Am I being paranoid?

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:20:26 -0500, Ericka Kammerer wrote:

toypup wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:05:46 -0800 (PST), Beliavsky wrote:

If you look at international comparisons of students on tests,
American children do pretty well in the early grades but fall behind
by high school. This suggests to me that the parenting practices of
most middle class Americans are not impairing kids intellectually.
Maybe you are being paranoid .

I wonder who they test when they do these tests. I wonder if American kids
do well early on because all the kids get tested early on. I wonder if we
do worse later because we test everyone, including special ed kids, while
kids in some other countries can't even attend high school unless their
parents have money or they have passed rigorous tests. Do they test the
kids in other countries like they do in the USA? Does it include kids
tracked into trade schools and non-academic persuits? Maybe kids in some
of those countries have a very high drop-out rate in high school and you're
only testing the cream of the crop.

There are boatloads of these studies, and they are
done with many different methodologies. Some of the studies are
apples to apples, and some aren't. There are differences, even
with the apples-to-apples tests, but that isn't particularly
surprising since different countries have different priorities,
different curricula, and different expectations.

So, is the USA really that far off in the apples-to-appples tests? And I
do agree the priorities are different in the USA. Getting a well-rounded
education isn't a concern in some countries.

My parents thought education trumped everything. We had no chores, because
education was so important. I understand that is the case in many
cultures. I know of many kids raised like that. When people get upset
over certain cultures doing better, I have them consider what is being
sacrificed. It is not without cost.

Psalm Nuclei wrote in

ups.com:

Is a little tv here and there and a lick of a lollipop here
or there going to hurt our 6 month old?

not at all. candy isn't a good idea for a 6 month old but it
won't hurt him to have a taste. since you made it clear that
the sitter isn't to give him candy, you should just forget
about it.
watching a 5 minute segment of Sesame Street, or any other
preschool tv show also isn't going to harm him in any way. it
*may* keep him amused while the sitter goes to the toilet, but
for the most part a 6 month old won't be the least interested
in TV.
i think you tend to overthink this parenting thing.
seriously, have FUN with your child. enjoy him. he'll grow up
faster than you'll believe.
lee

toypup wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:20:26 -0500, Ericka Kammerer wrote:

toypup wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:05:46 -0800 (PST), Beliavsky wrote:

If you look at international comparisons of students on tests,
American children do pretty well in the early grades but fall behind
by high school. This suggests to me that the parenting practices of
most middle class Americans are not impairing kids intellectually.
Maybe you are being paranoid .
I wonder who they test when they do these tests. I wonder if American kids
do well early on because all the kids get tested early on. I wonder if we
do worse later because we test everyone, including special ed kids, while
kids in some other countries can't even attend high school unless their
parents have money or they have passed rigorous tests. Do they test the
kids in other countries like they do in the USA? Does it include kids
tracked into trade schools and non-academic persuits? Maybe kids in some
of those countries have a very high drop-out rate in high school and you're
only testing the cream of the crop.
There are boatloads of these studies, and they are
done with many different methodologies. Some of the studies are
apples to apples, and some aren't. There are differences, even
with the apples-to-apples tests, but that isn't particularly
surprising since different countries have different priorities,
different curricula, and different expectations.

So, is the USA really that far off in the apples-to-appples tests?

Depends on the apples being compared ;-) There are
scenarios in which US students fare better and scenarios in
which they fare worse. Which are more important depends on
which skills you think are most important overall.

And I
do agree the priorities are different in the USA. Getting a well-rounded
education isn't a concern in some countries.

My parents thought education trumped everything. We had no chores, because
education was so important. I understand that is the case in many
cultures. I know of many kids raised like that. When people get upset
over certain cultures doing better, I have them consider what is being
sacrificed. It is not without cost.

Absolutely.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Nov 28, 11:10 am, Psalm Nuclei wrote:

Is a little tv here and there and a lick of a lollipop here or there
going to hurt our 6 month old?

I'm about as virulently anti-TV as they come, but even I don't think 5
minutes a day is a big deal.

I agree -- you need to relax. If you have issues with this babysitter
I don't think they're really about the lollipop and the 5 minutes of
TV. If those really are all the issues, then you just need to relax
and remember that kids aren't really all that fragile, otherwise we'd
all be completely messed up.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 4 years old
and something brewing, 4/08

Akuvikate wrote:
On Nov 28, 11:10 am, Psalm Nuclei wrote:

Is a little tv here and there and a lick of a lollipop here or there
going to hurt our 6 month old?

