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#131
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teenager breaking curfew
"Chookie" wrote in message news:ehrebeniuk-89492B.19521514032008@news... In article , "Stephanie" wrote: My overall point is that many parents, especially in more socially conservative countries, try to structure the lives of their children, even their adult children, to reduce the chance of bad things happening. We all have values. We all attempt to instill them in our children. By the time the children reach adulthood, it makes more sense to allow those values to take shape of their own. Controlling the lives of adult children so that they don't disappoint the *parent* is counter-productive to the job of growing up. which is the child's concern. And *you're* not culture-bound either... When I was at Uni, I met one girl (an overseas student from SE Asia) who was studying accountancy because the family business required it. She yearned to be an interior designer, but I would imagine that back home, she was less conflicted about it. In many Asian societies, the elders have a great deal of say in how the adult children run their lives. Some cultures value solidarity over independence, and probably see Western individualism as rather bratty and self-centred. Just because something is part of a culture does not mean I have to agree with it or think it is a positive force in the world. Our culture has plenty that is stupid about it. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#132
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teenager breaking curfew
In article ehrebeniuk-89492B.19521514032008@news, Chookie says...
In article , "Stephanie" wrote: My overall point is that many parents, especially in more socially conservative countries, try to structure the lives of their children, even their adult children, to reduce the chance of bad things happening. We all have values. We all attempt to instill them in our children. By the time the children reach adulthood, it makes more sense to allow those values to take shape of their own. Controlling the lives of adult children so that they don't disappoint the *parent* is counter-productive to the job of growing up. which is the child's concern. And *you're* not culture-bound either... When I was at Uni, I met one girl (an overseas student from SE Asia) who was studying accountancy because the family business required it. She yearned to be an interior designer, but I would imagine that back home, she was less conflicted about it. In many Asian societies, the elders have a great deal of say in how the adult children run their lives. Some cultures value solidarity over independence, and probably see Western individualism as rather bratty and self-centred. True, and good point. I see many such differences in the relationship with families of my engineering colleagues from India and China and other countries. There are huge benefits and huge burdens to either - the culture that values individualism, and the culture that values solidarity. While American born parents are looking for childcare, my Indian and Chinese colleagues can hardly stop their own parents from flying half way around the world to take up residence to care for their grandchildren. While my American born friends and colleagues were scratching together down payments for houses, waiting until well into their thirties (or, more recently, just going in way over their heads in their 20's), my Indian and Chinese colleagues go straight to the realtor with hefty funds from their parents. Those without family means are benefitted in similar ways, children (especially the eldest) are fostered into their lives' occupations using the connections of their parents. A culture that *only* demanded from the younger to the elder couldn't sustain. Which is better? I dunno. Independant souls like myself would likely chafe and be very unhappy in a solidarity society (but I don't even know that for sure); those who are lost for lack of direction in our society and flounder, may well have thrived in such a society. But in this newsgroup most of the people are western, or at the least will be raising their children in a western society. I miss Rupa Bose and others who had a wide view. Banty |
#133
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teenager breaking curfew
In article ,
"Stephanie" wrote: Controlling the lives of adult children so that they don't disappoint the *parent* is counter-productive to the job of growing up. which is the child's concern. In many Asian societies, the elders have a great deal of say in how the adult children run their lives. Some cultures value solidarity over independence, and probably see Western individualism as rather bratty and self-centred. Just because something is part of a culture does not mean I have to agree with it or think it is a positive force in the world. Our culture has plenty that is stupid about it. Indeed -- but it helps to recognise that your definitions about what constitutes growing up, or what are the important milestones in child development (just to pick two examples) are set by your culture, and may not apply in others -- or even in subcultures within your own culture. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#134
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teenager breaking curfew
On 11 Mar 2008 17:21:11 -0700, Banty wrote:
In article , toypup says... On 11 Mar 2008 11:58:45 -0700, Banty wrote: In article , Barbara says... On Mar 11, 1:47=A0pm, Banty wrote: In article , Stephanie says.= .. Ericka Kammerer wrote: Banty wrote: In article , Ericka Kammerer says... enigma wrote: =A0are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well, except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all night to get there & back. =A0most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the library until it closed at 1am. =A0is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party types get more press? I think both sorts occur in abundance. The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-) They do? =A0I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. =A0Not by a long shot. That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up. Actually, I'd disagree with that. =A0There are plenty of folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno, a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) =A0There are also plenty who do. =A0Takes all sorts, and all that. Best wishes, Ericka It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that. Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still cou= ld fall back on their parents if need be. I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm sti= ll around (meaning my kid is still around home). =A0It makes zero sense to me= to have it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the house= hold. There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at th= at age (being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-). But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had = one and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild eno= ugh to need it but won't be cooperating. At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew? Marriage? =A0(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daught= ers.) College when there's just nothing you can do about it? =A0Where's that tra= nsition time? I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20. I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents. The bright line is drawn by many areas of the law, first of all. In recognition of where development is at that point for most. Its also a strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out* I don't think everyone thinks so, or that anyone necessarily thinks so, and didn't pose it as a strawman. Some here *have* said so, and I think that that, when it's said, is contradictory. But I'm not arguing "those who support a curfew at 18 also think x and I'll shoot that down." Because I don't think that's what some others are saying. I expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited to restricting access to cash and vehicles. Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews? Overnight camp under close adult supervision is quite a different thing from a curfew. (Now, that *would* be a strawman - "you said curfews at 18 are bad because that means kids can't go on overnight camp at age 8.") Banty Her point being 18 is arbitrary. It could go the other way and be 21. Why not 21? Why not 27, then? Banty Why not? |
#135
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teenager breaking curfew
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:24:05 -0700 (PDT), Beliavsky wrote:
I think Chris's general point, that is almost never a need to be out and about at 2 AM, and that there are considerable risks to doing so, is perfectly valid. I think it is more dangerous for people in general to be out in the middle of the night. Lest everyone jump on me for thinking there is a serial killer around every corner, I do not. However, criminals do enjoy working more at night under the cover of darkness. If your were a criminal, when would you murder, rape, rob so that there are few witnesses? I read that 2 am was the most dangerous time to be driving on the roads. More drunk drivers are out at night after the bars close and they have to get themselves home. And for parents worried about teen pregnancy -- yes, sex can happen at anytime of day -- but I do believe the majority of people tend to have more sex at night, maybe because there are fewer distractions, I don't know. |
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