2-year-olds reading?

Beliavsky wrote:
On Mar 14, 5:46 am, Chookie wrote:
[...]
Of course, there are children who learn to read very early, or who really want
to learn to read. There is no reason to prevent them. There is also no
reason to inflict reading lessons on little kids who would rather be doing
something else.

The "something else" for my 4yo son is often watching TV or playing
video games, in which case my wife and I have no qualms about making
him read or practice some math with us.

If you mean that literally – that you're making him do those activities
instead of things that he wants to do – then I'd be very concerned that
that might put him off ever wanting to do them. In the case of number
work that probably isn't such a big deal, since the odds are that
sitting down to do a few sums wasn't a hobby he was likely to take up
anyway. But reading for pleasure can be such a great joy that running
the risk of putting a child off it seems very sad indeed to me.

BTW, it also sounds as though you're setting up a false dichotomy there.
I can quite see not wanting your child to spend all day on TV or video
games, but there are plenty of other things the two of you can be doing
together, many of which are great for a child's development.

Think very, very carefully about why you want your child to
read early. Most reasons I have heard relate to the parent's desire for the
child to Get Ahead in some way. That is, it's all about the parent, not about
the child.

How does that follow? Successful people are more likely to be happy
people.

What criteria were used to measure success in whatever study it is
you're thinking of? And is there any work to show that pushing small
children to master academic skills earlier or to spend time on them when
they would rather be doing other things is likely to make them happier
in the long run than simply being willing to spend time with them
working with their interests? Again, I'd be very concerned it would
have the opposite effect.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

Beliavsky wrote:
On Mar 14, 5:46 am, Chookie wrote:

Of course, there are children who learn to read very early, or who really want
to learn to read. There is no reason to prevent them. There is also no
reason to inflict reading lessons on little kids who would rather be doing
something else.

The "something else" for my 4yo son is often watching TV or playing
video games, in which case my wife and I have no qualms about making
him read or practice some math with us.

If your 4yo only has TV watching, playing video games as
chosen leisure activities, I would ask why it is that there's
such a poverty of imagination--something that is critical to
success in many endeavors. Forced reading or other academic work
don't really address that issue.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Mar 16, 4:39 pm, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Beliavsky wrote:
On Mar 14, 5:46 am, Chookie wrote:
[...]
Of course, there are children who learn to read very early, or who really want
to learn to read. There is no reason to prevent them. There is also no
reason to inflict reading lessons on little kids who would rather be doing
something else.

The "something else" for my 4yo son is often watching TV or playing
video games, in which case my wife and I have no qualms about making
him read or practice some math with us.

If you mean that literally - that you're making him do those activities
instead of things that he wants to do - then I'd be very concerned that
that might put him off ever wanting to do them. In the case of number
work that probably isn't such a big deal, since the odds are that
sitting down to do a few sums wasn't a hobby he was likely to take up
anyway. But reading for pleasure can be such a great joy that running
the risk of putting a child off it seems very sad indeed to me.

I don't think our making him read regularly has soured him on it. TV
and the Internet are just more exciting. When I do turn the TV off and
have him read something with me (today, two issues of the Weekly
Reader for 1st graders, one about rain and the other about frogs), he
is interested in the material.

Regarding math, he asks us questions out of the blue that go beyond
what we have taught him, such as

-- if 8 - 6 = 2, what is 6 - 8 -- are there numbers smaller than zero?
-- is there a biggest number?
-- are there numbers between 3 and 4?

Instruction can stimulate more questions from a child.

BTW, it also sounds as though you're setting up a false dichotomy there.
I can quite see not wanting your child to spend all day on TV or video
games, but there are plenty of other things the two of you can be doing
together, many of which are great for a child's development.

Some of those have been foreclosed by the seemingly unending cold
weather, but
I do look forward to playing outside with and going swimming in a
nearby pond, as we did last summer. We do have lots of toys, but maybe
not some of the more sophisticated ones that a bright 4yo would enjoy,
such as a model train. However, the 2yo and 1yo would not let him play
with such toys in peace.

snip

How does that follow? Successful people are more likely to be happy
people.

What criteria were used to measure success in whatever study it is
you're thinking of?

Well, don't you agree that failing at work, at school, and in
relationships makes people unhappy? I have seen studies showing a
positive correlation between income and happiness, although the effect
is stronger when moving from a low to a medium income than a medium
income to a high one.

And is there any work to show that pushing small
children to master academic skills earlier or to spend time on them when
they would rather be doing other things is likely to make them happier
in the long run than simply being willing to spend time with them
working with their interests?

Some research has found that gifted children who are accelerated
academically have been more successful in their careers on average
than similar children who were not, without creating deficits in other
areas. One can look at http://www.nationdeceived.org/ . Of course
there is still the question of how success relates to happiness.

Hi --

As the parent of two highly gifted children, I've learned a few things
that may be of help for you. Of course, not all will apply in your
situation, so use what you want and ignore the rest.

1. Never praise your child by telling him how "smart" or "intelligent"
or "gifted" he is. Oddly enough, this sets up the wrong dynamic,
making him less inclined to work hard and take risks. Instead,
praise his hard work. There have been several articles that explain
this in some depth, including one a year or so ago in, I think, the
New York Times magazine section.

2. Gifted children are prone to being lazy and not paying attention.
Why not? Everything comes easy to them, so when they are young they
don't have an incentive to work hard at academics. (I suspect that
the reason academically accelerated kids do well in the long run is
that, having been thrown in over their heads, they've hard to learn
how to work hard and be organized, while their non-accelerated peers
don't learn this until too late.) So find reaasons for them to work
hard and to pay close attention. It can be a challenge ... This
paragraph of advice, by the way, doesn't apply until elementary school

3. Gifted children, just like other children, thrive on a variety of
experiences. In the pre-school years (up to about age 5) they are
best served by following their own interests, developing new
interests, and gaining experiences that involve, over time, all five
senses. Hands-on science museums are wonderful, as are trips to
local farms and museums, gardening in their own yards or in
flowerpots, playdates and trips to the playground, messy art
projects, and so forth. During these years, art is about process
rather than product, and workbooks (whether for reading, math, or
just coloring in) tend to constrain their ideas of what is
possible. Avoid them. (I'll write further on about non-workbook
ways to encourage math and reading skills.) Limit TV and computer
time to a maximum combined time of 30 minutes/day, but provide
plenty of imagination-based toys such as costume pieces, legos (the
big ones -- duplos -- are fine if there are babies in the house) or
playmobile.

OK. For reading skills: Identify the letters of the alphabet and find
them on signs, in books, etc. Move on to looking for high-frequency
words while you read to him. Don't push further than that until
elementary school UNLESS your child requests it. It is FAR more
important to develop a love of reading than to develop reading skills
until sometime during 1st grade. DO work on telling stories aloud (your
child tells you, I mean) and transcribing them for him. He can
illustrate them too. You can also transcribe a brief description of his
artwork on the front of the art, then hang them on the walls for the
family to enjoy. Always read aloud books that are more challenging than
he can read for himself, and continue this habit for as long as he'll
let you. (We still read aloud to our kids, now 10 and 12, always books
that they really couldn't read to themselves yet for reasons of archaic
language or content that requires more contextual knowledge than they'd
know on their own.)

For math, start by counting. Count steps on the staircase, cookies,
whatever. Count from one to ten, from uno to diez, from a to z, from
hydrogen up through the periodic table ... This gives a very good, basic
sense of numeracy. Count as high as you want to go. Then start
skip-counting. (Count by 2s, by 3s, etc.) For addition and
subtraction, add and subtract objects. Use buttons or pennies or
whatever. Only when the concepts of addition and subtraction are well
understood should you move on to memorizing math facts, and you can open
that by discussing with your child how l-o-n-g it takes to count these
basic addition facts, and how much easier it would be to learn more
about numbers if the facts were memorized. And then make the memorizing
a game. We found that, as the math became more complex, it was helpful
to let the kids play educational computer games such as Ready for
School. They liked these games until about age 8 or 9, at which point
they became jaded and don't want to play those games any more.

Finally, find something that your child is NOT naturally adept at, such
as playing a musical instrument, something that truly will require
work. In school achievement is, to some degree, subjective on the part
of the teacher, and work-in doesn't always correlate to grade-out. But
with an instrument, practice-in correlates highly to music-out and
progress, and it's easy to see on a week to week basic. Baseball skills
worked similarly for us.

If you're lucky, your school district will have a highly-gifted program
that really works. Ours has two classrooms in each of grades 4 and 5
for every 5-7 elementary schools. (So they're pulling 50 kids out of
about 500 into the highly-gifted program.) The curriculum is both
enriched and accelerated, and the teachers very experiences with the
particuar issues that face highly gifted kids, both academic and
social.

Of course, as I said at the start, your mileage may vary. But I hope
these thoughts help.

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi --

As the parent of two highly gifted children, I've learned a few things
that may be of help for you. Of course, not all will apply in your
situation, so use what you want and ignore the rest.

1. Never praise your child by telling him how "smart" or "intelligent"
or "gifted" he is. Oddly enough, this sets up the wrong dynamic,
making him less inclined to work hard and take risks. Instead,
praise his hard work. There have been several articles that explain
this in some depth, including one a year or so ago in, I think, the
New York Times magazine section.

