NCSS is a GEM!

"Judi" wrote in message
oups.com...

Do people really find that the book works? I have a 13 month old and I
haven't slept for more that two hours at a time since he was born. Now
that I'm back to work I'm near hysterical. He wakes the most ever now!
Every 45 minutes-hour!!! The only sleep I get is sitting up nursing (he
won't nurse with me laying down) and usually not at all..... so uh
yeah, any more success stories with this book?

I read it with ds, and though he didn't have any major sleep problems, I
think it helped us to *avoid* any serious problems. I read it when ds was
about 2 months old, and most of the suggestions are for implementing after 4
months, but you can use some basic things earlier to get them on a good
track. I really liked the book and have recommended it many times to
people.

Judi writes:

Do people really find that the book works? I have a 13 month old and I
haven't slept for more that two hours at a time since he was born. Now
that I'm back to work I'm near hysterical. He wakes the most ever now!
Every 45 minutes-hour!!! The only sleep I get is sitting up nursing (he
won't nurse with me laying down) and usually not at all..... so uh yeah,
any more success stories with this book?

I must write up our success story, but um, yeah. I read NCSS before DS was
born, and I found it useful for working out what my approach was going to
be and thinking about how not to get into bad habits. However, DS's was
never a "normal baby" sleep wise. Basically until he was 6 months he slept
pretty well at night (woke 2 or 3 times between say 11 and 6), but hardly
at all during the day (even as a newborn, he hardly napped). Then he
switched, and started napping like a normal baby and waking every hour at
night... That continued until he was about your DS's age. From then on,
things gradually improved, and since he was 17mo or so he's been mostly
sleeping through the night. The final improvement, when it came, was very
sudden and as far as I could see not caused by anything I changed. I did
move him into his own room around 14mo, in the hope that it would help, but
it didn't really. I can't imagine having survived without being able to
nurse lying down, though - sympathy!

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

Anne Rogers wrote:
That's great, I may try and get hold of a copy to read myself,
Nathanael has never been the best sleeper, but nor is he a problem
and Ada is a dream, but I keep recommending it to other people, so I
probably should know what I'm talking about!

Do you want to borrow a copy? I'm pretty sure I've got one lying around at
home unwanted - I read it and liked what it had to say but YoungBloke seemed
to sort out his sleping before it turned into a problem.

--
YoungBloke: 2 years, 83cm, 11.5kg and still BF

"Sidheag McCormack" wrote in message
...
Judi writes:

Do people really find that the book works? I have a 13 month old and I
haven't slept for more that two hours at a time since he was born. Now
that I'm back to work I'm near hysterical. He wakes the most ever now!
Every 45 minutes-hour!!! The only sleep I get is sitting up nursing (he
won't nurse with me laying down) and usually not at all..... so uh yeah,
any more success stories with this book?

I must write up our success story, but um, yeah. I read NCSS before DS was
born, and I found it useful for working out what my approach was going to
be and thinking about how not to get into bad habits. However, DS's was
never a "normal baby" sleep wise. Basically until he was 6 months he slept
pretty well at night (woke 2 or 3 times between say 11 and 6), but hardly
at all during the day (even as a newborn, he hardly napped). Then he
switched, and started napping like a normal baby and waking every hour at
night... That continued until he was about your DS's age. From then on,
things gradually improved, and since he was 17mo or so he's been mostly
sleeping through the night. The final improvement, when it came, was very
sudden and as far as I could see not caused by anything I changed. I did
move him into his own room around 14mo, in the hope that it would help,
but
it didn't really. I can't imagine having survived without being able to
nurse lying down, though - sympathy!


Sidheag,
The MonkeyMan is almost 5 months and has suddenly started waking every hour
and napping like a normal baby. I would like to stop it, and go back to
sleeping at night, not during the day thing. Any ideas?

Child writes:

Sidheag, The MonkeyMan is almost 5 months and has suddenly started
waking every hour and napping like a normal baby. I would like to stop
it, and go back to sleeping at night, not during the day thing. Any
ideas?

Err... wait a year? Sorry - I can sympathise, but I never found a solution,
other than deciding it was developmental and I couldn't think of anything
to try that wasn't going to distress Colin and I wasn't prepared to do
that; that's how we ended up just waiting for natural development to fix
it. Which it eventually did, but emphasis on the eventually...

FWIW we tried the Pantley "gentle removal" thing pretty seriously, and
ended up very disillusioned with it, so perhaps twopenceworth would be not
to bother with that (except that your baby may vary, of course).

