn that he/she can get to sleep on
his/her own?

Create other sleep associations. But it seems that this doesn't work well
until the baby is considerably older - like closer to a year.

Our son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in
our arms. Even if I nurse him to sleep and put him down in the crib
or pack and play, he immediatley wakes up and cries.

Are you waiting until he is truly asleep and floppy-limbed to put him down?

Something that's always helped my son, the light sleeper, is a white noise
machine. They're available all over the place - mine's made by Homedics -
and I have it set to ocean sounds. He's always slept longer stretches when
it's on.


--
tristyn
www.tristyn.net

"iphigenia" wrote in message ...
Zucca4 wrote:
This is a problem because I work until
9 each night from home and I can't get upstairs to put him to sleep
until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant.

Personally, I don't think there's any reason anyone HAS to go to bed at a
certain time. My DS has always been a night owl and late sleeper; since I'm
the same way, I've always allowed him to stay up later than it seems his
peers do. We don't have to get up early in the morning for anything, so it
works perfectly well for us.

Agreed - if you can get a routine that works for your family, there's
no particular reason for a certain bedtime.


Our son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in
our arms. Even if I nurse him to sleep and put him down in the crib
or pack and play, he immediatley wakes up and cries.

Are you waiting until he is truly asleep and floppy-limbed to put him down?

Additionally, here are some tips for putting down a sleeping baby.
It's not a foolproof method, but it's worked for me better than many
other things! ;-) (I'm pretty sure I found this originally on Dr.
Sears' website, but last time I looked for it, I couldn't find it.)

Anyhow...first, wait until baby is very sound asleep, and floppy.
This generally takes about 20 minutes - that seems long, until you
have to repeat it because you didn't wait long enough! ;-)

Then, put baby down in crib (or other location), but don't immediately
let go. Keep your hands on the baby for about a minute or so.
Gradually lift up one hand. If baby stirs, put the hand back down.
Gradually lift the other hand, and stand back up slowly. (repeat as
needed if baby stirs).

It also helps if the surface you are putting the baby on is the same
temperature as the baby - no cold sheets. I like flannel for that
reason, but sometimes have resorted to holding the baby on a receiving
blanket and then putting them down together. A sleep sack would have
the same effect, I assume.

HTH,
Irene
mom to Thomas 7/01
& Marcus or Gwendolyn EDD 4/10/04

"Irene" wrote in message
om...
"iphigenia" wrote in message
...
Zucca4 wrote:
This is a problem because I work until
9 each night from home and I can't get upstairs to put him to sleep
until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant.

Personally, I don't think there's any reason anyone HAS to go to bed at
a
certain time. My DS has always been a night owl and late sleeper; since
I'm
the same way, I've always allowed him to stay up later than it seems his
peers do. We don't have to get up early in the morning for anything, so
it
works perfectly well for us.

Agreed - if you can get a routine that works for your family, there's
no particular reason for a certain bedtime.


Our son only sleeps in his swings or attached to us, in
our arms. Even if I nurse him to sleep and put him down in the crib
or pack and play, he immediatley wakes up and cries.

Are you waiting until he is truly asleep and floppy-limbed to put him
down?

Additionally, here are some tips for putting down a sleeping baby.
It's not a foolproof method, but it's worked for me better than many
other things! ;-) (I'm pretty sure I found this originally on Dr.
Sears' website, but last time I looked for it, I couldn't find it.)

Anyhow...first, wait until baby is very sound asleep, and floppy.
This generally takes about 20 minutes - that seems long, until you
have to repeat it because you didn't wait long enough! ;-)

Then, put baby down in crib (or other location), but don't immediately
let go. Keep your hands on the baby for about a minute or so.
Gradually lift up one hand. If baby stirs, put the hand back down.
Gradually lift the other hand, and stand back up slowly. (repeat as
needed if baby stirs).

It also helps if the surface you are putting the baby on is the same
temperature as the baby - no cold sheets. I like flannel for that
reason, but sometimes have resorted to holding the baby on a receiving
blanket and then putting them down together. A sleep sack would have
the same effect, I assume.


I do that, use a blanket so I can lower the baby and she remains on the same
surface
it makes it less obvious when I slip my hands from beneath her. Hodling the
hand ont he baby's
tummy after you put her down keeps her from noticing so much that she isnt
lying against you.

HTH,
Irene
mom to Thomas 7/01
& Marcus or Gwendolyn EDD 4/10/04

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:35:20 -0700, "nina"
wrote:
I do that, use a blanket so I can lower the baby and she remains on the same
surfaceit makes it less obvious when I slip my hands from beneath her. Hodling the
hand ont he baby'stummy after you put her down keeps her from noticing so much that she isnt
lying against you.

I always made sure to use a blanket under my daughters also. With my
last daughter, lots of times if she started to stir when I put her
down I could put my hands firmly on her chest or arms (when her arms
were by her sides) and she'd stop and go right back to sleep.
Marie

Zucca4 wrote:

Problem: NIghts! He suddenly now at 15 weeks is semi-waking at night,
thrashing, kicking etc. ALWAYS wanting the boob to be comforted. Don't think
it's gas...just restlessness. We have a family bed and love our situation but
are now thinking that it might be better if he could tranistion to a crib or
pack and play in our room. We are not sleeping well. At first I thought I might

Heh, welcome to the downside of nursing. I learned the lesson with our first
(and only) son. It's very good to nurse, it's ok to sleep with them but
they have to learn to soothe themselves at some point. I think self soothing
can go hand in hand with attachment parenting which many people don't agree
with.

He's 15 weeks so it's easier to break these habits right now. If you like
sleeping with him then continue to do so but help him to soothe himself.
Pick up the 'No Cry No Sleep Solution' and follow some of her advice.

sleeping making me think that in his quest for comfort at the breast he is
actually taking in TOO much milk and considering I don't wake him or me to burp
him, he can't handle it. What do you think? Then I thought that maybe my warm

Could it be reflux? We covered up some of the symptoms of reflux because we
were co-sleeping. We just assumed he needed to be calmed a bit. Prevacid
fixed that.

to sleep until about 11 which seems soooooo late for an infant. BTW, what time
do you put your infants to sleep? I'd love for him to sleep from 7 0r 8 until
early the next morning but what with his dependence on me it seeems impossibe.

Do some google research on this. I can tell you right now at 9 months we have
him sleep between 7pm to 7am and two 1hr+ naps during the day. I could not
BELIEVE that my child would ever sleep like this and thought it was BS. But
our son has slowly learned to soothe himself and to sleep on his own and he's
finally living up to the phrase "sleeps like a baby".

naturally outgrow this? We do not mind having him in with us for however long
it lasts however, we would like him to learn to nap in a crib and sleep without
my breasts.
ANy ideas? I'm feeling very frustrated.

There are dozens of different ways to do this. Tracy Hogg has some good ideas on
this. You basically pick up the baby, pat and sush them and put them down semi-awake.
Eventually they give up and fall asleep. If this isn't working then keep patting
and sushing them while you are putting them down and while they are falling asleep.

Other people find that giving them another prop (like rocking them or walking them)
helps them to fall asleep better and that they then break them of this prop.

Others try the above and let their babies cry a bit.

I think the one thing each method has in common that somehow or another your baby
falls asleep because they're tired and give up. Some are obviously more gentle
than others.

Good LUCK.