Obtaining Custody

"Gini" wrote in message
news:QVMjf.366$Ia2.151@trndny05...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"~dudemaster" wrote in message
news:uMLjf.903$SM5.698@dukeread02...
Thanks! I've thought about this, but it "can't" be that easy... We
divorced
in Texas, I live in Virginia, and her mom in NC. Damn.. I can't afford
the
5 thousand an attorney wants either..

Here are a couple of the basics for you to look into.

1.) Which state has jurisdiction for a custody modification? Has the
original divorce proceeding file ever been transferred to another state
shifting jurisdiction or creating dual jurisdictions? If the original
custody order is from Texas and the file has not been transferred then
Texas
retains jurisdiction for any modification of their order until the file
is
transferred.

2.) Does Virginia law allow you to transfer a case to Virginia if the
child
resides in North Carolina? Usually the case file can be transferred to
the
state where the child resides.

There is more to this from a legal standpoint than just going down to
the
local courthouse and filing a motion to change custody.
====
Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the controlling Rules of Procedures (and the
fortitude of the
party). The one time we hired an atty., we lost big time.
====

The issue I raised is the application of the full faith and credit clause in
the constitution regarding recognition of a court order from another state
and the portability of court orders between states. Most family law issues
are governed by where the child resides rather than where a parent resides.
A parent can't just move to another state, file family law motions, and
force the other parent to come to that state to litigate the motion.

What the OP needs to figure out is where the jurisdiction currently resides.
That will tell him what to do next. It may be in his interest to wait until
the child resides with him before filing a change of jurisdiction or motion
to modify custody. That single action could influence the outcome.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
.net...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:QVMjf.366$Ia2.151@trndny05...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"~dudemaster" wrote in message
news:uMLjf.903$SM5.698@dukeread02...
Thanks! I've thought about this, but it "can't" be that easy... We
divorced
in Texas, I live in Virginia, and her mom in NC. Damn.. I can't
afford
the
5 thousand an attorney wants either..

Here are a couple of the basics for you to look into.

1.) Which state has jurisdiction for a custody modification? Has the
original divorce proceeding file ever been transferred to another state
shifting jurisdiction or creating dual jurisdictions? If the original
custody order is from Texas and the file has not been transferred then
Texas
retains jurisdiction for any modification of their order until the file
is
transferred.

2.) Does Virginia law allow you to transfer a case to Virginia if the
child
resides in North Carolina? Usually the case file can be transferred to
the
state where the child resides.

There is more to this from a legal standpoint than just going down to
the
local courthouse and filing a motion to change custody.
====
Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the controlling Rules of Procedures (and the
fortitude of the
party). The one time we hired an atty., we lost big time.
====

The issue I raised is the application of the full faith and credit clause
in
the constitution regarding recognition of a court order from another state
and the portability of court orders between states. Most family law
issues
are governed by where the child resides rather than where a parent
resides.
A parent can't just move to another state, file family law motions, and
force the other parent to come to that state to litigate the motion.

What the OP needs to figure out is where the jurisdiction currently
resides.
That will tell him what to do next. It may be in his interest to wait
until
the child resides with him before filing a change of jurisdiction or
motion
to modify custody. That single action could influence the outcome.
===
Right. That's what I said (I think :-). The parent doesn't need to follow
the child
to litigate. Interstate cases are a fact of life/law. The state in which the
child lives
is usually the controlling jurisdiction and that state exercises longarm
jurisdiction over the
nonresident parent. If that parent can't appear in person, he/she can
usually appear telephonically.
===

~dudemaster wrote:
Custody and child support are two different issues. First, get the
custody
order legally modified and recorded with the court. After that, file
a change in circumstances and have the child support modified based on
the new custody plan.


Thank you! This is good and wonderful advise. I'm going to do some
research on how to do this here in Virginia.

Since custody & CS was decided and documented in the divorce decree in Texas
(5yrs ago), I'm guessing that I would simply (or not so simply) goto the
court that deals with such issues in my city (VA Beach), speak to a clerk
(one of the nice ladies behind the bullet proof glass), and with my divorce
decree in hand I'll fill out whatever forms they give me...

