Friendship problem for my 9 year old

Hello all,

Hope you all can come up with some good advice on this one.

My 9 year old has had a friendship with a troubled girl since
Kindergarten. This little girl's family is a mess and has now reached
a pivotal point for me.

In kindergarten, my child and this friend became close, and it was a
deceit friendship. As time rolled on I noticed a change in my
daughter. She was very confident in herself, then not so much. When
I talked with her about it she told me of this little girl and how she
would play with my daughter then on-a-dime change tactics and tell her
she was not her friend anymore. It was a typical *kids are mean*
scenario.

When I met her mom on occasion during drop offs, etc., she started to
tell me of her problems, not the girl's, but her own. She was a
recovering drug addicted/alcohol abuser. She had done some crazy
things in her life, before and after having her kids. The husband was
in and out of the picture, with the same problems, and had done a lot
of jail time.

I didn't want to dissolve the friendship between the girls and was
hoping the mom would stay recovered and things would be fine.

During this time I would have the little girl over every now and then
and it always ended up in fights. I started getting calls from her
mom if I could pick-up her daughter and bring her home, or she was
having a bad day and could her 2 daughters stay over, because she
needed a break. And a few times asked for money.

The mom did not stay recovered and you could see the results in her
daughter. She would become very mean toward my daughter on occasion.
My response was for my daughter to walk away during these times and to
make some new friends to play with when this happened.

By the end second grade my daughter was a mess with the taunts and
name calling this girl was giving her. I said it was time to cut ties
for awhile.

Third grade, which I think is a hard year, my daughter has turned some
corners, made some good friends, and gained some confidence back. Of
course, she gets mean looks and confrontations every once in awhile
from this little girl, but she took the high road, and I am proud of
her.

The last few weeks, this little girl has tried to become friends again
with my daughter. My daughter is very wary of doing this. And sure
enough the, *You are a brat, you are bossy, don't be a know-it-all,
why do you like HER, etc.* has started again. So once again I told my
daughter, it is just not a good relationship, to be polite, but back
off and hang around her other friends.

I received a call yesterday, from little girls mom, telling me my
daughter had said she was not allowed to play with her daughter
anymore. I told her that I felt they were just not seeing eye to eye
on things and needed another break. She said she understood and had
told her daughter it didn't mean they would not see each other over
the summer or talk on the phone.

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.

So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?

Hope some of you stayed with me. I know I wrote a lot. Just trying
to give you the big picture.

Thanks,
Vickie

Vickie wrote:
Hello all,

Hope you all can come up with some good advice on this one.

My 9 year old has had a friendship with a troubled girl since
Kindergarten. This little girl's family is a mess and has now reached
a pivotal point for me.

In kindergarten, my child and this friend became close, and it was a
deceit friendship. As time rolled on I noticed a change in my
daughter. She was very confident in herself, then not so much. When
I talked with her about it she told me of this little girl and how she
would play with my daughter then on-a-dime change tactics and tell her
she was not her friend anymore. It was a typical *kids are mean*
scenario.

When I met her mom on occasion during drop offs, etc., she started to
tell me of her problems, not the girl's, but her own. She was a
recovering drug addicted/alcohol abuser. She had done some crazy
things in her life, before and after having her kids. The husband was
in and out of the picture, with the same problems, and had done a lot
of jail time.

I didn't want to dissolve the friendship between the girls and was
hoping the mom would stay recovered and things would be fine.

During this time I would have the little girl over every now and then
and it always ended up in fights. I started getting calls from her
mom if I could pick-up her daughter and bring her home, or she was
having a bad day and could her 2 daughters stay over, because she
needed a break. And a few times asked for money.

The mom did not stay recovered and you could see the results in her
daughter. She would become very mean toward my daughter on occasion.
My response was for my daughter to walk away during these times and to
make some new friends to play with when this happened.

By the end second grade my daughter was a mess with the taunts and
name calling this girl was giving her. I said it was time to cut ties
for awhile.

Third grade, which I think is a hard year, my daughter has turned some
corners, made some good friends, and gained some confidence back. Of
course, she gets mean looks and confrontations every once in awhile
from this little girl, but she took the high road, and I am proud of
her.

The last few weeks, this little girl has tried to become friends again
with my daughter. My daughter is very wary of doing this. And sure
enough the, *You are a brat, you are bossy, don't be a know-it-all,
why do you like HER, etc.* has started again. So once again I told my
daughter, it is just not a good relationship, to be polite, but back
off and hang around her other friends.

