CHALLENGES TO KANE AND RON THEY IGNORED

"Doan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, krp wrote:

"0:-" wrote in message
...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.

Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on
you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of
emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that
factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."

Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.

You see on the PLANET KANE "NOT" means "MAYBE" or "SOMETIMES" or some other
fuzzy definition.

"0:-" wrote in message
...
Doan wrote:
I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on
you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of
emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that
factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."
Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

All reactions to spanking, whether more or less misbehavior, whether more
or less emotional support. Including where the outcomes were not in the
context of high levels of emotional support.

That's an item in the pattern.

In fact, you a take any part of the paragraph and apply it the same way.

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.

Why would the sentence right afterward say that "this pattern" which would
include the not in the context of high emotional support statement, not
apply to it?

The "not" statement applies to the pattern that held.


As I predicted ACCURATELY AGAIN on PLANET KANE the word "NOT" has a
different meaning than in the rest of the Galaxy!

It means YES!!!!

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, krp wrote:

"0:-" wrote in message ...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."
Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.

Doan

Go back and take a high school writing course. They will tell you that
the last sentence in a paragraph supports and explains the paragraph, in
good writing.

The writing was good. The statement that, "This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups," also applies to "Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support."

Isolating one phrase and claiming the conclusion applied only to it is
contextual corruption, and since I'm sure you know better, I have to
concluded you are deliberately misleading...that's lying.

Show how it would not.

Kane


Doan

Now back to the PROOF that spanking IN AND EXCLUSIVELY OF ITSELF "CAUSES" aggression in Children????


More on the examination of the Gunnoe and Marriner study and the
question of why it appeared that AA children showed reductions in
fighting and aggression after spanking.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...113/5/1321.pdf


2.3-times greater risk of maternal ratings of behavior
problems exceeding the 90th percentile 4 years
later (0.159 vs 0.068). Among Hispanic and African
American children, spanking frequency before age 2
was not consistently associated with child behavior 3
years later, although some results (shown in Fig 2)
were suggestive of a positive association in these
families.
These associations are consistent with those reported
in previous studies of European American
and African American children older than 2. Deater-
Deckard et al43 reported that spanking was positively
correlated with child externalizing behaviors
in subsequent years among European American children
but was not significantly correlated with behavior
problems among African American children.
Gunnoe and Mariner45 reported that spanking frequency
at ages 5 to 11 was significantly associated
with an increase in fighting 5 years later among
European American children but was also significantly
related to a decrease in fighting among African
American children. Finally, McLeod et al,46 who
also used data from the NLSY-MC, reported that
spanking frequency at ages 4 and above predicted
significantly greater antisocial behavior among European
Americans 2 years later, but the association
was not statistically significant among African Americans.
Several possible explanations for these differences
in association have been proposed.4,44 Spanking is
thought to have greater “normative acceptance” in
African American families,7,52,53 which could mean
that African American children and parents are relatively
less likely to perceive spanking as harsh or
unfair. Alternatively, in white non-Hispanic communities—
where spanking is used less frequently and
where its use is thought to be more stigmatizing—
frequent spanking before age 2 could be associated
with other factors that indicate relatively greater developmental
risk, such as high parent stress. Both
interpretations are consistent with our finding
(shown in Fig 1) that compared with African American
and Hispanic families, child behavior problems
that require a parent-teacher meeting were predicted
to be relatively less common in white non-Hispanic
families when spanking before age 2 was infrequent,
whereas the relative ordering was the reverse in
families in which spanking was relatively frequent.
However, in predictions of risk for behavior problem
ratings above the 90th percentile (Fig 2), African
American children were predicted to be at greater
risk at all spanking frequencies, suggesting that in
both groups, more frequent spanking was associated
with greater behavioral risk.

krp wrote:
"0:-" wrote in message
news:f8OdnePrG5osZCLYnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@scnresearch. com...

Funny how those newsgroup addies will slip away from yah, idnit?
0;}

Huh?

QUOTE AND EMPHASIS SNIPPED
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..
Okay.

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...
Note.
"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
I don't see those parts highlighted that you mentioned you were going
to do.
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -
Okay. Did you note me making other claims?
GROAN

Ask for help when you've fallen, Ken.

Oh ****, is this the "CORELATIUON AND CAUSATION" are the same thing
argument again Kane?

The issue is "SPANKING CAUSES AGGRESSION IN KIDS" or it is THE cause
for "BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS" in kids.

Really? The study wasn't about that. And we are looking at that study
together. It said that they found that children that were spanked showed
more aggression.

Kane the ORIGINAL claim was that SPANKING CAUSES AGGRESSION IN KIDS!
That was the SUBJECT HEADER!

You seem to keep dropping the reference to cross culture, Ken.

And that the title of the article isn't the title of the study.

Now it isn't. I find it interesting trying to figure out just exactly WHAT
the hell you are claiming. It keeps changing. EVERY DAY!

