Crying at a daycare

Our 15 month kid just started at daycare. She is screaming when we
leave her and also off and on during the few hours she stays(we haves
tarted with few hours a day). We hear that this is the way(crying)
toddlers adjust to a new environment because of separation anxiety but
this is very difficult to see our kid crying. Is it ok for her to go
through this? Will it have any bad effect because of the crying?
How do we help her adjust at the daycare better?
Thanks in advance,

"New Mommy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Our 15 month kid just started at daycare. She is screaming when we
leave her and also off and on during the few hours she stays(we haves
tarted with few hours a day). We hear that this is the way(crying)
toddlers adjust to a new environment because of separation anxiety but
this is very difficult to see our kid crying. Is it ok for her to go
through this? Will it have any bad effect because of the crying?
How do we help her adjust at the daycare better?
Thanks in advance,


I think it is. You will find many who disagree. I don't think you can
predict whether there will be a noticeable bad effect on any particular
child in adulthood. This article goes along with my personal beliefs.

http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

Dagny

On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:53:44 -0400, "Dagny"
wrote:
I think it is. You will find many who disagree. I don't think you can
predict whether there will be a noticeable bad effect on any particular
child in adulthood. This article goes along with my personal beliefs.

http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

That is a heartbreaking article. There was a time I didn't have any
other option for a few months except daycare, and my mom ended up
quitting her job and babysitting my daughter. It was horrible for me,
it is true that even the "good" daycares are not good enough. The best
daycare that everyone talked about was just like in the
article...babies lined up to be fed and changed like an assembly line.
Not being held if they cried because the workers were busy with other
babies. Bottles were propped, babies were left in the bouncy seats as
long as they didn't need anything done to them. I was so grateful to
my mom for her sacrifice and I felt so normal when I met dh and didn't
work anymore so I could take care of my baby myself. That was 10 years
ago and it still makes my heart ache.
Marie

Well, the crying is somehow 'normal' because most kids who get so
attached to the parents do the same thing as yours. I think she'll get
over it later, just don't expect a sooner one cause you might just get
disappointed. But I believe she will.

That happens to my SIL's daughter. It took her half a month. After
that, the baby just got well adjusted.

Just make sure you get the best daycare so far...

Good luck!

love,
nina
http://asweetnectarwomb.lipblogs.com

DD had a lot of trouble at that age adjusting to her mother's day out.
It was 2 days a week for 5 hours. She did OK the first day, but after
that she just cried until I came to get her. I know they treated her
very well there, you could check on them any time, and she was always
being cuddled or rocked, lots of love and attention. The program was
great, and we decided to try an hour or two at a time while she got
used to it. For a month I thought it was a complete waste of time,and
felt very guilty for leaving her there when I didn't "have to" for
work. She would cry for an hour til I came and got her. Then, we
missed a week, and after we went back, she loved it, ran right in,
played all day, and never cried there again for the rest of the year.
I'm an SAHM, and it was a great experience for both of us- I got some
free time to get things done, and I think she learned a lot from the
other kids. I'm glad we stuck it out.

I hope you are able to make it work. Sounds like you are doing all the
right things. Tips I got from others with the same trouble were to
always say goodbye, remind them that "Mommy always comes back" and then
leave quickly even if they are crying. When you get back, remind them
again that Mommy always comes back. It's nice if you have the luxury
of starting with short stays. A lovey doesn't hurt either if they have
one.

JJ

On Thu, 18 May 2006, Dagny wrote:
http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

This really is a heartbreaking article and (as I sit here at work reading
it) I want to cry. I'm one of the lucky ones. My provider is at home with
no more than two other kids with my two year old. I can call in whenever,
and if I wanted to I could stop in whenever. She is SUPER responsive and
my kid LOVES her, and she's very fond of the other kids too.