I'm about as virulently anti-TV as they come, but even I don't think 5
minutes a day is a big deal.


I'm pretty sure I could fall in love with the Bear in the Blue House and
most children I've seen are engaged in positive ways by TV designed for
pre-schoolers but I can't see a six month old baby being affected either by
way TV, especially with only a few minutes of it. Any harm is going to come
from the fact he isn't doing something more worthwhile like exploring his
world, practising his motor control and interacting with other people.


I agree -- you need to relax. If you have issues with this babysitter
I don't think they're really about the lollipop and the 5 minutes of
TV. If those really are all the issues, then you just need to relax
and remember that kids aren't really all that fragile, otherwise we'd
all be completely messed up.

Yep and having another baby would fix this kind of first-child fussing!



Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 4 years old
and something brewing, 4/08

Congratulations!

On Nov 28, 3:56 pm, toypup wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:05:46 -0800 (PST), Beliavsky wrote:
If you look at international comparisons of students on tests,
American children do pretty well in the early grades but fall behind
by high school. This suggests to me that the parenting practices of
most middle class Americans are not impairing kids intellectually.
Maybe you are being paranoid .

I wonder who they test when they do these tests. I wonder if American kids
do well early on because all the kids get tested early on. I wonder if we
do worse later because we test everyone, including special ed kids, while
kids in some other countries can't even attend high school unless their
parents have money or they have passed rigorous tests. Do they test the
kids in other countries like they do in the USA? Does it include kids
tracked into trade schools and non-academic persuits? Maybe kids in some
of those countries have a very high drop-out rate in high school and you're
only testing the cream of the crop.

The main cross-country comparison I know of is Trends in International
Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) http://nces.ed.gov/timss/ .
Some of the reports there may answer your questions. Because of a
printing error in test booklets, the U.S. will not be included in a
reading test that 56 other countries are participating in

For Want of a Proofreader, or at Least a Good One, a Reading Exam Is
Lost
By SAM DILLON
New York Times, November 20, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/education/20test.html

"Akuvikate" wrote in message
...
On Nov 28, 11:10 am, Psalm Nuclei wrote:

Is a little tv here and there and a lick of a lollipop here or there
going to hurt our 6 month old?

I'm about as virulently anti-TV as they come, but even I don't think 5
minutes a day is a big deal.

I agree -- you need to relax. If you have issues with this babysitter
I don't think they're really about the lollipop and the 5 minutes of
TV. If those really are all the issues, then you just need to relax
and remember that kids aren't really all that fragile, otherwise we'd
all be completely messed up.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 4 years old
and something brewing, 4/08


Kate, wise Mamma. Well said.

Congratulations on your brew!

OK well thanks again for all your input.

I am trying to relax and enjoy the moment with our child and not think
so much about what he is or isn't doing.

It's just hard some times when I think about it, being at work away
from my child i feel out of control at times and it gets to me but i'm
trying.

On Nov 29, 6:07 am, Psalm Nuclei wrote:
OK well thanks again for all your input.

I am trying to relax and enjoy the moment with our child and not think
so much about what he is or isn't doing.

It's just hard some times when I think about it, being at work away
from my child i feel out of control at times and it gets to me but i'm
trying.

Well, bingo, that's what it's really about -- control and being away
from your kid, not a lick of a lollipop and 5 minutes of TV. And
those really are big issues that are hard to deal with. As far as
control goes, it helps to remember that no matter how attached you are
to your way of parenting, children turn out pretty well with all
different kids of childrearing. I think there's a benefit for kids to
interact with people who have different styles, as long as there's
some consistency (like stable parents and a stable caregiver). The
being away part is harder. It helps if you're confident that the life
you're living is what's best for the needs of the whole family given
your circumstances. If you're not sure of that, then it's worth re-
examining if there are changes you can make. If you are sure of that
then it's easier to accept the downsides of your situation because you
know they're more than compensated for by the upsides.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 4 years old
and something brewing, 4/08

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:07:46 -0800 (PST), Psalm Nuclei
wrote:

It's just hard some times when I think about it, being at work away
from my child i feel out of control at times and it gets to me but i'm
trying.

Working mothers often feel guilty, but they shouldn't. It's hard to
stop worrying, but if you develop your relationship with your care
provider and trust her, you will feel a lot better.

Of course, another option is to investigate if there is any way you
can stay home either full time or part time. Some jobs allow you to
work from home and if that is an option, you might have more time with
your child. And, analyzing your finances carefully, you might be
surprised to find that you could stay home full time depending on your
situation. It might mean changing your lifestyle in many different
ways though.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits