Personal space

In article J6fWa.32571$YN5.27261@sccrnsc01,
"toypup" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
x-no-archive:yes "toypup" wrote:


"dejablues" wrote in message
...
I agree. It's Allisons room, Allisons stuff, let her police it. If she
needs
a lock and her own key, so be it.
If one of my older sons complains because one of the younger ones got
into
his stuff, I say "Oh well, I guess you didn't care enough about it to
put
it
where he couldn't get it!" I refuse to monitor their belongings.

What if there's no place the older one could put it where the younger
ones
can't get at it?

Where do you put things the children shouldn't get into? There's
always a way to do it otherwise it wouldn't be a safe house to be in.

When they are toddlers, it's easy. When they are older, there aren't many
places you could put something that they can't reach with some ingenuity.
When they are older, I don't expect that I should be trying to preteenproof
something. I expect them to stay out of what they are supposed to stay out
of, though I would lock up a gun (but I would never own one).



Depending upon your kids, you might end up rethinking this. In some
households, you may need a locking liquor cabinet, for example, or even
to lock up perscription and OTC drugs.

When DD#2 ended up hospitalized after a deliberate overdose of a
perscription drug, it was extremely hurtful to be asked how she got into
them like I was some sort of horribly unfit parent for not having them
locked up (she was 14 at the time). Like you, it had not occurred to me
to not just expect her to stay out of stuff like that -- but it should
have, given that she had been diagnosed as clinically depressed. (And
yes, she was being treated, but these things take time -- she's still
making stupid choices about a lot of things, but the depression is under
control.)

Now, we have a safe, and drugs are generally kept in it -- and the
amount of liquor we're likely to have around is pretty insignificant,
but when we do it is hidden.

meh

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Why isn't she motivated by money? Do you notice a difference in her as
compared to your older daughters? At age six, maybe she has been a year in
kindergarten?
I don't necessarily think that kids should be money -motivated, but my
children always knew that money was worth something and were very willing to
work for it and spend it long before they ever went to school . My youngest
is 5.5 and he is well able to spend a dollar, and understand what it takes
to earn that dollar!


"Sue" wrote in message
...
Silvasurfa wrote in message
If she's old enough to have an allowance she might understand being
forced to pay replacement cost on broken items.

If Allison is old enough to be responsible with a lock (ie, not lock
her door at night when quick emergency access might be needed in case
of fire etc) then a lock on her door might be a workable idea.

I'd try to stay out of their squabbles as much as possible... nothing
more annoying than being an enforcer.

As far as people's personal space goes, there are probably people out
there who would think this cruel, but I'd find someone who doesn't
need to be in a primary carer role to her, and who is willing to play
the bad guy, who can get a bit stern with her when she tries crawling
up on them etc, so she can have an experience of being firmly put in
her place. Strict stern old maiden aunts exist for a reason y'know.

We have cut out the allowance, but they are able to do extra things around
the house to earn money, but at six, Kara isn't motivated by money yet to
have any. But I do agree that if she had the money that some things should
have been replaced. I will research the lock. As I mentioned, I need a
skeleton key or perhaps I can just put a hook on the outside, but Kara
would
be able to get a stool and unlock it.

As for a stern Aunt, lol that is funny but I do know what you mean.
Unfortunately, I don't have a stern aunt, but we have a family friend that
doesn't have children and is not 100% comfortable with kids, and he has
told
her quite a few times in a stern voice to get down, but it isn't making a
difference.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Tom P wrote:

Steve, I keep reading your post and I coulnd't agree less with you. First,
blaming the older child for not putting things away can only teach Kara that
it will be OK to take the neighbor's ball because he left it on his lawn for
anybody to take it.
--------------------------
I'm not blaming the child, give her the choice, a lock on her room
or the right to beat her sister if she gets into her stuff. That's
the way the world works for both of them later.