Unfortunately, the article tells us about all the hell and badness of the
child care industry, but it doesn't tell us what to do to stop it --
either by quitting our jobs as those 9 moms could, or by finding quality
care. Let's face it, the 9 women who simply quit their job rather than
keeping their kids in quality care on site very probably didn't have to
sell their homes to make this decision. I'm betting none of them are on
welfare now. Single parents and many dual income parents don't have the
luxury of simply shrugging off a job. Frequently, it's a choice between a
residence in a neighborhood without driveby shootings and drugs on the
corner vs. mom staying home. Or keeping decent health insurance *and* a
decent income vs. one parent being the fulltime caregiver. Frankly, the
system is broken, and tragically, it's nothing new. Historically, kids
and capitalism have battled it out and the kids always get the short end
of the stick -- sometimes literally what with child work conditions 200
years ago.

Every week I get very afraid when I hear how my sitter is having financial
problems because I know so am I and I cannot pay her any more. I'm just
hoping we can hold on together until things get better for all of us.

In article . com,
"New Mommy" wrote:

Our 15 month kid just started at daycare. She is screaming when we
leave her and also off and on during the few hours she stays(we haves
tarted with few hours a day). We hear that this is the way(crying)
toddlers adjust to a new environment because of separation anxiety but
this is very difficult to see our kid crying. Is it ok for her to go
through this? Will it have any bad effect because of the crying?
How do we help her adjust at the daycare better?

Say goodbye in the same way every time: eg settle her into an actiity, or
hand her to a carer, give a hug and kiss, say, "Have a good day! I will be
picking you up after lunch", and walk out with a smile. NEVER sneak out.
It's deceitful, and frightening for the child, who doesn't know when you'll
next just disappear.

If the staff haven't told you this, and if they don't appear to be coping with
a child's perfectly normal reaction to being left with relative strangers, you
might want to change centres. There should be a carer welcoming her with a
smile and inviting her to join in an activity.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

In article ,
T Flynn wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006, Dagny wrote:
http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

This really is a heartbreaking article

I found it irritating in some respects and prone to overgeneralisation.

I found the references to the eevul liberals tedious and inaccurate. Day care
is not a left/right issue, at least not here. Our right-leaning government
has been pushing people to use day care centres through its benefit
arrangements, and there is no government support for funding longer maternity
leaves -- certainly not for the 3 years mentioned in the article! This means
that women in the lower ranks of the job market are back at work at 6 weeks pp
or they give up paid work. Women at the lucky end, like me, might be able to
afford some years of Leave WithOut Pay, but that can cause you professional
problems when you do return to work.

Unfortunately, the article tells us about all the hell and badness of the
child care industry, but it doesn't tell us what to do to stop it [...]
welfare now. Single parents and many dual income parents don't have the
luxury of simply shrugging off a job.

Indeed. And while regulation doesn't guarantee a brilliant day care (that's
down to the quality of staff), it does prevent some problems, so deregulating
is hardly a sensible suggestion. IIRC the Australian staff:child ratios are
1:3 for infants, 1:5 for 1-3yos, and 1:10 for 4-5yos. But that is AT ALL
TIMES. That is, the ratio has to stay at that level when staff are going to
the loo, eating lunch, etc, which of course means that you would be likely to
see, say, 4 carers for 14 toddlers. We also have mandatory outdoor space
requirements, so children aren't stuck inside all day with no gross motor
development. IOW, the 'good' dccs are not as 'bad' as the article makes out
-- not here, anyway -- *purely* because of the regulations.

Bad day cares still exist -- my DS1 was in one for six months. But the lack
of care seemed to me to be the result of staff/management attitude. They sat
loose to some of the regulations, they deceived me... and I think some of the
staff were just thick.

Frequently, it's a choice between a
residence in a neighborhood without driveby shootings and drugs on the
corner vs. mom staying home.

Do you USers have a serious problem with police corruption? We just don't
have that sort of neighbourhood *anywhere*. That's not to say we have no
social problems, but we don't have it so much in public as you people seem to.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Chookie wrote:
In article ,
T Flynn wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006, Dagny wrote:
http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

This really is a heartbreaking article

I found it irritating in some respects and prone to overgeneralisation.

There's a part of me that started to glaze over when reading about the
researcher who went through 10 caregivers within 2 years...There's a
part of me that said, yep, I know what's coming. Yep, children cared
for during the Blitz b/c their parents were dead and homes were bombed
out did seem unduly disturbed, yep, yep, gotcha. Yep, some places are
understaffed, yep, some parents seem less-than-optimal. Wow.

I found the references to the eevul liberals tedious and inaccurate. Day care
is not a left/right issue, at least not here.

I'd say it's a vaguely left/right issue here -- the left promoting
daycare and family leave, the right subtly promoting SAHMs. (e.g., If I
took a job at Wal-Mart and earned 10k a year, I'd be taxed at 33% based
on spouse's tax rate.)

Our right-leaning government
has been pushing people to use day care centres through its benefit
arrangements, and there is no government support for funding longer maternity
leaves -- certainly not for the 3 years mentioned in the article! This means
that women in the lower ranks of the job market are back at work at 6 weeks pp
or they give up paid work.

There's technically no maternity leave here -- there's disability leave
(alas, the only time I really really wanted a C-Section was when I read
that with a C you're considered disabled for longer than a vag
birth...Hmmm, another angle on the rise of C-Sections in the US?) with
partial pay (or no pay), and FMLA (no pay).

Women at the lucky end, like me, might be able to
afford some years of Leave WithOut Pay, but that can cause you professional
problems when you do return to work.

Unfortunately, the article tells us about all the hell and badness of the
child care industry, but it doesn't tell us what to do to stop it [...]
welfare now. Single parents and many dual income parents don't have the
luxury of simply shrugging off a job.

Indeed. And while regulation doesn't guarantee a brilliant day care (that's
down to the quality of staff), it does prevent some problems, so deregulating
is hardly a sensible suggestion. IIRC the Australian staff:child ratios are
1:3 for infants, 1:5 for 1-3yos, and 1:10 for 4-5yos. But that is AT ALL
TIMES. That is, the ratio has to stay at that level when staff are going to
the loo, eating lunch, etc, which of course means that you would be likely to
see, say, 4 carers for 14 toddlers. We also have mandatory outdoor space
requirements, so children aren't stuck inside all day with no gross motor
development. IOW, the 'good' dccs are not as 'bad' as the article makes out
-- not here, anyway -- *purely* because of the regulations.

Bad day cares still exist -- my DS1 was in one for six months. But the lack
of care seemed to me to be the result of staff/management attitude. They sat
loose to some of the regulations, they deceived me... and I think some of the
staff were just thick.
Frequently, it's a choice between a
residence in a neighborhood without driveby shootings and drugs on the
corner vs. mom staying home.

Do you USers have a serious problem with police corruption? We just don't
have that sort of neighbourhood *anywhere*. That's not to say we have no
social problems, but we don't have it so much in public as you people seem to.

I'm not sure how police corruption ties into drive-by
shootings...without knowing (much), I'd say that police corruption is
no more or less present here than in other countries. I think -- again,
with little background -- that the US's gun control is less stringent
(and in many cases, I applaud this, esp. w/r/t warrantless searches)
than in Australia. Dunno. I also know that there are neighborhoods
where there's a lack of police presence (and a lack of jobs, and
younameit, coupled with more violence) -- but aren't there camps in
Australia with the same issues? (Again, my knowledge of Australia -- as
in 'learned in school' versus from talking to Australians -- stops
around elementary school. )

Caledonia

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T Flynn wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006, Dagny wrote:
http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

This really is a heartbreaking article

I found it irritating in some respects and prone to overgeneralisation.

I found the references to the eevul liberals tedious and inaccurate. Day
care
is not a left/right issue, at least not here. Our right-leaning
government
has been pushing people to use day care centres through its benefit
arrangements, and there is no government support for funding longer
maternity
leaves -- certainly not for the 3 years mentioned in the article! This
means
that women in the lower ranks of the job market are back at work at 6
weeks pp
or they give up paid work. Women at the lucky end, like me, might be able
to
afford some years of Leave WithOut Pay, but that can cause you
professional
problems when you do return to work.

Unfortunately, the article tells us about all the hell and badness of
the
child care industry, but it doesn't tell us what to do to stop it [...]
welfare now. Single parents and many dual income parents don't have the
luxury of simply shrugging off a job.

Indeed. And while regulation doesn't guarantee a brilliant day care
(that's
down to the quality of staff), it does prevent some problems, so
deregulating
is hardly a sensible suggestion. IIRC the Australian staff:child ratios
are
1:3 for infants, 1:5 for 1-3yos, and 1:10 for 4-5yos. But that is AT ALL
TIMES. That is, the ratio has to stay at that level when staff are going
to
the loo, eating lunch, etc, which of course means that you would be likely
to
see, say, 4 carers for 14 toddlers. We also have mandatory outdoor space
requirements, so children aren't stuck inside all day with no gross motor
development. IOW, the 'good' dccs are not as 'bad' as the article makes
out
-- not here, anyway -- *purely* because of the regulations.

And, despite the article, this is the situation in the USA, too-and this is
from someone who has worked in and out of licensed daycares for years.
Actually, you're much more likely to get a bad situation with an unlicensed
home care provider because there is no oversight-that's where the one person
caring for 11 kids stories come from. I once worked in a head start center
which had been set up because the state had found one older woman who was
truly trying to do her best with just about every child in the neighborhood.
Since there were no other good options, a local businessman offered a
building for use, and the local head start agency hired several college and
graduate students to come in and assist this lady (who I think I learned
more about child development from than any college or grad school
professor). TN has a state rating system with enough loopholes to drive a
truck through-but one thing I like about it is that in order to get the top
rating, not only does the center have to exceed the minimum CSRs, they have
to do so with consistent caregivers for each group.

I've only worked in one truly BAD daycare (for one summer in college)-and
then, it wasn't the staff but the management. The center was operating under
recievership in bankruptcy, so NO money was spent out which wasn't
absolutely necessary. One side effect of this was that in order to maintain
the absolute minimum ratios, they'd combine groups and shift staff around at
the drop of a hat, so while I was technically a 2/3 yr old teacher, I might
spend the mornings with the infants, then assist at lunch with my toddlers,
then be shifted to the 6-12 yr olds when they got out of school. Staff would
also be sent home early if kids were picked up early, and working as many as
12 hours in a day (only to have that time "flexed" over the rest of the pay
period so they didn't have to pay overtime) because they'd miscalculated
and sent too many people home. Not too surprisingly, none of the kids really
knew any of the staff well, and the staff didn't know the kids and their
individual quirks at all well.


Bad day cares still exist -- my DS1 was in one for six months. But the
lack
of care seemed to me to be the result of staff/management attitude. They
sat
loose to some of the regulations, they deceived me... and I think some of
the
staff were just thick.

Frequently, it's a choice between a
residence in a neighborhood without driveby shootings and drugs on the
corner vs. mom staying home.

Do you USers have a serious problem with police corruption? We just don't
have that sort of neighbourhood *anywhere*. That's not to say we have no
social problems, but we don't have it so much in public as you people seem
to.

The problem comes from housing costs. In general, you can only get
subsidized housing in certain neighborhoods, usually where the government
has built housing projects. Then, the houses around the area go down in
value, and often become low price rentals, and the neighborhood really
falters badly. Normally, there simply isn't enough funding put into police
coverage to keep crime down, because if the police concentrate on the really
bad areas at the cost of letting minor things slide in the more expensive
areas, the people who pay more taxes whine about not getting coverage and
refuse to pay more money when more is needed. So, as a result, certain areas
become really bad-slums, ghettos, and barrios. I've spent a large part of my
teaching career in ghetto and barrio schools, and in a few of these schools,
we couldn't let the children outside to play unless it was in a walled
courtyard because of the risk of getting caught in the crossfire. I've also
taught at schools where we had no night events because, while it was
reasonably safe to be outside during the day (and we could let the children
play, etc), at night, the drug dealers came out and it got quite dangerous.

The best thing which ever happened with my former school was that the
principal, hearing complaints in the news about funding for a police
department substation/dispatching station, offered space in the school
building for it. As a result, we had much increased police presence, which
made the whole neighborhood safer (and, after a few years of this, we got
our precinct station-right on the same block as the school).


--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You
may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue