Relocating to Canada from US

Has anyone here moved to a different country, or more specifically to
Canada? Im concerned with citizenship issues, things like that. Right now,
we're in the beginning stages of researching it - mostly cost of living
adjustments, schools, health care. Im totally sick and tired of our country.
I *love* Canada. Having lived less than 3 hours away my entire life I've
spent a fair amt of time there and I am always impressed with the people I
meet, the communities, etc.

Im truly an unhappy American. My dh is starting to feel the same. I can't
stand to watch the news. It depresses and angers me. I dont support our
government and I know that sounds terrible but I just dont think I want to
live in a country like this any longer. It's a debate that we've been
encountering with a lot of our friends and relatives lately and people are
starting to tell me that maybe we should leave if we aren't "proud to be
American" and quite frankly, I'm not.

My husband has a chance to relocate within his job field just outside of
Toronto. And as far as Im concerned, Toronto is one of the most amazing
cities I've every visited. I know I have a lot to think about and look into
and I dont want to start a debate or anything, just looking for some BTDT
posts from others, or from fellow Canadians who can give me a good opinion
on what life is like in the north.

Please, no flames. This is JMO and I dont want a huge political debate or
anything. Im just looking for advice.

Kari
mom to Kaylie (8) Noah (4) and Xander (4 mos)

Kari wrote:
| Has anyone here moved to a different country, or more specifically to
| Canada?

My family and I moved to Calgary, Alberta last spring. We are US citizens.

| Im concerned with citizenship issues, things like that. Right
| now, we're in the beginning stages of researching it - mostly cost of
| living adjustments,

In re cost of living adjustments, that will likely depend on exactly where
you live. For example, we moved here from Puerto Rico which had a whooping
cost of living adjustment for my husband (private industry) and a more
moderate one for me (US Federal Gov't). There is no cost of living
allowance here for my husband because the cost of living is lower compared
to the US. The taxes are pretty high but our base is Florida where ther are
no state taxes so his company pays the entire amount of tax over and about
what our hypothetical federal plus state (zero) would be in Florida. That's
lucky; if our base was Wisconsin, we would owe some large percentage,
though probably not all, of the provincial taxes. This is the first year we
will file Canadian tax returns (in additon to Puerto Rican tax returns) so
I'm not clear on all aspects but I expect what I have written above it close
to correct.

| schools,

In re schools, looked up the standardized reading and math test scores for
Calgary public school on the web and picked some of the top-performing
schools. My husband then determined where they were in relation to where we
would be working and found a house in one of those districts.

| health care.

We carry private medical and dental insurance through my husband's employer.
We have encountered no problem with that being accepted although if one of
us needed a diagnostic service that had a 6-month waiting period here in
Canada, I suspect we would fly or drive to Montana and get it immediately
(and charge the company). Haven't run into that yet and hope to never run
into it during the few years we are living here.

| Im totally sick and tired
| of our country. I *love* Canada. Having lived less than 3 hours away
| my entire life I've spent a fair amt of time there and I am always
| impressed with the people I meet, the communities, etc.
|
| Im truly an unhappy American. My dh is starting to feel the same. I
| can't stand to watch the news. It depresses and angers me. I dont
| support our government and I know that sounds terrible but I just
| dont think I want to live in a country like this any longer. It's a
| debate that we've been encountering with a lot of our friends and
| relatives lately and people are starting to tell me that maybe we
| should leave if we aren't "proud to be American" and quite frankly,
| I'm not.

While Canada in general, and Calgary in particular certainly have their high
points, it cannot be considered obvioulsy superior to the US across the
board. The medical diagnostic services issue alone is problematic enough
for me. The high taxes would be problematic if we actually had to paid
them.

| My husband has a chance to relocate within his job field just outside
| of Toronto. And as far as Im concerned, Toronto is one of the most
| amazing cities I've every visited. I know I have a lot to think about
| and look into and I dont want to start a debate or anything, just
| looking for some BTDT posts from others, or from fellow Canadians who
| can give me a good opinion on what life is like in the north.

Never been to Toronto.

| Please, no flames. This is JMO and I dont want a huge political
| debate or anything. Im just looking for advice.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best regards,

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

In article ,
Kari wrote:
My husband has a chance to relocate within his job field just outside of
Toronto. And as far as Im concerned, Toronto is one of the most amazing
cities I've every visited. I know I have a lot to think about and look into
and I dont want to start a debate or anything, just looking for some BTDT
posts from others, or from fellow Canadians who can give me a good opinion
on what life is like in the north.

I have lived in the US and Canada. Toronto has a very high cost of living
compared to most places in the US. Taxes in Canada (income, sales, goods
and services) are very high too. On the flip side is socialized medicine.
Toronto has very good doctors, though getting an appointment can take
forever. If you remain US citizens, you will have to file tax returns
in both Canada and the US -- you probably won't *owe* much if anything
to the Americans since they give you a credit for taxes paid to Canada,
but it's a pain nonetheless.

--Robyn

"Kari" wrote in message
...
Has anyone here moved to a different country, or more specifically to
Canada? Im concerned with citizenship issues, things like that. Right now,
we're in the beginning stages of researching it - mostly cost of living
adjustments, schools, health care. Im totally sick and tired of our
country.
I *love* Canada. Having lived less than 3 hours away my entire life I've
spent a fair amt of time there and I am always impressed with the people I
meet, the communities, etc.

It's been many years since I checked it out, but my understanding is that it
is now much more difficult than it used to be. Also, Uncle Sam was half of
everything you own if you leave the country.

Im truly an unhappy American. My dh is starting to feel the same. I can't
stand to watch the news. It depresses and angers me. I dont support our
government and I know that sounds terrible but I just dont think I want to
live in a country like this any longer. It's a debate that we've been
encountering with a lot of our friends and relatives lately and people are
starting to tell me that maybe we should leave if we aren't "proud to be
American" and quite frankly, I'm not.

You just tell them that's a load of mule muffins. They have short memories
(or are deficient in their learning of history). Being proud to be an
American and being proud of your government have only recently been consider
synonymous. It use to be that to be proud and *responsible* American, you
were at least skeptical, if not perpetually suspicious of your government.
The whole foundation of this country was based on keeping the government
bound by rules and regulations that it "may do no mischief" (Jefferson).
Those of the "love it or leave it (right or wrong)" mentality are NOT
patriots, but nationalists -- DEFINITELY not the same thing. The patriot
expression would we "love it and make sure it's always right".


--
"There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary numbers and those who don't."
-----------------------------
Byron "Barn" Canfield

"
My family and I moved to Calgary, Alberta last spring. We are US
citizens.


My understanding is, that we could claim residency as Canadians but still
remain US citizens. Also, the same would be true with our kids. However, if
we gave birth to another child while living in Canada, that child could have
dual citizenship. Is that correct?



In re cost of living adjustments, that will likely depend on exactly where
you live.

Right now we live in NY State.

There is no cost of living
allowance here for my husband because the cost of living is lower compared
to the US.

Right. I knew that. Im spretty sure his wages would reflect the differences
as he would be tranferring but doing the same job in the same kind of place.
If that makes sense.

The taxes are pretty high but our base is Florida where ther are
no state taxes so his company pays the entire amount of tax over and about
what our hypothetical federal plus state (zero) would be in Florida.

I just wonder if they are comparable to our taxes here. I have no idea what
numbers we're looking at yet.


| schools,

In re schools, looked up the standardized reading and math test scores
for
Calgary public school on the web and picked some of the top-performing
schools.

Good idea, thanks.

My husband then determined where they were in relation to where we
would be working and found a house in one of those districts.

| health care.

We carry private medical and dental insurance through my husband's
employer.

That would be our case more than likely as well.


We have encountered no problem with that being accepted although if one of
us needed a diagnostic service that had a 6-month waiting period here in
Canada, I suspect we would fly or drive to Montana and get it immediately
(and charge the company).

Im sure living close to the border (or relatively so) We would do the same.


While Canada in general, and Calgary in particular certainly have their
high
points, it cannot be considered obvioulsy superior to the US across the
board. The medical diagnostic services issue alone is problematic enough
for me. The high taxes would be problematic if we actually had to paid
them.

I knew they had high taxes. For the most part though, or at least what I've
heard, is that you generally know where your tax dollars are going and what
they are used for. We pay an absurd amt of money each month in state,
federal, soc security and medical care for us is 700.00 out of pocket per
month. We'll probably never even see the social security at the rate we're
going.


Never been to Toronto.

I love it. Great city, clean, friendly, tons to do. Only 3 hours from
family - which we are now anyway.


Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best regards,

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Thanks so much, it was very helpful

I have lived in the US and Canada. Toronto has a very high cost of living
compared to most places in the US.

We wouldn't be living in Toronto, probably 20 miles outside of the city.

Taxes in Canada (income, sales, goods
and services) are very high too.

