Privacy Rights of a Parent with a "noisy" toddler

Hello,

My wife and I live in a townhouse community (CA) and have a 20-month
toddler. He can be a screamer at times. We've had a couple of
incidents with the neighbors and now my wife is scared that if the
neighbors hear him crying again they might call the police and take
him away. This is a real fear of my wife. Specifically, the
incidents:

1) In changing his bedtime, we let him "cry it out" under close
supervision for about 30 minutes in his bedroom. During this time we
had a neighbor who was outside knock on our door to "check" on us.
This majorly annoyed my wife.

2) We spend a lot of time outside. In another incident, we were
outside on the patio and he was especially cranky. He cried on and
off for 30 minutes. We try not to attend to him if he is throwing a
temper tantrum. In this case, we had one neighbor who peeked over our
wall to "check" on us. Then, we had another neighbor knock on our
door and scold my wife about disciplining our child.

Now I can understand the noise issue. And in the future, we will not
let our child cry out for long if we are outside. However, my wife is
convinced that if they hear him crying again we will be accused of
child abuse and the next time the police will be standing at our door.

Specific questions:

1) Do we have a privacy right to not be bothered by intrusive
neighbors (i.e., ignoring the doorbell or knocking on the door).

2) Do we not have a right to discipline our child as we see fit (i.e.,
ignoring his temper tantrum) if we are on our own property, assuming
of course there is no physical abuse?

3) Does someone have the right to call the police on us if they hear
our child crying? And if that were to occur, what rights do we have?

Your response is appreciated.

If someone calls CPS on you, you have an absolute right not to admit worker to
your home.

Even if they threaten you.

See NG alt support child protective services.

You might, show your child at a window to assure worker child is hale and
healthy except when he is in a *screaming meltdown.*

http://www.familyrightsassociation.com

(SeanK) wrote in message . ..


2) We spend a lot of time outside. In another incident, we were
outside on the patio and he was especially cranky. He cried on and
off for 30 minutes. We try not to attend to him if he is throwing a
temper tantrum. In this case, we had one neighbor who peeked over our
wall to "check" on us. Then, we had another neighbor knock on our
door and scold my wife about disciplining our child.

I don't really know anything about your legal questions, but I
sometimes worry about our neighbors hearing tantrums (luckily we
haven't experienced and nosy-ness yet).

But anyway, when my kid is having a loud tantrum outdoors and I think
the best parenting reaction is to ignore it, I sort of "comment" on it
for the neighbors to overhear:

(rather more loudly than necessary) "Oh I see you are upset. You may
have a healthy snack when you calm down, but you may not have any
candy before dinner"

"I know it is frustrating, but I had to take the ball away -- we don't
throw the ball at the neighbor's cat"

or whatever is appropriate for the situation. Hopefully this helps
tell the neighbors what is going on without them having to stick the
nose in and prevents and issues, while still serving the parenting
goal of not giving in to a tantrum.

Good luck.

Jan

"Nomen Nescio" wrote in message
...
How typical. It's all about you and your screaming kid. What about your
neighbors' rights to not be disturbed by noise, especially the noise of a
child who won't quit screaming and crying? How the hell are they supposed
to know your kid is OK? What about their right to privacy and peace?

The problem isn't the neighbors. The problem is you and your wife. If you
want to do things your way with no consequences, move out to the country
somewhere. If you won't do that, understand that your neighbors have
rights too, and you're just going to have to deal with that and try to
keep
your child quieter. If you want your neighbors to respect your privacy,
show them some respect for their privacy and peace in return.

Spoken by a person who apparently not only doesn't have kids, but actively
hates those who do. Nice.

"animzmirot" wrote in
:


"Nomen Nescio" wrote in message
...
How typical. It's all about you and your screaming kid.
What about your neighbors' rights to not be disturbed by
noise, especially the noise of a child who won't quit
screaming and crying? How the hell are they supposed to
know your kid is OK? What about their right to privacy and
peace?

The problem isn't the neighbors. The problem is you and
your wife. If you want to do things your way with no
consequences, move out to the country somewhere. If you
won't do that, understand that your neighbors have rights
too, and you're just going to have to deal with that and
try to
keep
your child quieter. If you want your neighbors to respect
your privacy, show them some respect for their privacy and
peace in return.