Actually you keep changing it and I keep dragging you back to the original.

Kane you remind me of the little groundhog game in the Chuckee Cheese
pizza places. You put your quarter in and take the padded mallet and when
the groundhog sticks his head up you whack it down and then it pops up in
another hole, and this goes on until your quarter is used up. I have LOVED
the debate with you on both spanking and the SAC Dolls. You have managed to
take EVERY frigging side of both issues more than once and some sides I
didn't know existed.

No I haven't. I have stated my position clearly, and you have
continually lied about it and re framed, or simply changed my words.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to resolve any debate with you because you will NEVER keep
the same side for two posts in a row. That's your debate style.

No it isn't. You are referring to my looking at more than one point
about an issue. If debate were limited to a single point about an issue
it would stop in the first exchange.

And you are a master at dodging by Strawman, Red Herring, Goal Post
Moving, and simple lying, Ken. Or at least and eager acolyte.

Either the SAC Dolls are accurate indicators of abuse or they are not.

Ah, would that life were so simple. When circumstances are all fixed,
one can claim that. They aren't. Real life is filled with variables, a
lot of them uncontrollable. Think about all the issues.

I
say not.

Which makes you wrong unless you can create a research model that does
not allow for ethics in research.

You say they are,

Actually you are now lying through your teeth or out your ass, same
difference.

I have repeated stated I do NOT accept SAC dolls for the purpose of
determining IF abuse has or has NOT occurred. And I've stated I would
like to see more research into, what to me personally and professional,
I consider a possible valid use....to assist in interviewing KNOWN
victims of sexual abuse to describe HOW they were abused.

Why are you lying about this, Ken?

they aren't,

I made NO such claim, Ken. You are lying. In fact I agreed with you that
they were NOT acceptable for the purpose of determination. And I
objected to them being used for any purpose (other than teaching) for
younger children.

You are lying, Ken.

and they MIGHT be but the jury is
out etc etc etc etc.. On Spanking you have NO clue as to what correlation is
or causation.

The hell I don't.

You have a unique inability to understand that the statement
"Spanking LEADS TO aggression in Children" is a declarative sentence ONLY in
causation.

Yep. And where did you see that sentence? And did the article not point
you to the research report with the researchers actual Title on it?

The authors of the article, while accurate in the body of their
narrative drawn from the news report of the publication source for the
research report were less than scrupulous with the title.

The fact you won't walk away from it now that I had said, to your
argument, "Okay, let's move too the substance of the report from the
researchers," indicates to me you are afraid to deal with that.

It means "spanking CAUSES aggression in children."

I said it before, I'll say it again. Okay.

It is NOT and
not matter how you beat the walls mean it is a correlative statement.

Okay.

That
would be "aggression in child is related to spanking."

Okay, and a sloppy but fairly accurate representation of what the
researchers found. They are not bound to the sloppy title of a review of
their report.

or "It appears there
is some relation between spanking and aggression in children."

Okay.

Are you ready to deal with the actual report, rather than a secondary
source that had a less than accurate title to their own article?

That's before we even GET TO the rest of the premise of that article.
With you we play "FUZZY DEFINITIONS" of Planet Kane!

Nope. I have said okay to you before, and requested we move to the
actual report as published by the researchers.

You seem terrible reluctant to go there.

Either buy the rights to read the report, or have Doan send you a copy
(he would be misappropriating the authors work of course, since it is
for sale to one person.. and his copy, even if he can get it for free is
not legally up for public unpaid distribution.)

As I recall this is one of those 30 day 'rentals' that close on the date
the rental ends.

Or would you like to just discuss the report of the research?

I have, in another thread, by the way, posted some research on the claim
that spanking is related to aggression including the researchers use of
more declarative language.

I think you should read my posts to Doan and have a little peek yourself.

As for all this bull**** dodging, Ken, most of it is to stay as far away
as possible from responding to what I keep asking and you keep dodging.

You made a claim that there was evidence that failure to spank children
left them at risk of sociopathy outcomes.

No comment. No response. Just dodges.

All the rest of this crap you spew is to avoid admitting you lied.

0,]

"0:-" wrote in message
news:fMWdnW0iPO6UXl3YnZ2dnUVZ_vHinZ2d@scnresearch. com...
Funny how those newsgroup addies will slip away from yah, idnit?
0;}

Huh?

QUOTE AND EMPHASIS SNIPPED
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the
relevant parts..
Okay.

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking
and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...
Note.
"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context
of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
I don't see those parts highlighted that you mentioned you were going
to do.
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -
Okay. Did you note me making other claims?
GROAN

Ask for help when you've fallen, Ken.

Oh ****, is this the "CORELATIUON AND CAUSATION" are the same thing
argument again Kane?

The issue is "SPANKING CAUSES AGGRESSION IN KIDS" or it is THE cause
for "BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS" in kids.

Really? The study wasn't about that. And we are looking at that study
together. It said that they found that children that were spanked showed
more aggression.

Kane the ORIGINAL claim was that SPANKING CAUSES AGGRESSION IN KIDS!
That was the SUBJECT HEADER!

You seem to keep dropping the reference to cross culture, Ken.

Kane you seem NOT to understand that IF any other factor modifies the
results it is NOT the spanking that does it, at least not by itself.

krp wrote:
"Doan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, krp wrote:

"0:-" wrote in message
...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on
you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of
emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that
factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."
Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.

You see on the PLANET KANE "NOT" means "MAYBE" or "SOMETIMES" or some other
fuzzy definition.

In Bizzaro world, where you two hang, claiming that NOT would apply to
one set and not the other of the racial-ethnic groups, is proof you are
either mentally incompetent or liars.

One of you is one, the other the other.

But not if there is higher emotional support by your papa, me.

Now tell me, how did my second statement single one of you out?

The subject of the research was not to show IF aggression occurred, but
when it did did it show one group exhibiting a difference than the others.

No such difference occurred.

Keep making us laugh.

0;-]

"0:-" wrote in message
...
I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on
you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking
and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context
of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the
relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking
and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context
of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of
emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that
factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."
Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.

You see on the PLANET KANE "NOT" means "MAYBE" or "SOMETIMES" or some
other fuzzy definition.

In Bizzaro world, where you two hang, claiming that NOT would apply to one
set and not the other of the racial-ethnic groups, is proof you are either
mentally incompetent or liars.


How many stars in your universe Kane? NOT has a concrete meaning to the
rest of us, to you it is a moving object.

krp wrote:
"0:-" wrote in message
...
Doan wrote:
I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on
you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of
emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that
factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."
Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?
All reactions to spanking, whether more or less misbehavior, whether more
or less emotional support. Including where the outcomes were not in the
context of high levels of emotional support.

That's an item in the pattern.

In fact, you a take any part of the paragraph and apply it the same way.

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.
Why would the sentence right afterward say that "this pattern" which would
include the not in the context of high emotional support statement, not
apply to it?

The "not" statement applies to the pattern that held.


As I predicted ACCURATELY AGAIN on PLANET KANE the word "NOT" has a
different meaning than in the rest of the Galaxy!

It means YES!!!!

It means "NOT" applied to all three groups, thus supporting AA children
did not differ from the other two groups in their response to spanking
with high maternal emotional support, or low maternal emotional support.

If some was true for one, it was for all. If something was NOT true for
one then it was not true for the others as well. No separating out one
group and claiming it showed different responses under ANY circumstance
was claimed by the report of the study.

Stop lying Ken. You can't possible be this stupid....oh, wait, it's Ken
Pangborn isn't it now?

R R R R R R R R R R R RRRR

Just how much ass kicking are you looking for Ken?

Or is disruption, Doan's goal, your goal too?

Now, as to that issue of evidence that non-spanked children have
'sociopathy.' R R R R

You're going to dodge that forever, aren't you, Ken?

krp wrote:
"0:-" wrote in message
...
I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on
you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking
and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context
of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the
relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking
and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level
of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking
was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context
of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of
emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that
factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."
Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.
You see on the PLANET KANE "NOT" means "MAYBE" or "SOMETIMES" or some
other fuzzy definition.
In Bizzaro world, where you two hang, claiming that NOT would apply to one
set and not the other of the racial-ethnic groups, is proof you are either
mentally incompetent or liars.


How many stars in your universe Kane? NOT has a concrete meaning to the
rest of us, to you it is a moving object.

And what did it mean to you, so concretely, in relationship to Doan's
claim that AA children respond differently than the other children who
are not AA?

Please be specific and show your logic and your work product.

And if you have a moment, would you point me to that evidence you claim
shows that children that are not spanked are at risk of developing
'sociopathy.'

Could it be you are waiting for me to forget and quit asking?

And can I expect you to erase this in your reply?

0;-]

"0:-" wrote in message
news:mcqdnaN4VIJESV3YnZ2dnUVZ_o7inZ2d@scnresearch. com...


The place where it said *NOT*.

You see on the PLANET KANE "NOT" means "MAYBE" or "SOMETIMES" or some
other fuzzy definition.

In Bizzaro world, where you two hang, claiming that NOT would apply to
one set and not the other of the racial-ethnic groups, is proof you are
either mentally incompetent or liars.

How many stars in your universe Kane? NOT has a concrete meaning to the
rest of us, to you it is a moving object.

And what did it mean to you, so concretely, in relationship to Doan's
claim that AA children respond differently than the other children who are
not AA?

The meaning of the word "NOT" is specific Kane. It states a negative. Not a
positive or something in between OR BOTH a positive and negative. It has a
literal meaning EXCEPT on Planet Kane where it can mean absolutely ANYTHING
at all!