teenager breaking curfew

Stephanie wrote:

It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their
lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that.

I think that's one of those fundamental dichotomies in
the world: those who are happy to learn from others' mistakes,
versus those who just plain have to find out for themselves ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

"enigma" wrote in message
are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?

Yes, most of them are. You seem to be a rare bird in that you didn't stay up
late. When I was growing up on college campus, it was rare that anyone
wasn't out partying. Also, I have read that the brain of a teenager doesn't
mature until they are in their 20's. There are exceptions to every rule of
course, I was pretty mature for my age, but still got into a lot of trouble
and did things that I am surprised I am still alive these days.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Banty wrote:

At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? (Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daughters.)
College when there's just nothing you can do about it? Where's that transition
time?

I think it's a really individual choice, depending on the
individuals involved and the circumstances. I think for a lot of
kids, they never need a curfew and all that's appropriate is a rule
that they keep you informed of where they are and when they'll be back,
and they update you promptly if there are any changes. Other kids
may need a very strict curfew for some period of time, followed by
a gradual transfer of responsibility as they mature and demonstrate
appropriate behavior. For some, a curfew might show up only as a
consequence for inappropriate behavior. I'm not sure there is even
a one-size-fits-most point in time at which curfews go from appropriate
to inappropriate.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote:

At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? (Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for
daughters.) College when there's just nothing you can do about it?
Where's that transition
time?

I think it's a really individual choice, depending on the
individuals involved and the circumstances. I think for a lot of
kids, they never need a curfew and all that's appropriate is a rule
that they keep you informed of where they are and when they'll be back,
and they update you promptly if there are any changes. Other kids
may need a very strict curfew for some period of time, followed by
a gradual transfer of responsibility as they mature and demonstrate
appropriate behavior. For some, a curfew might show up only as a
consequence for inappropriate behavior. I'm not sure there is even
a one-size-fits-most point in time at which curfews go from appropriate
to inappropriate.

There isn't a one-size fits all approach in a particular community.
Parents and kids have different needs and personalities. In addition,
considering the many different types of communities in which people live
with differences in religious influence, area (south vs. midwest) and
density (rural vs. urban), schools, socioeconomic status and ethnic
variations, there can't be a one-size fits all approach.

Jeff

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Mar 11, 1:47*pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Stephanie says....

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka
Kammerer says...
enigma wrote:

*are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
*most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
*is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?
I think both sorts occur in abundance.

The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-)

They do? *I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. *Not
by a long shot.

That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up.

Actually, I'd disagree with that. *There are plenty of
folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's
not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno,
a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) *There are
also plenty who do. *Takes all sorts, and all that.

Best wishes,
Ericka

It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their
lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that.

Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still could
fall back on their parents if need be.

I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm still
around (meaning my kid is still around home). *It makes zero sense to me to have
it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the household.

There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at that age
(being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-).

But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had one
and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild enough to
need it but won't be cooperating.

At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? *(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daughters.)
College when there's just nothing you can do about it? *Where's that transition
time?

I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose
when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20.
I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line
that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and
to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents. Its also a
strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out* I
expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for
disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited
to restricting access to cash and vehicles.

Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when
most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents
for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people
deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they
can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews?

Barbara

On Mar 10, 8:28�pm, toto wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:25:17 GMT, Nan wrote:
I don't get the whole "at 18 they shouldn't have a curfew" thought
process as a generalization.

I think curfew depends on the situation. �An 18 or 19 year old who is
still in high school might need one at least on school nights, but I
also think that a senior in high school ought to be mature enough to
realize his or her own sleep needs.

Oh, man. I was an absolutely *middle-aged* teenager (the only time I
can even remember being out after midnight was accompanying my dad to
the opera, of all things), and even *I* had no judgment about sleep
needs.

--Helen

In article ,
Barbara says...

On Mar 11, 1:47=A0pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Stephanie says.=
..

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote:
In article , Ericka
Kammerer says...
enigma wrote:

=A0are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
=A0most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
=A0is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?
I think both sorts occur in abundance.

The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-)

They do? =A0I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. =A0Not
by a long shot.

That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up.

Actually, I'd disagree with that. =A0There are plenty of
folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's
not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno,
a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) =A0There are
also plenty who do. =A0Takes all sorts, and all that.

Best wishes,
Ericka

It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their
lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that.

Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still cou=
ld
fall back on their parents if need be.

I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm sti=
ll
around (meaning my kid is still around home). =A0It makes zero sense to me=
to have
it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the house=
hold.

There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at th=
at age
(being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-).

But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had =
one
and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild eno=
ugh to
need it but won't be cooperating.

At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew?
Marriage? =A0(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daught=
ers.)
College when there's just nothing you can do about it? =A0Where's that tra=
nsition
time?

I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose
when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20.
I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line
that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and
to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents.

The bright line is drawn by many areas of the law, first of all. In recognition
of where development is at that point for most.