As for beating the child or destroying toys, these messages are violent and
are not going to teach the child to conflict resolution. It seems to me
that these methods are a little bit archeic.
--------------------------
Beating people for crimes against others is NOT violence and works
fine. They stop. Beating people for anything else is violence.
Steve


"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Sue wrote:

Hi everyone,

I need some consequences and/or how to teach my 6-year-old, Kara, to
stay
out of her older sister's (Allison) room. Kara takes her belongings
without
asking and it either ends up getting torn up or at the very least, it
really
upsets Allison. We are trying to teach her to ask first before she just
takes something, but nothing we are doing is working and it has become a
huge negative process. It is causing Allison to be mean to Kara and it
is
causing us great stress. Kara is having a hard time understanding
personal
space and I am at a loss on how to teach it. It seems the my other two
girls
learned personal space without too much involvement from me. Kara is a
very
touchy/feeling kid, but she takes it too far. She doesn't know when to
quit. Most people end up getting upset with her and then I feel
horrible.
Very close friends are able to tell her to get down and sometimes she
listens, but most of the time it involves me having to get her away from
whoever she is bugging. Any suggestions for me? Thanks so much.
--
Sue
mom to three girls
-----------------
Ever heard of a lock and key?
Ever took one of HER favorite toys and smashed it in front of her?
Offer to do so. She'll get the msg.
Steve

Sue wrote:

Nikki wrote in message
I'm not a huge fan of reward systems but it might wotk this time. There
really is no huge negative here. She gets the object, she gets her
sibling
upset (which IIRC from when I was a kid is not a bad thing at all ;-) and
she causes a ruckus, which isn't so bad either! If she can stay out of
her
sisters room for xxx amount of time she earns a special reward (activity
or
item depending on kid). If Kara does better at staying out is Allison old
enough to bite the bullet and invite Kara in for a special play session in
her room every once in a while. Really dote on her little sister. They
could trade and then you could help Kara set up a special play session in
her room that she would invite Allison to. That might help her get a
grasp
on ownership. I hope you get some more experienced answers!


Hi Nikki,

You know I have been putting some thought into a reward system for this and
I did try it yesterday and as someone mentioned, Allison said that isn't
fair. Why should she get something for staying out of my room. So then I
replied, well then you get a reward if you don't hit her when she does come
in your room. So I am not sure if that strategy is going to work. I may need
to refine this somehow, lol. I did try yesterday and told Kara that if she
stayed out of Allison's room until dinner time that she would get a bubble
gum. She didn't make it. It was only about an hour later and we discovered
that Kara went into Allison's room and took out her stuff. So one day
doesn't make it I know. And I did have a talk with Allison yesterday about
trying to let Kara come in every once in a while and playing with her.
Allison's things are interesting to Kara so I can understand that they are
new to her, but shouldn't Kara have some restraint as well?
--
Sue
mom to three girls
------------------
Kara should be beaten on each occasion she enters Allison's room
without permission. Allison should also have a lock on her room
for when she's not there or wishes to lock it.
Steve

Rosalie B. wrote:

x-no-archive:yes "toypup" wrote:


"dejablues" wrote in message
...
I agree. It's Allisons room, Allisons stuff, let her police it. If she
needs
a lock and her own key, so be it.
If one of my older sons complains because one of the younger ones got into
his stuff, I say "Oh well, I guess you didn't care enough about it to put
it
where he couldn't get it!" I refuse to monitor their belongings.

What if there's no place the older one could put it where the younger ones
can't get at it?

Where do you put things the children shouldn't get into? There's
always a way to do it otherwise it wouldn't be a safe house to be in.

This isn't an issue of personal space (in my mind) but an issue of
other people's property.

It sounds like from the OP that the older two girls were able to deal
with it between themselves, possibly just by being 'mean' to each
other.

I would let Allison do her thing, and if she has to be mean to Kara,
let her. That's a good natural consequence that doesn't involve the
parents. Not that she should physically hurt her little sister (and
why does she only do this with Allison's stuff and not with the other
sister), but shouting or being upset will get the idea across better
than anything the parents could do.

The only other thing I would advise is that if Kara came to me for
sympathy, I would totally not give it to her. "You broke Allison's
xyz, and she's justifiably annoyed at you and I am too. You know
better".

This isn't an uncontrollable 2 year old anymore. Stop making excuses
for her.

