Natural consequences.

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006, Carlson LaVonne wrote:



0:- wrote:
Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Kane,

Becca made a common error in her interpretation of natural consequences.
She strayed into punitive discipline.


Well, I was 22 when we had our first child. I can't count the number of
times over the early years when I did the same. We go with what we
know.

Yes, we do. And there were times when I thought I was using logical
consequences when I was really straying into the punitive area. My
youngest, now 23, has seldom turned off a light in her life. I'm not
the best, either. When she was 7 or 8, I decided that if she left her
light on when she went to school, I would keep part of her allowance
money. Not understanding the principle of electricity costing money,
she perceived this as a punishment, which I learned when I overheard her
telling her friends that she had no money because she was being punished
for leaving the lights on. Children are the best teachers.

becca works toward knowledge, and risks making mistakes. How we all
learn.

Mistakes are how we all learn, and I learned about my mistake with the
lights.

Well, except Doan. He won't make any effort to contribute for fear
he'll do as he's always done; be wrong. And as a spanked child, as you
can see from his posting, he's extremely careful in this area --
compulsive even.

He was the inspiration for my title for spankers: "Cumpulsives."

And I understand why.

When I was a young parent someone, and of course I can't recall who,
could have been me, could have anyone, noticed something and stated it.
Which is more important, the child or the "thing?"

Obviously the most important thing is the child. For me, the "thing"
was the lights.

Getting to the point of letting go, given how so many of us were
raised, is no small task. And letting go of "control" and moving to a
partnership, each doing their part, the child and the parent, is pretty
hard until one becomes accustomed to it.

But it felt so good, Kane. I finally understood the issue of the
lights. I reminded her to turn off the lights. When she forgot, I
turned them off. I made a bigger effort to remember turning off the
lights. She reminded me. It was a partnership, and there were no more
fights, no more control issues, and no more punishment -- even though I
didn't view the consequences as punishment at the time.

You have the advantage of having been there. I'd like others to
experience that.

Yes, I've been there.

I worry that Doan might have children one day. He never listens, only
speaks. He focuses on "mistakes" or disagreement and for purposes of
disruption labels such things "lies."

It's fascinating, after having worked with the populations I did, to
see how one that likely got no help, turns out as an adult.

I wonder choice he will make when the time comes. Will he spank? Or am
I being to nosey?

Are you sure the time hasn't come? Are you sure Doan has no children?
I know I fear for any children he has, or may have in the future. While
I know nothing of Doan's childhood, what he has revealed on the ng
certainly fits the profile of a spanked and probably legally abused
child who received no help. He hasn't learned to listen, and he never
admits mistakes. It is personally frightening to admit a mistake, and
when one is very fragile due to one's childhood, admitting a mistake
becomes unthinkable. Verbal attacks allow one to perceive he or she is
in control, and the attacker seems to feel the he/she is covering up
personal pain and insecurity.

LaVonne

Hahaha! What a hypocirt! From what you have revealed here about your
childhood, Lavonne, what you said above more aptly apply to you!
Tell me, were you "legally abused"? ;-)

Gee, doan't, I hate to remind you but when I asked about your
"personal" life you accused me of sticking my nose in people's asses.

Don't you remember....or has spanking created selective memory in your
poor childish mind?

0:-


Doan