2. Gifted children are prone to being lazy and not paying attention.
Why not? Everything comes easy to them, so when they are young they
don't have an incentive to work hard at academics. (I suspect that
the reason academically accelerated kids do well in the long run is
that, having been thrown in over their heads, they've hard to learn
how to work hard and be organized, while their non-accelerated peers
don't learn this until too late.) So find reaasons for them to work
hard and to pay close attention. It can be a challenge ... This
paragraph of advice, by the way, doesn't apply until elementary school

3. Gifted children, just like other children, thrive on a variety of
experiences. In the pre-school years (up to about age 5) they are
best served by following their own interests, developing new
interests, and gaining experiences that involve, over time, all five
senses. Hands-on science museums are wonderful, as are trips to
local farms and museums, gardening in their own yards or in
flowerpots, playdates and trips to the playground, messy art
projects, and so forth. During these years, art is about process
rather than product, and workbooks (whether for reading, math, or
just coloring in) tend to constrain their ideas of what is
possible. Avoid them. (I'll write further on about non-workbook
ways to encourage math and reading skills.) Limit TV and computer
time to a maximum combined time of 30 minutes/day, but provide
plenty of imagination-based toys such as costume pieces, legos (the
big ones -- duplos -- are fine if there are babies in the house) or
playmobile.

One caveat on workbooks-you may find your child LIKES them. I was furious
when my husband came home with my daughter and an ABC workbook from the
Target dollar section when she was about 18 months old-until he said that
she'd asked for it, and I sat and watched her do most of that workbook by
herself, obviously having fun doing so.

She has a small collection of workbooks now, which she's asked for, and
she'll occasionally pull one out and do a few pages. Not every page in the
book, and when I notice a book is mostly full and has been discarded, I toss
it. It seems to be a soothing activity for her, just like reading mystery
novels is for me. She's pretty eclectic in her selections-we have preschool
colors books which are well below her level, and first grade ones which I
know she can't handle the writing in, but she's the one who's made the
choice.

My daughter similarly likes card sets and posters-but it's always been her
choice (and usually is from the Target dollar section or Dollar tree. It's
kind of ironic that someone who is so into "Developmentally appropriate"
should have a child who loves "playing school" as a favorite activity-but
she does.


OK. For reading skills: Identify the letters of the alphabet and find
them on signs, in books, etc. Move on to looking for high-frequency
words while you read to him. Don't push further than that until
elementary school UNLESS your child requests it. It is FAR more
important to develop a love of reading than to develop reading skills
until sometime during 1st grade. DO work on telling stories aloud (your
child tells you, I mean) and transcribing them for him. He can
illustrate them too. You can also transcribe a brief description of his
artwork on the front of the art, then hang them on the walls for the
family to enjoy. Always read aloud books that are more challenging than
he can read for himself, and continue this habit for as long as he'll
let you. (We still read aloud to our kids, now 10 and 12, always books
that they really couldn't read to themselves yet for reasons of archaic
language or content that requires more contextual knowledge than they'd
know on their own.)

For math, start by counting. Count steps on the staircase, cookies,
whatever. Count from one to ten, from uno to diez, from a to z, from
hydrogen up through the periodic table ... This gives a very good, basic
sense of numeracy. Count as high as you want to go. Then start
skip-counting. (Count by 2s, by 3s, etc.) For addition and
subtraction, add and subtract objects. Use buttons or pennies or
whatever. Only when the concepts of addition and subtraction are well
understood should you move on to memorizing math facts, and you can open
that by discussing with your child how l-o-n-g it takes to count these
basic addition facts, and how much easier it would be to learn more
about numbers if the facts were memorized. And then make the memorizing
a game. We found that, as the math became more complex, it was helpful
to let the kids play educational computer games such as Ready for
School. They liked these games until about age 8 or 9, at which point
they became jaded and don't want to play those games any more.

I love the idea of "counting" the periodic table-given the way DD loves
absorbing complicated words (state names, country names, dinosaur names,
bones), I think she'd really enjoy the elements.

One thing I'd like to add-allow your child pretty free reign in the library
(within reason). I was surprised when my daughter moved to wanting us to
read poetry to her at just under 2, and when she moved to non-fiction for
her read-alouds at about 2 3/4-but she's been very consistent in having us
read aloud in one section for awhile, then abandoning it and moving on-but
she often then picks up reading in it by herself.

My daughter also will often ask us to read books to her which she can easily
read herself-but what I've noticed is that when she has us read the same
book again and again, her fluency and inflections, and just general
understanding of similar books seems to increase dramatically. So again,
following what she wants seems to provide what she needs. I admit it's a
little strange to be reading "Happy Birthday, Dear Dragon" to a child who is
independently reading non-fiction books about dinosaur anatomy and Magic
treehouse books, but it seems to serve a need for her, even if that need is
just to be able to cuddle on mommy or daddy's lap and be a baby again for a
short time.