I did come up with a legal form for my ex-wife to sign that indicates she is
giving me custody -- but she modified it to include that I agree to continue
to pay child support iaw the divorce decree. But, I'm keeping in the back
of my mind, she is violating the divorce decree by giving me custody to
begin with, which makes the agreement regarding the CS null.

Whew.. I'm trying to avoid an attorney -- I'm active duty military (18yrs)
and I'm not paid enough to afford one (and contrary to public myths, they
don't help us in cases like this either).


I asked my attorney this specific question and his advice is the same.
Judges don't like frequant changes in custody orders so once it's changed
and you have a permanent situation with custody, then go after the CS
change.


This makes absolute sense... I'm kind of walking into this blind, but I'm
doing so with my child's best interest at heart. I'll continue to pay the
support if I "have" to just so that I can have her, but what her mom is
asking is just -- well : "Yes, she is a greedy bitch.", thank you.. Well
stated grin

She's also a STUPID greedy bitch if she thinks she can keep you paying
CS after you've got physical custody.

More power to you!

- Ron ^*^

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:rDNjf.25321$ih5.2448@dukeread11...


~dudemaster wrote:
..........................

This makes absolute sense... I'm kind of walking into this blind, but
I'm doing so with my child's best interest at heart. I'll continue to
pay the support if I "have" to just so that I can have her, but what her
mom is asking is just -- well : "Yes, she is a greedy bitch.", thank
you.. Well stated grin

She's also a STUPID greedy bitch if she thinks she can keep you paying CS
after you've got physical custody.
===
That does tend to **** off judges.
===

Both of you have excellent points. I think the most important point is, I
can't apply for anything until after she is living with me and enrolled in
school. THEN, I think (with a vague understading of what you folks are
saying) I need to notify or file with the Virginia court the change of
custody and contend the child support agreement that was dictated by the
divorce decree.

After 3-5 months, if my daughter wants to continue to reside with me, I'll
appeal to the court for full custody, and allow the court to question my
daughter as to what her wishes are. At that point in time, 'filing" for
full custody. Like Bob said originally, custody being a seperate issue from
child support. Once (if) Virginia grants me full custody, then I'll appeal
the child support. Perhaps I can even use or threatn to sue the exwife to
have child support reversed to simply have her drop it. With the threat of
her having to actually pay ME child support, I think she will drop the
issue.

Thanks! I've thought about this, but it "can't" be that easy... We
divorced
in Texas, I live in Virginia, and her mom in NC. Damn.. I can't
afford
the
5 thousand an attorney wants either..

Here are a couple of the basics for you to look into.

1.) Which state has jurisdiction for a custody modification? Has the
original divorce proceeding file ever been transferred to another
state
shifting jurisdiction or creating dual jurisdictions? If the original
custody order is from Texas and the file has not been transferred then
Texas
retains jurisdiction for any modification of their order until the
file
is
transferred.

2.) Does Virginia law allow you to transfer a case to Virginia if the
child
resides in North Carolina? Usually the case file can be transferred to
the
state where the child resides.

There is more to this from a legal standpoint than just going down to
the
local courthouse and filing a motion to change custody.
====
Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the controlling Rules of Procedures (and
the
fortitude of the
party). The one time we hired an atty., we lost big time.
====

The issue I raised is the application of the full faith and credit clause
in
the constitution regarding recognition of a court order from another
state
and the portability of court orders between states. Most family law
issues
are governed by where the child resides rather than where a parent
resides.
A parent can't just move to another state, file family law motions, and
force the other parent to come to that state to litigate the motion.

What the OP needs to figure out is where the jurisdiction currently
resides.
That will tell him what to do next. It may be in his interest to wait
until
the child resides with him before filing a change of jurisdiction or
motion
to modify custody. That single action could influence the outcome.
===
Right. That's what I said (I think :-). The parent doesn't need to follow
the child
to litigate. Interstate cases are a fact of life/law. The state in which
the child lives
is usually the controlling jurisdiction and that state exercises longarm
jurisdiction over the
nonresident parent. If that parent can't appear in person, he/she can
usually appear telephonically.
===

Thanks Ron

Unfortunately, I'll likely end up paying "at least" 6 months worth of child
support (about $3,800) until I can (maybe) get the courts to drop it...
Until then, I'm saddled with the loving burden of paying for EVERYTHING with
NO support.

She's also a STUPID greedy bitch if she thinks she can keep you paying CS
after you've got physical custody.

More power to you!

- Ron ^*^

Ohhh.. Good Point... !! I didn't even think about how it would be looked at
by the court!!

She's also a STUPID greedy bitch if she thinks she can keep you paying CS
after you've got physical custody.
===
That does tend to **** off judges.
===

"Gini" wrote in message
news:7OKjf.697$2O1.435@trndny09...

"~dudemaster" wrote in message
news:uuKjf.898$SM5.493@dukeread02...
I kind of need a pointer here... (if that's ok)..

Background: I have an 11yr old daughter who lives with her mom, child
custody was awarded in our divorce decree along with child support.

I'm one of those good dads who lives 270miles away, but sees his little
girl several times per month, holidays and summer time.

Well, she want's to live with dad, but mom hasn't let her. Mom isn't a
bad mother, daughter and mom just don't get along.

Mom just decided to let dad have custody beginning this next half of
the
school year!! (Hurrayy!!!) One catch... Dad must continue to pay mom
child support because she is a greedy bitch.... (did I just write
that?)

We were divorced in a state that doesn't believe in alimony, and she
has
since remarried anyway (going through ANOTHER divorce) and she claims
she
really needs the money....

Well -- I (dad) agreed because (I) dad loves his daughter and would do
anything to have her.

The bottom line is, how can I get her and not pay child support too???
It
just doesn't seem fair.... If I have to pay it AND Have custody, then
so
be it.. But, what kind of rights to I have and what kind of precedence
is
there
====
File for custody and support *after* the child is with you (without
telling
anyone beforehand)
====

But wait six months so a "status quo" has been established

"~dudemaster" wrote in message
news:tuMjf.916$SM5.521@dukeread02...
Again, this is all excellent advise...!! I will have custody beginning on
Christmas Day, with no end in sight. Our agreement (on paper) is until
the end of Summer School (and school year 06) which would put her with me
slightly longer than 6 months. Even after that, knowing her mother, I'll
probably continue to keep her for the remainder of the year. My daughter
doesn't want to go back because the situation for her at her mom's is very
unpleasant for her.

That being said, I'm going to start researching the VA state custody
statutes beginning tomorrow, and before lunch tomorrow -- I'm taking a
trip to the court house and see if there is something that I should file
either before hand or after my daughter comes to live with me. I want to
ensure that her stay with me is documented with the courts (somehow).
Perhaps they'll just tell me the fact she is enrolled in school is enough
documentation, I don't know...

Like you said, because we reside here in VA, then I think their courts
should decide. However, her mom (and her) reside in NC, and we divorced
in the state of TX 5yrs ago --- "AND" I'm active duty military (18yrs --
almost done) so there are some strange variables involved.

I know her mom can't afford a court battle, and I have an enormous amount
of credit with NONE of it used, so I can afford a pretty good fight
grin, but I'd prefer not to have one.

I just keep reminding myself, that it's for my daughter. If she changed
her mind and decided to go back to mom at the end of the school year, then
I'd help her go. But I don't think that will happen (miserable situation
there).

Ironically I called the county in Texas where we got our decree yesterday,
and I talked to three different women who, when they realized I was a
"Man" paying child support, refused to help or have anything to do with
me. I'm afraid that dead-beat-dads have set such a tone, that many child
support offices have stereotyped all men as being dead-beat (sadly).

I can't say that I agree with you on this issue. How many deadbeats do you
think there actually are? Certainly not as many as "statistics" might say.
My husband is labeled a "deadbeat" because, amazingly, he didn't pay child
support on a child that he NEVER KNEW EXISTED until she was almost 13!! No
court order existed, either. He's never missed a payment since we found
out--yet the welfare mommy is considered to be a "brave single mom"
struggling to support all of her out-of-wedlock children on the taxpayers'
dime. And my husband, deprived of his daughter's growing up years, is seen
as the deadbeat! When they first garnisheed his paycheck, without a word to
him (they'd published in the paper of the county and state we'd lived in
years before) I called around trying to get info, but when they found out
what I wanted, would not speak to me at all. I ended up getting direction
from a woman who was filling at lunch at the child support office, and she
told me what to do and who to see because she had gone through almost
exactly the same thing several years before. She told me not to say
anything about her giving me the info, because she would be fired! It's not
deadbeats causing the problem--it's the system that needs ever more money to
keep itself fed. And who better than NCP dads to feed on!!!!

I've never
missed a payment or a chance to see my baby girl. Hell, I've but about
2000 miles a month on my car every year for the last 5 years in visitation
(except when I was deployed)... I'm ranting aren't I? (sorry....)

Thank you Gigi
LT

If the child lives with you, VA should be the controlling state although
I've seen some courts wiggle
out of this by not wanting to muddy the waters of two different states
having jurisdiction over one child.
You might do best to wait 6 months or so after the child is
with you and enrolled in school--Courts don't like to uproot kids in
school.
But...The first thing you need to do is research VA family law
statutes--Study them thoroughly.
Don't worry about child support until there is a custody hearing. If you
are awarded custody, you can petition to have
support ended in DC or wherever that case is. You can then file for
support from your ex in VA. Most states have
now streamlined their family courts to accomodate parents representing
themselves but you must KNOW your state's
statutes and the Rules of Procedure which are critical. If you wait 6
months to file for custody, you have time
to learn the statutes and procedures and will have an idea of whether you
are comfortable doing it without an attorney.
Many of us here have done our own filings but that isn't the right route
for everyone. There are many many variables.
During that 6 months, you should also stockpile cash. That said, there
may already be statutes that discontinue child support
for extended "visits" with the NCP. In Florida, support is reduced 50%
for visits over 30 days. What is the *current* controlling
state/jurisdiction?
====


"Gini" wrote in message
news:7OKjf.697$2O1.435@trndny09...

"~dudemaster" wrote in message
news:uuKjf.898$SM5.493@dukeread02...
I kind of need a pointer here... (if that's ok)..

Background: I have an 11yr old daughter who lives with her mom, child
custody was awarded in our divorce decree along with child support.

I'm one of those good dads who lives 270miles away, but sees his
little girl several times per month, holidays and summer time.

Well, she want's to live with dad, but mom hasn't let her. Mom isn't
a bad mother, daughter and mom just don't get along.

Mom just decided to let dad have custody beginning this next half of
the school year!! (Hurrayy!!!) One catch... Dad must continue to pay
mom child support because she is a greedy bitch.... (did I just write
that?)

We were divorced in a state that doesn't believe in alimony, and she
has since remarried anyway (going through ANOTHER divorce) and she
claims she really needs the money....

Well -- I (dad) agreed because (I) dad loves his daughter and would do
anything to have her.

The bottom line is, how can I get her and not pay child support too???
It just doesn't seem fair.... If I have to pay it AND Have custody,
then so be it.. But, what kind of rights to I have and what kind of
precedence is there
====
File for custody and support *after* the child is with you (without
telling anyone beforehand)
====

Yep, that's the way it is.

I... ahem... heard of someone who recently posted here who was in a
similar situation.

- Ron ^*^


~dudemaster wrote:

Thanks Ron

Unfortunately, I'll likely end up paying "at least" 6 months worth of child
support (about $3,800) until I can (maybe) get the courts to drop it...
Until then, I'm saddled with the loving burden of paying for EVERYTHING with
NO support.


She's also a STUPID greedy bitch if she thinks she can keep you paying CS
after you've got physical custody.

More power to you!

- Ron ^*^