Its also a
strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out*

I don't think everyone thinks so, or that anyone necessarily thinks so, and
didn't pose it as a strawman. Some here *have* said so, and I think that that,
when it's said, is contradictory. But I'm not arguing "those who support a
curfew at 18 also think x and I'll shoot that down." Because I don't think
that's what some others are saying.

I
expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for
disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited
to restricting access to cash and vehicles.

Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when
most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents
for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people
deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they
can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews?

Overnight camp under close adult supervision is quite a different thing from a
curfew. (Now, that *would* be a strawman - "you said curfews at 18 are bad
because that means kids can't go on overnight camp at age 8.")

Banty

On Mar 11, 10:47�am, Banty wrote:


But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had one
and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild enough to
need it but won't be cooperating.

See, I think of the curfew as a *privilege*, that comes after a long
time of not being allowed to go out at night on one's own at all. It
seems quite a natural progression to me that you allow behaviors of
various levels of risk to occur at different ages. At first kids are
too young to keep out of traffic or keep from getting lost -- they
shouldn't be out of an adult's sight. Later, they can venture further
and further, and at more and more varied times of day. Eventually they
can be out quite late at night, but not terrifically late. I don't see
anything odd about that. Plenty of quite trustworthy kids can be
airheads about time, especially when overtired.

And yes, the idea that you should suddenly not have a curfew at age
18, regardless of whether anything else at all has changed about your
circumstances, that *does* seem odd. Much more reasonable to make the
change when you go away to school and take on all sorts of new
responsibilities anyway. (In my kids' cases, that will be only just
after they turn 18 anyway, so a distinction without a difference.)

--Helen

enigma wrote:
Nan wrote in
[snip]
Realizing their own sleep needs is fine. I'm not talking
about setting a bedtime... I'm talking about when I think
they should be home and not out running around late.

are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when
i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well,
except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking
to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all
night to get there & back.
most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before
midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the
library until it closed at 1am.
is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party
types get more press?

I think possibly by the time you get to school leaving age - whether
that means going to college or to a job - the hours you and your friends
need to be up by vary a lot. When you're at school, you and your
friends have to be school at roughly the same time, so you would expect
to finish socialising at roughly the same time.

But once you start jobs: well I had jobs where I had to be there at 8am,
and I had jobs where I had to be there at 9.30am. Big difference in the
time I needed to go to bed.

Also at college: some people were scheduled for several hours a day of
lectures and lab work, whereas others were scheduled for about six hours
a week.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

Basically I think that by the time they are 18, all these issues
should have been worked out, or else the parents and young adult
should be talking about it. It is no longer the kind of thing where
you say 'no, you can't go out and play with your friends until you've
done your homework', or 'you have to be in bed by 10 because you have
school tomorrow'. That kind of thing should be ingrained already. A
parent should be working toward this from the day the kid was born.
And if there is still a problem, then it's probably too late. The kid
will have to find out for himself. Or not.

We all hope that our children will be the sort who,
having been brought up with proper values and parenting, will
be making good decisions by the time they're 18 years old.
On the other hand, there are obviously plenty of cases where
it doesn't work out that way, through failures of parenting
or any number of other issues. When that happens, I'm not
sure it is always the case that the only solution is to declare
it "too late" and let the kid learn from the school of hard
knocks, whatever the cost. Sometimes you don't have much choice,
but sometimes it's worth it to go all in and try to get the kid
through school or whatever other short term goal that may at
least make things more salvageable in the long run. There's

Oh absolutely. I'm not in favor of kicking the kid to the curb if
they don't make good decisions. What I meant and what I did with my
own children and what they have done with the ones of my grandchildren
that are older than HS is --- you want them to be in the house and be
available to them to help out if they need it. And you HOPE that they
will ASK if they need help. But you don't help them get these insights
by making rules and punishing or restricting them if they don't obey.
Mostly you are restricted to mentioning pros and cons of certain
actions.

no perfect answer at that point, but I don't think the best
option is necessarily to wash one's hands of the whole affair.
Eighteen is still a very young adult, and there's often still
a whole lot of room for parents to make an impact if needed.
I know too many kids whose parents washed their hands of them
in early adulthood who never got it all together, and too many
who made it through by virtue of parents who wouldn't give up
even after they had duly discharged their responsibilities to
get the kid to the age of majority for me to discount the potential
value of a firm hand when a young adult needs it. (Which is not
to say it's always the right strategy, of course.)

The problem comes when the parent won't let go at all, and keeps
pulling the chestnuts out of the fire so that the kid never has to
take responsibility. Either the child or the parent has to be an
ADULT. And smart enough to think through what the consequence will be
or what they WANT them to be for whatever it is that the kid is
setting up to do.

It does take quite some time for some children to grow up. My oldest
grandson decided college was too much work and came home and was
living at home. He had a job, but he had no driver's license and had
to be driven to where he could get public transportation. His mom
required that he pay some money towards room and board, but he really
wasn't getting it very well. It wasn't until she moved to another
country that he decided that he really did need to go to college and
then of course he had to pay for it himself.