My granddaughter and grandson (age 7 and 10) are here now, and the
little girl comes to her mother fake crying because her brother is
doing this or that or the other thing. My DIL doesn't seem to see
that a) she should tell the brother to stop and enforce it and b) that
she shouldn't encourage the girl to whine and tattle.


grandma Rosalie
-----------------
Doesn't mean she doesn't have the absolute right to be left alone.
It just means that her rights have been disregarded often enough
that she has had to learn to do it as an act. In adult life, people
don't usually have to repeatedly pretend to be harmed to the police
to get them to make someone else LEAVE YOU THE **** ALONE!!

You're dishonoring her. Protect her, she has that right.
Steve

"Tom P" wrote in message
news
Steve, I keep reading your post and I coulnd't agree less with you.
First,
blaming the older child for not putting things away can only teach Kara
that
it will be OK to take the neighbor's ball because he left it on his lawn
for
anybody to take it.

I know people who think like that. I have a coworker who takes other
people's things that are in a common closet if they are not there at the
time he asks them to claim it. If they are not there, he figures it's his
to keep.

Sue wrote:

Hi Nikki,

You know I have been putting some thought into a reward system for
this and I did try it yesterday and as someone mentioned, Allison
said that isn't fair.

Ha :-) Makes sense. See, I'm glad people with more experience chimed in!
Actually in reading the thread I like the lock idea the best. Hope you get
it all worked out.

but shouldn't Kara have some restraint as
well?

Hopefully that will come huh? Allison might prefer she learn restraint in
some other way though...with someone elses stuff! Good luck!!


--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:09:25 -0700, "Sue"
wrote:

Other than that, there
isn't anything in specific that she wants that would motivate her to do her
chores to get her allowance. Kara just completed kindergarten and will start
1st grade in three weeks (wow). Kara can spend the money just fine, but I
can't use that over her head though because she doesn't care. My other girls
now is another story. They will do chores willingly to get their allowance
and definitely knows how to spend it, lol.

Imo, allowance should not be tied to chores.

Chores should be expected because children are part of the family and
adults need help to keep the household running smoothly. Children
should have a say in what chores they do and when they do them.
Again, imo, children should take care of *themselves and their things*
as much as possible, so their own rooms and possessions should be
their responsibilty from an early age. Other than this chores should
be assigned on the basis of age and preference and with a view to
helping kids learn about what it takes to keep a house up and a view
toward helping them to feel they are valuable members of the family.
Also, it seems a good idea to allow children to decide to swap chores
when they wish in order to schedule other events in their lives as
they get older.

Allowance, otoh, should be a way for children to learn how to manage
money and to budget. It should start early and increase with age and
should include some money for fixed expenses that they may choose
to use differently, but which will not be funded by other sources. My
own children's allowances once they were in middle school included
their lunch money and their busfares to and from school (public
transportation). My son often chose to walk and use his bus money
for baseball cards, my daughter often chose to pack her lunch and
save her lunch money and to use that for other things. In high
school, both also had clothing money and could choose how to
spend that. My son didn't like to shop, so he often asked me to
just pick up pants in his size and different colors (cords and sweats
not jeans) and t-shirts with sports logos. His budget for clothing
was generally totally used up. My daughter, otoh, liked to shop in
resale shops and often managed to save some of her clothing
budget to spend on meals out or special music cds, etc.

This is not to say that some chores cannot be paid for. In the case
of chores which go above and beyond the normal chores, it may be
a good idea to offer to pay children to take them on. But there are
certain chores that I think should be done without this.

This is only my opinion. Take what you like from it and discard the
rest.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

What I mean, when we were giving allowance for specific chores, I couldn't
say your not getting your allowance this week because you didn't do your
chores. She didn't care one way or the other if she got some money or not.
She, however, did go through a month period of where she wanted The Happy
Family Barbie and she did save for it and bought it. Other than that, there
isn't anything in specific that she wants that would motivate her to do her
chores to get her allowance. Kara just completed kindergarten and will start
1st grade in three weeks (wow). Kara can spend the money just fine, but I
can't use that over her head though because she doesn't care. My other girls
now is another story. They will do chores willingly to get their allowance
and definitely knows how to spend it, lol.

--
Sue
mom to three girls

dejablues wrote in message
...
Why isn't she motivated by money? Do you notice a difference in her as
compared to your older daughters? At age six, maybe she has been a year
in
kindergarten?
I don't necessarily think that kids should be money -motivated, but my
children always knew that money was worth something and were very willing
to
work for it and spend it long before they ever went to school . My
youngest
is 5.5 and he is well able to spend a dollar, and understand what it takes
to earn that dollar!


"Sue" wrote in message
...
Silvasurfa wrote in message
If she's old enough to have an allowance she might understand being
forced to pay replacement cost on broken items.

If Allison is old enough to be responsible with a lock (ie, not lock
her door at night when quick emergency access might be needed in case
of fire etc) then a lock on her door might be a workable idea.

I'd try to stay out of their squabbles as much as possible... nothing
more annoying than being an enforcer.

As far as people's personal space goes, there are probably people out
there who would think this cruel, but I'd find someone who doesn't
need to be in a primary carer role to her, and who is willing to play
the bad guy, who can get a bit stern with her when she tries crawling
up on them etc, so she can have an experience of being firmly put in
her place. Strict stern old maiden aunts exist for a reason y'know.

We have cut out the allowance, but they are able to do extra things
around
the house to earn money, but at six, Kara isn't motivated by money yet
to
have any. But I do agree that if she had the money that some things
should
have been replaced. I will research the lock. As I mentioned, I need a
skeleton key or perhaps I can just put a hook on the outside, but Kara
would
be able to get a stool and unlock it.

As for a stern Aunt, lol that is funny but I do know what you mean.
Unfortunately, I don't have a stern aunt, but we have a family friend
that
doesn't have children and is not 100% comfortable with kids, and he has
told
her quite a few times in a stern voice to get down, but it isn't making
a
difference.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Yep that is why we discontinued connecting allowance with regular chores,
mostly because most of the mess is theirs so we decided not to pay them for
cleaning up their own mess.

We are now adding extra things around the house so they can earn extra
money.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

toto wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:09:25 -0700, "Sue"
wrote:

Other than that, there
isn't anything in specific that she wants that would motivate her to do
her
chores to get her allowance. Kara just completed kindergarten and will
start
1st grade in three weeks (wow). Kara can spend the money just fine, but I
can't use that over her head though because she doesn't care. My other
girls
now is another story. They will do chores willingly to get their
allowance
and definitely knows how to spend it, lol.

Imo, allowance should not be tied to chores.

Chores should be expected because children are part of the family and
adults need help to keep the household running smoothly. Children
should have a say in what chores they do and when they do them.
Again, imo, children should take care of *themselves and their things*
as much as possible, so their own rooms and possessions should be
their responsibilty from an early age. Other than this chores should
be assigned on the basis of age and preference and with a view to
helping kids learn about what it takes to keep a house up and a view
toward helping them to feel they are valuable members of the family.
Also, it seems a good idea to allow children to decide to swap chores
when they wish in order to schedule other events in their lives as
they get older.

Allowance, otoh, should be a way for children to learn how to manage
money and to budget. It should start early and increase with age and
should include some money for fixed expenses that they may choose
to use differently, but which will not be funded by other sources. My
own children's allowances once they were in middle school included
their lunch money and their busfares to and from school (public
transportation). My son often chose to walk and use his bus money
for baseball cards, my daughter often chose to pack her lunch and
save her lunch money and to use that for other things. In high
school, both also had clothing money and could choose how to
spend that. My son didn't like to shop, so he often asked me to
just pick up pants in his size and different colors (cords and sweats
not jeans) and t-shirts with sports logos. His budget for clothing
was generally totally used up. My daughter, otoh, liked to shop in
resale shops and often managed to save some of her clothing
budget to spend on meals out or special music cds, etc.

This is not to say that some chores cannot be paid for. In the case
of chores which go above and beyond the normal chores, it may be
a good idea to offer to pay children to take them on. But there are
certain chores that I think should be done without this.

This is only my opinion. Take what you like from it and discard the
rest.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits