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Shaken, not swirled



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 15th 07, 05:38 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
JessicaG
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Posts: 4
Default Shaken, not swirled

If you shake expressed breast milk it'll break down all the good stuff. Is
this an old wives tale or a proven fact? I googled and couldn't find much in
the way of proof.


  #2  
Old August 15th 07, 08:27 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
NL
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Posts: 444
Default Shaken, not swirled

JessicaG schrieb:
If you shake expressed breast milk it'll break down all the good
stuff. Is this an old wives tale or a proven fact? I googled and
couldn't find much in the way of proof.


No, but if you microwave any kind of milk the protein structure will be
altered.

cu
nicole
  #3  
Old August 16th 07, 12:07 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 264
Default Shaken, not swirled

On Aug 15, 3:27?pm, NL wrote:
JessicaG schrieb:

If you shake expressed breast milk it'll break down all the good
stuff. Is this an old wives tale or a proven fact? I googled and
couldn't find much in the way of proof.


No, but if you microwave any kind of milk the protein structure will be
altered.

cu
nicole


http://www.bflrc.com/ljs/breastfeeding/shakenot.htm

  #4  
Old August 16th 07, 01:13 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
JessicaG
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Posts: 4
Default Shaken, not swirled


"Chris" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 15, 3:27?pm, NL wrote:
JessicaG schrieb:

If you shake expressed breast milk it'll break down all the good
stuff. Is this an old wives tale or a proven fact? I googled and
couldn't find much in the way of proof.


No, but if you microwave any kind of milk the protein structure will be
altered.

cu
nicole


http://www.bflrc.com/ljs/breastfeeding/shakenot.htm


Thanks for the link, it's one of the ones I had googled. This just sounds
very urban-legendy to me, I was hoping for something a little more
scientific.


  #5  
Old August 16th 07, 01:48 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Chris
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Posts: 264
Default Shaken, not swirled

On Aug 15, 8:13?pm, "JessicaG" wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Aug 15, 3:27?pm, NL wrote:
JessicaG schrieb:


If you shake expressed breast milk it'll break down all the good
stuff. Is this an old wives tale or a proven fact? I googled and
couldn't find much in the way of proof.


No, but if you microwave any kind of milk the protein structure will be
altered.


cu
nicole


http://www.bflrc.com/ljs/breastfeeding/shakenot.htm


Thanks for the link, it's one of the ones I had googled. This just sounds
very urban-legendy to me, I was hoping for something a little more
scientific.


yeah, it would be better if she cited some of sources rather than just
listing her credentials. LLLI actually says TO shake before testing
temp. I'll ask for some sources from folks on another bf'ing board
where they say not to shake all of the time!

  #6  
Old August 16th 07, 01:52 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Lara
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Posts: 26
Default Shaken, not swirled

JessicaG wrote:

http://www.bflrc.com/ljs/breastfeeding/shakenot.htm


Thanks for the link, it's one of the ones I had googled. This just sounds
very urban-legendy to me, I was hoping for something a little more
scientific.


I've been tracking this for ages, and looked for papers, and as far as I
can track down, it's complete urban legend when you're talking about
normal shaking. The URL cited above is the one and only trackable
source. I contacted the author of the piece, and she has no scientific
sources - just a throwaway remark made at a conference. She said that
she liked the story and kept it because it respects mother's milk as a
living substance, not because there's any evidence behind it.

Meanwhile I've consulted with a biochem/chem degree and a molecular
biology PhD (my partner) who works daily with protein antibodies,
DNA/RNA, and cell culture, and he said the idea was incorrect. (And
kinda wished it was that easy to denature proteins and cells,
sometimes!) There has been a similar consensus from highly qualified
biologists/chemists on the pumpmoms groups.

Vigorous and prolonged shaking to the point of foaming the whole
container of milk _may_ denature proteins somewhat, and possibly disrupt
some cells, but not affect the nutritional qualities of the milk
otherwise. But I've never met anyone who shakes their milk like that!

Lara
  #7  
Old August 16th 07, 03:11 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
yogigupta
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Posts: 7
Default Shaken, not swirled

On Aug 16, 8:52 am, (Lara) wrote:
JessicaG wrote:
http://www.bflrc.com/ljs/breastfeeding/shakenot.htm


Thanks for the link, it's one of the ones I had googled. This just sounds
very urban-legendy to me, I was hoping for something a little more
scientific.


I've been tracking this for ages, and looked for papers, and as far as I
can track down, it's complete urban legend when you're talking about
normal shaking. The URL cited above is the one and only trackable
source. I contacted the author of the piece, and she has no scientific
sources - just a throwaway remark made at a conference. She said that
she liked the story and kept it because it respects mother's milk as a
living substance, not because there's any evidence behind it.

Meanwhile I've consulted with a biochem/chem degree and a molecular
biology PhD (my partner) who works daily with protein antibodies,
DNA/RNA, and cell culture, and he said the idea was incorrect. (And
kinda wished it was that easy to denature proteins and cells,
sometimes!) There has been a similar consensus from highly qualified
biologists/chemists on the pumpmoms groups.

Vigorous and prolonged shaking to the point of foaming the whole
container of milk _may_ denature proteins somewhat, and possibly disrupt
some cells, but not affect the nutritional qualities of the milk
otherwise. But I've never met anyone who shakes their milk like that!

Lara


Of course, the protein structures of milk changes by temperature and
agitation. You heat cow's milk to 190 deg to induce change in protein
structure and then cool to 110 to make yogurt. The changed protein
structure gives you firm yogurt. You churn milk at 60 degrees to
separate butter fat as well as induce change to protein structue.

But all these actions are extreme that induce changes in protein
structures. The author of the article is stretching the truth by
asserting that changes from violent shaking (churning) are same as
regular shaking.

  #8  
Old August 17th 07, 03:24 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
JessicaG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Shaken, not swirled

I've been tracking this for ages, and looked for papers, and as far as I
can track down, it's complete urban legend when you're talking about
normal shaking. The URL cited above is the one and only trackable
source. I contacted the author of the piece, and she has no scientific
sources - just a throwaway remark made at a conference. She said that
she liked the story and kept it because it respects mother's milk as a
living substance, not because there's any evidence behind it.

Meanwhile I've consulted with a biochem/chem degree and a molecular
biology PhD (my partner) who works daily with protein antibodies,
DNA/RNA, and cell culture, and he said the idea was incorrect. (And
kinda wished it was that easy to denature proteins and cells,
sometimes!) There has been a similar consensus from highly qualified
biologists/chemists on the pumpmoms groups.

Vigorous and prolonged shaking to the point of foaming the whole
container of milk _may_ denature proteins somewhat, and possibly disrupt
some cells, but not affect the nutritional qualities of the milk
otherwise. But I've never met anyone who shakes their milk like that!

Lara


Wow, thanks for the great info!

It just amazes me that such misinformation (possibly) is allowed to
perpetuate and be taught as truth. I can imagine folks feeling guilty over
shaking the milk or getting scolded by a know-it-all when caught not
swirling. It's so silly when we have so much other stuff to worry and feel
guilty about!


  #9  
Old August 17th 07, 03:59 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 264
Default Shaken, not swirled

On Aug 16, 10:24?pm, "JessicaG" wrote:
I've been tracking this for ages, and looked for papers, and as far as I
can track down, it's complete urban legend when you're talking about
normal shaking. The URL cited above is the one and only trackable
source. I contacted the author of the piece, and she has no scientific
sources - just a throwaway remark made at a conference. She said that
she liked the story and kept it because it respects mother's milk as a
living substance, not because there's any evidence behind it.


Meanwhile I've consulted with a biochem/chem degree and a molecular
biology PhD (my partner) who works daily with protein antibodies,
DNA/RNA, and cell culture, and he said the idea was incorrect. (And
kinda wished it was that easy to denature proteins and cells,
sometimes!) There has been a similar consensus from highly qualified
biologists/chemists on the pumpmoms groups.


Vigorous and prolonged shaking to the point of foaming the whole
container of milk _may_ denature proteins somewhat, and possibly disrupt
some cells, but not affect the nutritional qualities of the milk
otherwise. But I've never met anyone who shakes their milk like that!


Lara


Wow, thanks for the great info!

It just amazes me that such misinformation (possibly) is allowed to
perpetuate and be taught as truth. I can imagine folks feeling guilty over
shaking the milk or getting scolded by a know-it-all when caught not
swirling. It's so silly when we have so much other stuff to worry and feel
guilty about! - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You are sooo right! I thought I had learned to not repeat things I
hadn't verified as fact myself. lol. I have now for certain. I will
share nothing but personal experience stories from now on! This other
site where I heard that has some people who have minor credentials, so
it was me being lazy to accept that one as truth and the others as
wacky. lol.

  #10  
Old August 17th 07, 04:11 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Lara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default Shaken, not swirled

JessicaG wrote:

It just amazes me that such misinformation (possibly) is allowed to
perpetuate and be taught as truth. I can imagine folks feeling guilty over
shaking the milk or getting scolded by a know-it-all when caught not
swirling. It's so silly when we have so much other stuff to worry and feel
guilty about!


Absolutely.

I know the commonsense test doesn't always apply, but think about this -
if protein antibodies were denatured and cells broken open by simple
hand agitation, how on earth could humans jog and white-water raft and
bungie jump?

Lara
 




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