Spoken by a person who apparently not only doesn't have
kids, but actively hates those who do. Nice.

just a CF troll. give him a pat on the head & send him home.
lee

In article , enigma says...

"animzmirot" wrote in
:


"Nomen Nescio" wrote in message
...
How typical. It's all about you and your screaming kid.
What about your neighbors' rights to not be disturbed by
noise, especially the noise of a child who won't quit
screaming and crying? How the hell are they supposed to
know your kid is OK? What about their right to privacy and
peace?

The problem isn't the neighbors. The problem is you and
your wife. If you want to do things your way with no
consequences, move out to the country somewhere. If you
won't do that, understand that your neighbors have rights
too, and you're just going to have to deal with that and
try to
keep
your child quieter. If you want your neighbors to respect
your privacy, show them some respect for their privacy and
peace in return.

Spoken by a person who apparently not only doesn't have
kids, but actively hates those who do. Nice.

just a CF troll. give him a pat on the head & send him home.
lee


A quick googling shows "Nomen Nescio" to be a sock-puppet troll spewing all over
about all assundry.

We parents know what to do with tantrums, anyhow, even if they do make noise
;-)

Banty

Sean,

You have a toddler who sometimes cries and throws tantrums. You live in a
townhouse where your child's noise can be heard by your neighbors. You ask:


1) Do we have a privacy right to not be bothered by intrusive
neighbors (i.e., ignoring the doorbell or knocking on the door).

There is no specific right to privacy as you describe and your neighbors
are not being intrusive. You can ignore the doorbell et c.. Your neighbors
have the right to peace and quiet but a child crying at 7:30 or 8:00 pm
probably does not violate this right unless the crying is not long lasting.
You indicate that the crying is long lasting. Perhaps you could discuss with
your adjacent neighbors the meaning of the expression "the terrible twos".

2) Do we not have a right to discipline our child as we see fit (i.e.,
ignoring his temper tantrum) if we are on our own property, assuming
of course there is no physical abuse?

This is a tough question as the definition of abuse seems to change. Be
aware that abuse need not be physical.

3) Does someone have the right to call the police on us if they hear
our child crying? And if that were to occur, what rights do we have?

Anyone has the right to call the police when your child is crying to
complain of noise or possible abuse. If the police do come to your door
explain the situation. If they call in a "child services" person you may
want to discuss your situation with a lawyer.

Good luck,
Dave M.

In ,
SeanK wrote:

*Specific questions:
*
*1) Do we have a privacy right to not be bothered by intrusive
*neighbors (i.e., ignoring the doorbell or knocking on the door).

Do you mean do you have the right to not answer the door? Sure! But, if
your kid is screaming and you do not answer the door, you might be more
likely to have unwanted law enforcement people showing up - I mean, if I
heard what I thought was a child screaming, and there was apparently no
adult able to come to the door, I imagine I'd call the cops. Of course I
do sometimes hear kids screaming from one of the neighbor's homes and I
have never called the cops on my neighbors. I know what it is like to have
kids!

* *2) Do we not have a right to discipline our child as we see fit (i.e.,
*ignoring his temper tantrum) if we are on our own property, assuming
*of course there is no physical abuse?

Of course you do.

*3) Does someone have the right to call the police on us if they hear
*our child crying? And if that were to occur, what rights do we have?

Yes, someone does. Anyone can call the police any time they truly believe
an illegal act is occuring (heck, they can call any time they want for any
reason as long as they aren't lying to the police, is my understanding - I
can call the cops and ask if the moon is made of green cheese. They might
hang up on me or not answer, but whatever). But. If they called the police
and said your kid was crying, the police would say "so what." If they
called the police and said your kid was crying, and was apparently alone
or unattended, or that apparently you were home and choosing to ignore the
child for "unreasonable" lengths of time, the police would have the
obligation to investigate (themselves or via CPS or something like that
depending on the area, I imagine). You then would have the right to fail
to be proven guilty of whatever they claimed you were doing that was
illegal. You would have the right to an attorney. You would have the right
to present your side of the story to the initial investigator. You would
have a lot of rights. You also have the right to call the neighbor an
asshole who should mind his own business, but that might be unhelpful.

-h.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

"SeanK" wrote in message
...

(snip of account of crying toddler attracting attention of neighbors)

Specific questions:

1) Do we have a privacy right to not be bothered by intrusive
neighbors (i.e., ignoring the doorbell or knocking on the door).

How are the neighbors supposed to know there isn't a legitimate crisis going
on? Maybe the baby is crying unabated because Mommy has been hurt and can't
respond (there've been cases where a murder victim was discovered because a
child left behind alive was bawling). I don't see how neighbors knocking on
your door either to see if something might be wrong or to let you know that
your child's crying is intruding upon their property amounts to an invasion
of your privacy.


2) Do we not have a right to discipline our child as we see fit (i.e.,
ignoring his temper tantrum) if we are on our own property, assuming
of course there is no physical abuse?

Well... physical or emotional abuse. But how are the neighbors supposed to
know that? If it's jus a neighbor scolding you for not giving the child
attention every time it has a temper tantrum, I'd say just tell them to buzz
off. But a child crying loudly enough to be heard next door might be a
child having his tantrum ignored -- or it might be a child who is being
abused.


3) Does someone have the right to call the police on us if they hear
our child crying? And if that were to occur, what rights do we have?

Presumably a person has the right to call the police if they believe a child
is being abused -- I would HOPE a person would call the police if they
thought a child was being abused. You would have the right to be presumed
innocent of any crime -- maybe Childrens Protective Services (or whatever
they're called in your locale) would be called in to investigate, but beyond
a child that cries a lot, are they going to find any sign of abuse on which
to base charges?

It would be interesting to know whether a persistently crying child violates
any municipal noise ordinances anywhere, the way a constantly barking dog
might. I mean, if push comes to shove, you can find a new home for a
yapping mutt, but packing a bawling babe off to a family in the country
where he won't disturb the neighbors is frowned upon.


I hope -- for your sake and the neighbors' -- that the child outgrows it
before long. Good luck.

My younger daughter had loud tantrums, sometimes at night, and I
always did my best to ignore them. I didn't realize just how loud she
was until while we were taking a walk, our neighbors 2 doors down
asked 'who was screaming the other night?'. My daughter cheerfully
held up her hand and said 'it was me!' The neighbors laughed, and
they didn't say anything bad to anyone -- as far as I know. But these
are people we're friendly with, and they have no reason to call anyone
official about us. They know our family and how well we treat our
kids.

As for your questions:

(SeanK) wrote in message news:
Specific questions:

1) Do we have a privacy right to not be bothered by intrusive
neighbors (i.e., ignoring the doorbell or knocking on the door).


I don't think anyone has a right to not be 'bothered' -- it simply
can't be legislated. You of course have the right not to answer the
door, or to tell them to go away, or to place a sign on your door that
(hopefully kindly) explains your situation [ "If you want to visit,
another time might be better"], when necessary.

2) Do we not have a right to discipline our child as we see fit (i.e.,
ignoring his temper tantrum) if we are on our own property, assuming
of course there is no physical abuse?


Up until neglect, I'd guess, which is pretty variable (You'd probably
have a hard time explaining yourself if these neighbors claimed to
have heard *hours* of extreme screaming, because if you aren't hurting
him, you'd be admitting to also not *helping* him either). You need
to stop ignoring him if he's in a situation or location where he could
be harmed, even if it's him harming himself, regardless of the
duration, of course.

3) Does someone have the right to call the police on us if they hear
our child crying? And if that were to occur, what rights do we have?


People have the *right* to call police whenever and for whatever
reason they want. And you have the *right* to discipline your child
within the law. You both retain all of those rights regardless of any
amount of tantrums. Neighbors could call the police and tell them
you're breaking the law right now. If it sounds legit, the police
will probably come over and check it out. If it doesn't sound legit,
the police might call you on the phone and see how things sound, and
how *you* sound. I would imagine if this happened and you didn't
answer the phone, they'd drive over anyway.

You have the *right* to ... I don't know, this is seeming less like a
tantruming kid and more like something else. I hope your son gets
over the tantrums soon, and that you and your neighbors get along
better in the future.

Tina.