Yes, Im aware of that. We pay a lot now, however. I dont know the numbers
off the top of my head and I don't have a pay stub in front of me but it's
well over 1000.00 a month in state, federal, ss and health care. I know that
our health care alone is around 700.00 a month. He has awful health
insurance benefits unfortunately.

On the flip side is socialized medicine.
Toronto has very good doctors, though getting an appointment can take
forever.

I've heard that too. We're ex-military and so I totally know what it's like
to wait for ages for an appointment, not being able to choose who you see,
etc. It kind of sucked and I complained about it to no end. But now that
we're civilians and paying out of pocket, I have NO idea what I was
complaining about!!

If you remain US citizens, you will have to file tax returns
in both Canada and the US -- you probably won't *owe* much if anything
to the Americans since they give you a credit for taxes paid to Canada,
but it's a pain nonetheless.

Im sure it would be a pain, but hey, my husband takes care of all the tax
forms anyway

Thanks for the input

Kari

Kari wrote:
| "
|| My family and I moved to Calgary, Alberta last spring. We are US
|| citizens.
||
|
| My understanding is, that we could claim residency as Canadians but
| still remain US citizens.

That's what we are doing.

Also, the same would be true with our
| kids.

Correct. Our guinea pigs are Canadian citizens who will become US citizens
when we return ; )

However, if we gave birth to another child while living in
| Canada, that child could have dual citizenship. Is that correct?

Got me on that one. It sounds correct.

(snip)

|| allowance here for my husband because the cost of living is lower
|| compared to the US.
|
| Right. I knew that. Im spretty sure his wages would reflect the
| differences as he would be tranferring but doing the same job in the
| same kind of place. If that makes sense.

There is a distinction between exchange rate of money and cost of living.

(snip)

|| While Canada in general, and Calgary in particular certainly have
|| their high points, it cannot be considered obvioulsy superior to the
|| US across the board. The medical diagnostic services issue alone is
|| problematic enough for me. The high taxes would be problematic if
|| we actually had to paid them.
|
| I knew they had high taxes. For the most part though, or at least
| what I've heard, is that you generally know where your tax dollars
| are going and what they are used for. We pay an absurd amt of money
| each month in state, federal, soc security and medical care for us is
| 700.00 out of pocket per month. We'll probably never even see the
| social security at the rate we're going.

Oh I agree with that last part. My DH and I are in our early 40s and we are
not relying at all on SS at all in our retirement.


--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Correct. Our guinea pigs are Canadian citizens who will become US
citizens
when we return ; )

May I ask, when are you returning? Are you there for job reasons only? Just
curious



There is a distinction between exchange rate of money and cost of living.

Ok, yes that is what I meant.


Oh I agree with that last part. My DH and I are in our early 40s and we
are
not relying at all on SS at all in our retirement.

Im still in my 20's, my dh is 31 so there is no way I think we'll get jack
squat for SS when we retire. Thankfully we have a nice 401K and retirement
plan at the company he works at now. All that would come into play if we
relocated. I dont see how it would be a problem to transfer but worth
checking into.

Kari wrote:
|| Correct. Our guinea pigs are Canadian citizens who will become US
|| citizens when we return ; )
|
| May I ask, when are you returning? Are you there for job reasons
| only? Just curious

Well we aren't here for the tax structure nor the medical establishment ; )

My husband was transferred here and I was able to keep my slot while we are
here.

I extect we'll be here for a few years at most.

(snip)

|| Oh I agree with that last part. My DH and I are in our early 40s
|| and we are not relying at all on SS at all in our retirement.
|
| Im still in my 20's, my dh is 31 so there is no way I think we'll get
| jack squat for SS when we retire. Thankfully we have a nice 401K and
| retirement plan at the company he works at now. All that would come
| into play if we relocated. I dont see how it would be a problem to
| transfer but worth checking into.

I'm guessing you almost have to go into the market (stocks, bonds, etc.) on
top of all that in order to have enough money for the kid's college and
retirement. That's how we are approaching the problem anyway.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Being proud to be an
American and being proud of your government have only recently been consider
synonymous. It use to be that to be proud and *responsible* American, you
were at least skeptical, if not perpetually suspicious of your government.
The whole foundation of this country was based on keeping the government
bound by rules and regulations that it "may do no mischief" (Jefferson).

"Indeed, I tremble for my country, when I reflect that God is just." (Jefferson
again. I'm sure it's equally as applicable to many other countries, though.)

--Helen