Finally, find something that your child is NOT naturally adept at, such
as playing a musical instrument, something that truly will require
work. In school achievement is, to some degree, subjective on the part
of the teacher, and work-in doesn't always correlate to grade-out. But
with an instrument, practice-in correlates highly to music-out and
progress, and it's easy to see on a week to week basic. Baseball skills
worked similarly for us.

If you're lucky, your school district will have a highly-gifted program
that really works. Ours has two classrooms in each of grades 4 and 5
for every 5-7 elementary schools. (So they're pulling 50 kids out of
about 500 into the highly-gifted program.) The curriculum is both
enriched and accelerated, and the teachers very experiences with the
particuar issues that face highly gifted kids, both academic and
social.

Of course, as I said at the start, your mileage may vary. But I hope
these thoughts help.

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Beth Kevles wrote:
Hi --

As the parent of two highly gifted children, I've learned a few things
that may be of help for you. Of course, not all will apply in your
situation, so use what you want and ignore the rest.

1. Never praise your child by telling him how "smart" or "intelligent"
or "gifted" he is. Oddly enough, this sets up the wrong dynamic,
making him less inclined to work hard and take risks. Instead,
praise his hard work. There have been several articles that explain
this in some depth, including one a year or so ago in, I think, the
New York Times magazine section.

New York Magazine had an article on this last year.

http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

Clisby

Beliavsky wrote:

We do have lots of toys, but maybe
not some of the more sophisticated ones that a bright 4yo would enjoy,
such as a model train. However, the 2yo and 1yo would not let him play
with such toys in peace.

?! Certainly, older children need to understand that they
have to make *some* compromises for the sake of younger children,
but I don't think they should be denied access to age appropriate
experiences simply because they have younger sibs. It's the
responsibility of parents to find time and space for the older
child to do things appropriate to his age and development on
occasion and set up the household so that the little ones stay
out of his stuff.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Clisby" wrote in message
...
Beth Kevles wrote:
Hi --

As the parent of two highly gifted children, I've learned a few things
that may be of help for you. Of course, not all will apply in your
situation, so use what you want and ignore the rest.

1. Never praise your child by telling him how "smart" or "intelligent"
or "gifted" he is. Oddly enough, this sets up the wrong dynamic,
making him less inclined to work hard and take risks. Instead,
praise his hard work. There have been several articles that explain
this in some depth, including one a year or so ago in, I think, the
New York Times magazine section.

New York Magazine had an article on this last year.

http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

Clisby
The problem I see with this recommendation is that, unless your child is
very non-communicative in public, there's no good way to avoid getting the
message from everyone else if they are at all out of the norm. I mean, my
husband and I never made a big deal about DD's reading-but that doesn't mean
that she hasn't figured out that other children her age can't read yet, and
that she's smart because she does-because every single time she's read
something in public, the response she gets from others is "Wow! You're
really smart!" And I suspect she's going to hear it a lot more before she
starts kindergarten.

Fortunately, for her there's still a lot of areas where she has to work that
I can praise her-getting dressed with all clothing items going the correct
way is a struggle for a 3 yr old with a gross motor delay, and when she
draws a picture that's recognizable as something more than a scribble, which
is very hard for her right now, she just beams.

On Mar 17, 7:30�am, Clisby wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:
Hi --

As the parent of two highly gifted children, I've learned a few things
that may be of help for you. �Of course, not all will apply in your
situation, so use what you want and ignore the rest.

1. �Never praise your child by telling him how "smart" or "intelligent"
� � or "gifted" he is. �Oddly enough, this sets up the wrong dynamic,
� � making him less inclined to work hard and take risks.. �Instead,
� � praise his hard work. �There have been several articles that explain
� � this in some depth, including one a year or so ago in, I think, the
� � New York Times magazine section.

New York Magazine had an article on this last year.

http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

Clisby

That technique totally backfires, though, if you have the bad luck to
praise the child for "working hard" on something that they didn't work
hard on at all. That happened to me constantly as a child (mostly from
teachers) and I can't say it did me any good -- if anything, it told
me that someone like me didn't ever *have* to work hard in order to
give the impression of doing so, and while I knew better, it wasn't a
good idea to have planted in my head. (Plus, sometimes hard work isn't
even the best option: it would be better to do something a clever way
that took less work.)

I think the best way to praise a child's work is to take a proper
interest in it. Knowing someone cares and thinks your stuff is worth
reading or looking at is huge. Would an author be happy to hear a fan
say "You must have worked so hard on this! I bet you're proud of
yourself"? Or would they rather hear "The part when X did Y was so
cool!"?

--Helen

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
One caveat on workbooks-you may find your child LIKES them. I was furious
when my husband came home with my daughter and an ABC workbook from the
Target dollar section when she was about 18 months old-until he said that
she'd asked for it, and I sat and watched her do most of that workbook by
herself, obviously having fun doing so.


Okay, I am sorry, I just can't let this go. You were furious because he
bought a workbook for her?? Why?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)