Maybe a better twopenceworth is that I think the babies/children I've read
about who ended up with *serious* sleep difficulties - sleeping less in
total than they needed, being always tired, sleep very disjointed into the
preschool years - have mostly been those whose parents "tried everything".
One has to be very careful about the direction of the causality, but I
think there's a possibility that a lot of it is that people start
non-intuitive regimes that they aren't totally committed to, and then go
changing things repeatedly, and everyone ends up very confused. Sleep
training works for some families without causing lots of distress to
anyone, but I think one crucial thing is that parents confidently do
something consistent. So I'd say, if you're not convinced in your heart
that sleep training is for you, then just follow your instincts and wait
for time to sort it out. Don't do something in between. I do actually
wonder whether even the Pantley gentle removal stuff we tried may have been
part of the problem rather than part of the solution. That's really why if
I were doing it again I wouldn't even try it.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

"Sidheag McCormack" wrote in message
...
Child writes:

Sidheag, The MonkeyMan is almost 5 months and has suddenly started
waking every hour and napping like a normal baby. I would like to stop
it, and go back to sleeping at night, not during the day thing. Any
ideas?

Err... wait a year? Sorry - I can sympathise, but I never found a
solution,
other than deciding it was developmental and I couldn't think of anything
to try that wasn't going to distress Colin and I wasn't prepared to do
that; that's how we ended up just waiting for natural development to fix
it. Which it eventually did, but emphasis on the eventually...

FWIW we tried the Pantley "gentle removal" thing pretty seriously, and
ended up very disillusioned with it, so perhaps twopenceworth would be not
to bother with that (except that your baby may vary, of course).

Maybe a better twopenceworth is that I think the babies/children I've read
about who ended up with *serious* sleep difficulties - sleeping less in
total than they needed, being always tired, sleep very disjointed into the
preschool years - have mostly been those whose parents "tried everything".
One has to be very careful about the direction of the causality, but I
think there's a possibility that a lot of it is that people start
non-intuitive regimes that they aren't totally committed to, and then go
changing things repeatedly, and everyone ends up very confused. Sleep
training works for some families without causing lots of distress to
anyone, but I think one crucial thing is that parents confidently do
something consistent. So I'd say, if you're not convinced in your heart
that sleep training is for you, then just follow your instincts and wait
for time to sort it out. Don't do something in between. I do actually
wonder whether even the Pantley gentle removal stuff we tried may have
been
part of the problem rather than part of the solution. That's really why if
I were doing it again I wouldn't even try it.


I'd agree completely that it seems far more likely to me that kids who have
serious sleep problems cause their parents to "try everything" rather than
vice versa. I am reminded of reading in "what to expect in the first year"
about how kid who co-sleep are more likely to have sleep disorders late.
Well, DUH, how do you think they got into their parents beds in the first
place?

I think I am not committed to anything at this time - except for maybe
drinking less coffee. Drank alot this week. Its not soon enough to change
anything, and its stupid to make rash decisions when this tired!

Sidheag McCormack wrote:

FWIW we tried the Pantley "gentle removal" thing pretty seriously, and
ended up very disillusioned with it, so perhaps twopenceworth would be not
to bother with that (except that your baby may vary, of course).


Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003




I'm very disollusioned with the gentle removal thing, too. The times
when he can actally get to sleep after the removal, the sleep only lasts
20 min or so. Now nothing is working unless he's hungry enough to
feed to sleep. Bleh.

Jo

In article ,
Jo wrote:

FWIW we tried the Pantley "gentle removal" thing pretty seriously, and
ended up very disillusioned with it, so perhaps twopenceworth would be not
to bother with that (except that your baby may vary, of course).

I'm very disollusioned with the gentle removal thing, too. The times
when he can actally get to sleep after the removal, the sleep only lasts
20 min or so. Now nothing is working unless he's hungry enough to
feed to sleep. Bleh.

A 20-min sleep followd by a need to eat more is standard for Bfed babies.
There is a hormone related to fat digestion which wears off about 20 mins
after a feed, and the baby then asks for more. I call it the 20-minute top-up.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

"Jo" wrote in message
...
I'm very disollusioned with the gentle removal thing, too. The times when
he can actally get to sleep after the removal, the sleep only lasts 20 min
or so. Now nothing is working unless he's hungry enough to feed to sleep.
Bleh.

Ugh, I agree. I've just come to expect frequent wakings from my 5 month old
and am prepared to wait it out. I enjoy the nights when he surprises me and
sleeps more, but I don't expect it. We tried NCSS...but no real improvement
with nighttime sleep (did help him start taking at least 1 20 min nap during
the day though so yay!)

Melissa
Mom to Connor born 05/24/05

Chookie wrote:
In article ,
Jo wrote:


FWIW we tried the Pantley "gentle removal" thing pretty seriously, and
ended up very disillusioned with it, so perhaps twopenceworth would be not
to bother with that (except that your baby may vary, of course).


I'm very disollusioned with the gentle removal thing, too. The times
when he can actally get to sleep after the removal, the sleep only lasts
20 min or so. Now nothing is working unless he's hungry enough to
feed to sleep. Bleh.


A 20-min sleep followd by a need to eat more is standard for Bfed babies.
There is a hormone related to fat digestion which wears off about 20 mins
after a feed, and the baby then asks for more. I call it the 20-minute top-up.


Yup, Cholesystekinine (no idea how to spell it)... CSK for short. Ok,
so when he wakes after 20 min in the cot I should try to feed him again
- I'll give that a go! Thanks!

Jo