I received a call yesterday, from little girls mom, telling me my
daughter had said she was not allowed to play with her daughter
anymore. I told her that I felt they were just not seeing eye to eye
on things and needed another break. She said she understood and had
told her daughter it didn't mean they would not see each other over
the summer or talk on the phone.

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.

So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?

Hope some of you stayed with me. I know I wrote a lot. Just trying
to give you the big picture.

Thanks,
Vickie

I think what is going on here is that the girl is testing your daughter.
She is scared that your daughter will back away or stop acting like
her friend. Considering all the stuff she has had to put up with, I
don't blame her. So, basically, she is acting normally for 9-year old
girl who has had a lot of relationship problems with her mom, her dad
and kids at school. You would too if you had all the issues she does.

It's not your job or your daughter's job to provide counseling for
another person's daughter. That is essentially what she is asking you to do.

Part of me is saying that the girl will be in big trouble if someone
doesn't step in and help her. Obviously, the mother is not doing it. You
might be the only one who will be able to help.

Part of me is saying that if you get more involved, you'll only set up
yourself and your daughter for more heartache. And you probably won't
make a difference.

I think I would make a two-part plan. I would call child protective
services or what state or local agency protects kids, and fill them in.
They may be able to step in and help. It's their job, not yours.
Whatever, happens, end of part 1.

And I would get a backbone and say that you're not going to let girl see
your daughter until the girl and her sister (and maybe the mother, too)
get into counseling.

If that happens, I would be expecting a lot of acting out when she gets
to your home. She is going to test her welcome very much. However, once
she knows that she is truly welcome, she may stop acting out so much and
have much better behavior.

Whether you want to cave in and the girl see your daughter if she
doesn't get counseling is up to you to decide later.

These are just my thoughts.

Jeff

I have to agree with Jeff. There's very little you really can do.
You might want to also talk to the childrens teacher and see what advice
s/he has to offer, and maybe the teacher can then either talk to the
mother and suggest to her she get help or call the child protection
services or whatever they're called where you are.
If I was you I'd be very careful to not upset that family even further,
the husband is clearly violent and personally I would be scared that he
might come to my house if I seemed responsible if some government agency
stepped in.

I agree that the girl does seem to be testing your daughters friendship,
but that doesn't help you or your child, and as Jeff said, it's not your
job to provide councelling.

take care
nicole

On Jun 1, 10:24 am, Jeff wrote:

I think what is going on here is that the girl is testing your daughter.
She is scared that your daughter will back away or stop acting like
her friend. Considering all the stuff she has had to put up with, I
don't blame her. So, basically, she is acting normally for 9-year old
girl who has had a lot of relationship problems with her mom, her dad
and kids at school. You would too if you had all the issues she does.

It's not your job or your daughter's job to provide counseling for
another person's daughter. That is essentially what she is asking you to do.

Part of me is saying that the girl will be in big trouble if someone
doesn't step in and help her. Obviously, the mother is not doing it. You
might be the only one who will be able to help.

Part of me is saying that if you get more involved, you'll only set up
yourself and your daughter for more heartache. And you probably won't
make a difference.

I think I would make a two-part plan. I would call child protective
services or what state or local agency protects kids, and fill them in.
They may be able to step in and help. It's their job, not yours.
Whatever, happens, end of part 1.

And I would get a backbone and say that you're not going to let girl see
your daughter until the girl and her sister (and maybe the mother, too)
get into counseling.

If that happens, I would be expecting a lot of acting out when she gets
to your home. She is going to test her welcome very much. However, once
she knows that she is truly welcome, she may stop acting out so much and
have much better behavior.

Whether you want to cave in and the girl see your daughter if she
doesn't get counseling is up to you to decide later.

These are just my thoughts.

Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I appreciate your thoughts.

Gosh, calling child protective services. I don't know. I almost want
to just pay myself for the girl to go to a therapist, but I don't
think I am strong enough to handle a whole set of someone else's
problems along with my own family dynamic.

You really think calling would be ok? I really don't think the mom
has the mind or money to help her children. She has told me she is on
a waiting list to get counseling, but it was only in regards to her,
not the kids.

I agree with you about what the little girl is projecting, which is
why I tried to hang in as long as I could. It was when it started to
effect my own daughter, who has some issues of her own, that I
couldn't deal anymore.

Do you have experience with this service?

Vickie

On Jun 1, 10:38 am, NL wrote:
I have to agree with Jeff. There's very little you really can do.
You might want to also talk to the childrens teacher and see what advice
s/he has to offer, and maybe the teacher can then either talk to the
mother and suggest to her she get help or call the child protection
services or whatever they're called where you are.
If I was you I'd be very careful to not upset that family even further,
the husband is clearly violent and personally I would be scared that he
might come to my house if I seemed responsible if some government agency
stepped in.

I agree that the girl does seem to be testing your daughters friendship,
but that doesn't help you or your child, and as Jeff said, it's not your
job to provide councelling.

take care
nicole

I think the husband is going to prison for a few years. School is
almost out. Don't know if I want to burden her teacher with this.
Thanks for your reply.
And I will keep telling myself, ultimately this is not my
responsibility......right?

Vickie

Vickie wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:38 am, NL wrote:
I have to agree with Jeff. There's very little you really can do.
You might want to also talk to the childrens teacher and see what advice
s/he has to offer, and maybe the teacher can then either talk to the
mother and suggest to her she get help or call the child protection
services or whatever they're called where you are.
If I was you I'd be very careful to not upset that family even further,
the husband is clearly violent and personally I would be scared that he
might come to my house if I seemed responsible if some government agency
stepped in.

I agree that the girl does seem to be testing your daughters friendship,
but that doesn't help you or your child, and as Jeff said, it's not your
job to provide councelling.

take care
nicole

I think the husband is going to prison for a few years. School is
almost out. Don't know if I want to burden her teacher with this.
Thanks for your reply.
And I will keep telling myself, ultimately this is not my
responsibility......right?

Vickie

I thought it took a community to raise a child. You're part of the
community, right?

Ultimately, this is a very difficult problem, for your family and the
other family. There are no right answers.

Jeff

"Vickie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 1, 10:24 am, Jeff wrote:

I think what is going on here is that the girl is testing your daughter.
She is scared that your daughter will back away or stop acting like
her friend. Considering all the stuff she has had to put up with, I
don't blame her. So, basically, she is acting normally for 9-year old
girl who has had a lot of relationship problems with her mom, her dad
and kids at school. You would too if you had all the issues she does.

It's not your job or your daughter's job to provide counseling for
another person's daughter. That is essentially what she is asking you to
do.

Part of me is saying that the girl will be in big trouble if someone
doesn't step in and help her. Obviously, the mother is not doing it. You
might be the only one who will be able to help.

Part of me is saying that if you get more involved, you'll only set up
yourself and your daughter for more heartache. And you probably won't
make a difference.

I think I would make a two-part plan. I would call child protective
services or what state or local agency protects kids, and fill them in.
They may be able to step in and help. It's their job, not yours.
Whatever, happens, end of part 1.

And I would get a backbone and say that you're not going to let girl see
your daughter until the girl and her sister (and maybe the mother, too)
get into counseling.

If that happens, I would be expecting a lot of acting out when she gets
to your home. She is going to test her welcome very much. However, once
she knows that she is truly welcome, she may stop acting out so much and
have much better behavior.

Whether you want to cave in and the girl see your daughter if she
doesn't get counseling is up to you to decide later.

These are just my thoughts.

Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I appreciate your thoughts.

Gosh, calling child protective services. I don't know. I almost want
to just pay myself for the girl to go to a therapist, but I don't
think I am strong enough to handle a whole set of someone else's
problems along with my own family dynamic.




Child Protective Services is, indeed, a very scary prospect. Very scary.
That said... man knifes mom blood everywhere and 9yo has to phone 911.
Someone *else* might do something. But then again, maybe they won't.
Counseling over this one event is necessary, to be sure.

I know calling CPS is hard. I have done it. As a child care provider, I am a
mandatory reporter. I can share my experience in case it helps you to decide
what you need to do. This is how it worked at my state. Don't know if yours
is the same. They may take your name. They had to take my name, in my case.
I don't know if that is always the case. They do NOT tell the other party
who made the report. In my case, I fessed up. The Mom would have been able
to figure it out anyway. So details of your story may give a clue to the
Mom. They ask you what you heard, saw and whatnot. They do not ask you for
your judgments. Very only the facts Maam. Very professional.




You really think calling would be ok?


Your only decision is to report or not report what you know. THEIR decision
is whether or not children need intervention. That can be reassuring. In my
opinion, reporting would be better than Ok. If knives are being placed into
other human beings bodies in that household, then she is in imminent danger.
What would happen, for instance, if she were to try to intervene with her
Mom's assault next time?


I really don't think the mom
has the mind or money to help her children. She has told me she is on
a waiting list to get counseling, but it was only in regards to her,
not the kids.

I agree with you about what the little girl is projecting, which is
why I tried to hang in as long as I could. It was when it started to
effect my own daughter, who has some issues of her own, that I
couldn't deal anymore.

Do you have experience with this service?

Vickie


Good luck, Vickie. This sounds truely awful.

Vickie wrote:

I think the husband is going to prison for a few years. School is
almost out. Don't know if I want to burden her teacher with this.

I don't think it's burdening a teacher if you ask her/him for an
appointment. And explain what's going on, and ask him/her for help in
the situation. Chances are this isn't the first time something like that
has happened in one of the teachers classes, so s/he might have
experience and know a better answer than I/we on this NG do. Especially
since the teacher also knows the child and her parent(s).

Thanks for your reply.

You're welcome.

And I will keep telling myself, ultimately this is not my
responsibility......right?

Well, kind of sort of. It's not your responsibility to make it all
right, and fix their family. But I think more people need to step in
when extreme violence occurs. I know I wish someone had called the
police when my ex beat me through the appartment.

cu
nicole

In article . com, Vickie
says...


So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?


This is one entanglement that you need, for your daughter's sake, to completely
eliminate from your life. Yes, it's sad about the two girls, but you help them
(and you really *can't* help them except possibly by notifying authorities) only
at the expense of your own child.

Therefore, the answer should be obvious to you. I wouldn't leave the door open
even a crack. Don't give her the "get her life back on track..." line, even.
Say goodbye.

Banty

In article WzZ7i.19$My4.3@trndny05, Jeff says...

Vickie wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:38 am, NL wrote:
I have to agree with Jeff. There's very little you really can do.
You might want to also talk to the childrens teacher and see what advice
s/he has to offer, and maybe the teacher can then either talk to the
mother and suggest to her she get help or call the child protection
services or whatever they're called where you are.
If I was you I'd be very careful to not upset that family even further,
the husband is clearly violent and personally I would be scared that he
might come to my house if I seemed responsible if some government agency
stepped in.

I agree that the girl does seem to be testing your daughters friendship,
but that doesn't help you or your child, and as Jeff said, it's not your
job to provide councelling.

take care
nicole

I think the husband is going to prison for a few years. School is
almost out. Don't know if I want to burden her teacher with this.
Thanks for your reply.
And I will keep telling myself, ultimately this is not my
responsibility......right?

Vickie

I thought it took a community to raise a child. You're part of the
community, right?


Sure - but some things are messed up beyond one's ability to help. But most of
all, some things are just poison. To the community.

Story: We had a very troubled boy on our long-ish circle street. A family a
few doors down from us decided they'd do the community thing and let this boy
come around and play with their kids as no one else would play with him. The
boy's family took a hands-off stance, and the father even showed some pride that
his boy was a tough kid.

Results: This boy, although older than most of the other kids (including the
boys in this family), hung around in our area. Among other things, he would
pick up things and swing them at the younger children, injuring them.

Then there was the incident where he invited my immediate neighbor's older boy
to perform fellatio.

Nonetheless, the family down the block continued letting the boy come around to
play with theirs to try to help.

For two summers, several families, including mine, needed to make plans, every
day, not to have our kids be outside playing. Which is really a shame, since we
had bought houses in a family neighborhood in order to let kids play together
like how we grew up.

Why it didn't go to a third summer: This boy became acquainted with some older
boys from another neighborhood, and he led them to rob the neighbor of the
family in question. Told them when they would go on vacation; told them the
location in the home of certain items.

Then the family in question decided he was not suitable to be in their home, and
that they could not help him. So finally, he stopped coming around and hanging
out in our area.

Why this is no longer a problem at all: This troubled boy, at age 19, committed
suicide. How? By a head on collision about three miles from here with a family
who was driving home from the hospital with their newborn baby.

OK??? You understand now what kind of things people can be dealing with when
they decide they're "part of a village" and get in over their heads?

Maybe we're not dealing with a sociopath in this case, but Vickie's daughter has
already needed to take some precious growing-up time getting over problems
caused by this girl. Some things can't be helped, some things can only be
helped by the right people (professionals!), some things can be helped only at
great unrecoverable cost to one's own family.

I think this is one of those cases. Or is likely enough to be, to make it
advisable to stay detached from it.

Banty (it takes a village to poison a village)